[Veiko]

Eric
I ask you as very experienced mechanic. I dont have anyone else to ask. No friends no mechanics.

I swapped the hoses and bleeded the brakes and i still have this problem. Now i have that problem on the left also but not as much as in right side.
If i just squeeze front right hose the pedal gets hard when idling, but not so hard. Still falls like 3-4cm into floor.
But if i also squeeze the front left hose then its completely rock hard.
Previously it was only front right that changed this.

I looked at the bleeders and wheels, i dont see leaks. Fluid doesnt disappear anywhere.
The rear drum brake cylinders leak a bit (if i remove their dust cap slightly), i can see a little bit of fluid there. But nothing big.

I ordered 2 new front hoses, they were cheap, it will take 2 days before i get them and when i will get i will replace immediately. I dont know if it will change anything or not, but at least i can tell that its not the front hoses fault.

[u]Pumping the pedal when engine is running reduces the pedal sinking. And it stays at this position until i release the pedal, wait a bit and then press again, then it sinks again.
If i pump it again reduces the amount how much pedal sinks.[/u]

So Eric imagine i would get the car to your shop with new hoses and bleeded system.
And pedal still sinks when engine runs.

What would be the next thing you would do or try?

I must tell you that im very tired, frustrated and disappointed, i just dont know what else to do.
Sometimes i just want to dump this car, wash my hands and thats all.
But i have replaced so many things in it, it drives really well, i want to try to clean the injectors that hopefully removes the little hesitation it has etc..

But the brakes. 2 weeks wasted and nothing, they just get worse.

Please Eric, tell me what you would do next in your shop on this car?
You may say, replace the master, but if after that pedal still sinks?

Thank You for all the previous help Eric.

[Veiko]

Maybe, but i took right caliper and put it to the left and left to the right.
Problem was still at right.

Of course i should replace them, but maybe i can just replace hose atm and will be ok.
Who knows. I dont even know how much the hose will cost.

I know how it will gonna be, i replace the hose or hoses, then the next thing goes lol.
And the whole vacation of mine just goes into repairing of the car.
I cant drive anywhere.

[Veiko]

Maybe, but i took right caliper and put it to the left and left to the right.
Problem was still at right.

Of course i should replace them, but maybe i can just replace hose atm and will be ok.
Who knows. I dont even know how much the hose will cost.

I know how it will gonna be, i replace the hose or hoses, then the next thing goes lol.
And the whole vacation of mine just goes into repairing of the car.
I cant drive anywhere.

[Veiko]

Eric, sorry for posting here but since there is no video about hoses, i want to ask what you think about the next problem as experienced mechanic.

Short story: i had sticky calipers, cleaned, rebuilt with kit, put back, all OK.
Bleeded brakes and suddenly when engine starts brake pedal sinks to the floor.

Tried bleeding again, pumped 3 litres of fresh fluid through the system etc etc, nothing.
As soon as engine starts pedal sinks.

Then bleeded master, watched how you did it etc. Just tried on the car first.
Nothing changed.
Decided to take it off, took it apart, cleaned from inside and outside, a bit new brake fluid on bushings and inside, put back together, bench bleeded many times, mounted back on the car, bleeded, started car, pedal sinks to the floor. So nothing…

Found a tip online to squeeze all 4 flex hoses on car with vise grips and press pedal, after each test remove one vise grip and press pedal again to see if its still hard or sinks.

Removed all 3, until then pedal was rock hard, even with engine running.

Got to the last fourth one, thats the caliper with broken bleeder i have talked about previously.
Ok, pedal is rock hard atm, 3 vise grips removed.

Now final grip to remove from FRONT RIGHT flex hose.
As soon as i removed that final vise grip the pedal sinked to the floor.
Put the vise back and pedal was hard again.

Swapped the right/left caliper, nothing changed. Still only front right hose.
Tried other hoses, nothing changed. It was just the front right hose that always changed, if pedal sinked or not.

Yes i squeezed the front right and didnt squeeze the front left, pedal was still hard.
Right one was only guy what changed things.

I was not very gentle with these hoses when removed calipers for rebuilding and then bleeded them.
So i guess i killed one of them.

It was too late, i couldnt swap the flex hose, i wanted to put right one to the left and left one to the right, to see if problem goes to the front left.

Tomorrow i will test.

So what you think guys here? Wtf is that? Bad hose?
I used 2 bolts and closed master outlets (2 of them) with these bolts. The pedal was rock hard, even with engine running.
As soon as i removed bolts and connected the actual 2 lines that go the wheels the pedal sinked.

Yes, i did hold my leg on pedal for very long time, it didnt sink slowly or not even a litte bit.
Just the free play the pedal must have.

And i found out that mysterious hose that plays there.

Thanks guys and please share any of your thoughts on this thing. Every little bit will help.
The store gave me 3 days to figure out whats wrong and if its bad master they will get it to me.
But its very expensive and maybe i can get done just with flex hose.

[Veiko]

Eric, sorry for posting here but since there is no video about hoses, i want to ask what you think about the next problem as experienced mechanic.

Short story: i had sticky calipers, cleaned, rebuilt with kit, put back, all OK.
Bleeded brakes and suddenly when engine starts brake pedal sinks to the floor.

Tried bleeding again, pumped 3 litres of fresh fluid through the system etc etc, nothing.
As soon as engine starts pedal sinks.

Then bleeded master, watched how you did it etc. Just tried on the car first.
Nothing changed.
Decided to take it off, took it apart, cleaned from inside and outside, a bit new brake fluid on bushings and inside, put back together, bench bleeded many times, mounted back on the car, bleeded, started car, pedal sinks to the floor. So nothing…

Found a tip online to squeeze all 4 flex hoses on car with vise grips and press pedal, after each test remove one vise grip and press pedal again to see if its still hard or sinks.

Removed all 3, until then pedal was rock hard, even with engine running.

Got to the last fourth one, thats the caliper with broken bleeder i have talked about previously.
Ok, pedal is rock hard atm, 3 vise grips removed.

Now final grip to remove from FRONT RIGHT flex hose.
As soon as i removed that final vise grip the pedal sinked to the floor.
Put the vise back and pedal was hard again.

Swapped the right/left caliper, nothing changed. Still only front right hose.
Tried other hoses, nothing changed. It was just the front right hose that always changed, if pedal sinked or not.

Yes i squeezed the front right and didnt squeeze the front left, pedal was still hard.
Right one was only guy what changed things.

I was not very gentle with these hoses when removed calipers for rebuilding and then bleeded them.
So i guess i killed one of them.

It was too late, i couldnt swap the flex hose, i wanted to put right one to the left and left one to the right, to see if problem goes to the front left.

Tomorrow i will test.

So what you think guys here? Wtf is that? Bad hose?
I used 2 bolts and closed master outlets (2 of them) with these bolts. The pedal was rock hard, even with engine running.
As soon as i removed bolts and connected the actual 2 lines that go the wheels the pedal sinked.

Yes, i did hold my leg on pedal for very long time, it didnt sink slowly or not even a litte bit.
Just the free play the pedal must have.

And i found out that mysterious hose that plays there.

Thanks guys and please share any of your thoughts on this thing. Every little bit will help.
The store gave me 3 days to figure out whats wrong and if its bad master they will get it to me.
But its very expensive and maybe i can get done just with flex hose.

[Veiko]

What to do then? The hose comes from the top and connects to the side of the caliper.
Yes bleeder is at the top of the hose. Hose is below the bleeder.

Tomorrow i will try the other method, i just dont have enough fluid to do it atm. I mean the 2 person method. Using a wood stick or something between pedal and seat and then opening the bleeders.

But what about the caliper with broken bleeder? Gravity method you say..
I have read about it. I guess i will try this on that broken one.

Like i said, i really hope that it’s just air in system.
I have inspection coming in august and brakes must work perfectly.

I would be very happy if i could get my “hard pedal” back after i bleed again.
If i have to buy new MC or brake booster then my vacation is ruined.

EDIT: i had a little of brake fluid left and decided to take a try today. But again after doing 3 wheels i realized i did it wrong way again: opened the bleeder, put the hose to bleeder and other end into bottle with some fluid, pumped the brakes 4-7 times (didnt count) put a stick between pedal and seat until i didnt see any bubbles (there was still (again) some air bubbles coming out) and closed the bleeder.

But i wanted to pump the pedal, put a stick between seat and pedal and open the valve. Until i dont see any bubbles. This way i can see the bubbles myself also, i dont have to run around the car.

Anyways, please give some more suggestions, what you would do, what you would try.
You are experienced mechanics here.
Tomorrow i will continue.

Btw, my repair manual has a 3 step brake booster operating test instructions. I did the steps in my car and like manual says, if i pass all three, then booster performance is satisfactory.
So it is.

But after this wrong bleeding i did and testing, it seems brakes got better.
Pedal still falls almost to the floor but it seems a little bit less now and i really feel the brakes are alot better.
I skipped the wheel with broken bleeder.

Hoping for the best

[Veiko]

What to do then? The hose comes from the top and connects to the side of the caliper.
Yes bleeder is at the top of the hose. Hose is below the bleeder.

Tomorrow i will try the other method, i just dont have enough fluid to do it atm. I mean the 2 person method. Using a wood stick or something between pedal and seat and then opening the bleeders.

But what about the caliper with broken bleeder? Gravity method you say..
I have read about it. I guess i will try this on that broken one.

Like i said, i really hope that it’s just air in system.
I have inspection coming in august and brakes must work perfectly.

I would be very happy if i could get my “hard pedal” back after i bleed again.
If i have to buy new MC or brake booster then my vacation is ruined.

EDIT: i had a little of brake fluid left and decided to take a try today. But again after doing 3 wheels i realized i did it wrong way again: opened the bleeder, put the hose to bleeder and other end into bottle with some fluid, pumped the brakes 4-7 times (didnt count) put a stick between pedal and seat until i didnt see any bubbles (there was still (again) some air bubbles coming out) and closed the bleeder.

But i wanted to pump the pedal, put a stick between seat and pedal and open the valve. Until i dont see any bubbles. This way i can see the bubbles myself also, i dont have to run around the car.

Anyways, please give some more suggestions, what you would do, what you would try.
You are experienced mechanics here.
Tomorrow i will continue.

Btw, my repair manual has a 3 step brake booster operating test instructions. I did the steps in my car and like manual says, if i pass all three, then booster performance is satisfactory.
So it is.

But after this wrong bleeding i did and testing, it seems brakes got better.
Pedal still falls almost to the floor but it seems a little bit less now and i really feel the brakes are alot better.
I skipped the wheel with broken bleeder.

Hoping for the best

[Veiko]

Eric or somebody who knows.

I have bleed my system already 2 times. My factory repair manual book shows exact bleeding order

The order is this (arrow is the front of the car):

< 4 1 < 2 3 Car stops but only when i press my pedal practically to the end, then the car stops. When pressing the brake pedal slowly or when brakes do not apply yet, i hear some "sssss" at the pedal. Sucking air from somewhere? Hoses? Like i said i have bleed 2 times already, im using one man bleeding pipe, it doesnt need a reservoir with brake fluid. I just dont know what to do anymore. Maybe once i let the brake fluid level too low in brake reservoir, maybe it sucked air into it. But at the bleeders i dont see any air in kit hose. I saw once some very small air bubbles. My car repair manual also shows how to bleed master cylinder, it says with helper (friend) its easy procedure. But i havent done this yet. Any ideas what else to do, what to check, what to look? Fluid is new, i already pumped 2 litres of fresh brake fluid thorough the system Manual says i have to start the engine (idle) and then bleed the system in order above. 2 times i have bleed but still pedal goes to the floor practically, before brakes apply. This is all when idling or driving when engine runs. I dont have ABS, if that matters. When engine is stopped then brake pedal goes hard after 1-2 hits, i mean it doesn't "fall" through the floor. Rear brake pads are changed in last year, i opened the drums , cleaned up springs, pads so all moves. And yesterday i replaced front brake pads and discs and rebuilt the calipers so all moves freely. EDIT This the way i bleed the system. I use simplest one man brake bleeding kit. Just a hose (pipe) with small thing (one way valve or something) that lets fluid / air go into one direction but not backwards, like diode: like this https://www.bullseyecarparts.co.uk/category/detail/1-tools/1-tools-2-vehicle-service/2-vehicle-service-3-brake-service-tools/3-brake-service-tools-4-brake-bleeding/vizibleed-one-man-brake-bleed-kit

1) Start the engine (idling)
2) I put a wrench on the bleeder
3) Then im connecting the kit hose to the bleeder
4) Then i open the bleeder
5) I pump the pedal, till i dont see any bubbles in hose. Only clear fluid.
6) I close the bleeder screw.

And do that for all the wheels.

Now i have been surfing around and see that im doing this a bit wrong.
Pedal must be under pressure always and then open the bleeders and see if air comes out.

It could be right because i may still have air somewhere in system That doesnt want to come out like this. I have to buy more brake fluid before i try this. i used a wood stick between pedal and front seat when i tried something. I dont remember even what i tried.

Also the kit i have may be faulty. It's old (5-6 years) and was cheapest out there when i bought it. But its second time i bleed with it.

I had front and back hoses opened at same time for few days, when i was rebuilding the calipers etc. I just hope that there just still air inside the system and not that i have to replace the booster or MC. So expensive parts.

Dunno, lots of things

Please, any tips would help.

[Veiko]

Eric or somebody who knows.

I have bleed my system already 2 times. My factory repair manual book shows exact bleeding order

The order is this (arrow is the front of the car):

< 4 1 < 2 3 Car stops but only when i press my pedal practically to the end, then the car stops. When pressing the brake pedal slowly or when brakes do not apply yet, i hear some "sssss" at the pedal. Sucking air from somewhere? Hoses? Like i said i have bleed 2 times already, im using one man bleeding pipe, it doesnt need a reservoir with brake fluid. I just dont know what to do anymore. Maybe once i let the brake fluid level too low in brake reservoir, maybe it sucked air into it. But at the bleeders i dont see any air in kit hose. I saw once some very small air bubbles. My car repair manual also shows how to bleed master cylinder, it says with helper (friend) its easy procedure. But i havent done this yet. Any ideas what else to do, what to check, what to look? Fluid is new, i already pumped 2 litres of fresh brake fluid thorough the system Manual says i have to start the engine (idle) and then bleed the system in order above. 2 times i have bleed but still pedal goes to the floor practically, before brakes apply. This is all when idling or driving when engine runs. I dont have ABS, if that matters. When engine is stopped then brake pedal goes hard after 1-2 hits, i mean it doesn't "fall" through the floor. Rear brake pads are changed in last year, i opened the drums , cleaned up springs, pads so all moves. And yesterday i replaced front brake pads and discs and rebuilt the calipers so all moves freely. EDIT This the way i bleed the system. I use simplest one man brake bleeding kit. Just a hose (pipe) with small thing (one way valve or something) that lets fluid / air go into one direction but not backwards, like diode: like this https://www.bullseyecarparts.co.uk/category/detail/1-tools/1-tools-2-vehicle-service/2-vehicle-service-3-brake-service-tools/3-brake-service-tools-4-brake-bleeding/vizibleed-one-man-brake-bleed-kit

1) Start the engine (idling)
2) I put a wrench on the bleeder
3) Then im connecting the kit hose to the bleeder
4) Then i open the bleeder
5) I pump the pedal, till i dont see any bubbles in hose. Only clear fluid.
6) I close the bleeder screw.

And do that for all the wheels.

Now i have been surfing around and see that im doing this a bit wrong.
Pedal must be under pressure always and then open the bleeders and see if air comes out.

It could be right because i may still have air somewhere in system That doesnt want to come out like this. I have to buy more brake fluid before i try this. i used a wood stick between pedal and front seat when i tried something. I dont remember even what i tried.

Also the kit i have may be faulty. It's old (5-6 years) and was cheapest out there when i bought it. But its second time i bleed with it.

I had front and back hoses opened at same time for few days, when i was rebuilding the calipers etc. I just hope that there just still air inside the system and not that i have to replace the booster or MC. So expensive parts.

Dunno, lots of things

Please, any tips would help.

[Veiko]

Thank You Eric and others for answering.
I found a video and got a great tip from there, use some wood stick between brake pedal and seat. Then open the valve (line). Let the air out and close the line, pump again and press with stick again etc.
I don’t have helper.

If i look into my car factory repair manual it shows that the last one to bleed is front right and this is where i have the broken bleeder. I will do that last. I wanted to use the order you told in the video but i must do it this way because of broken bleeder. I didn’t broke it, sadly somebody else did it before me because he/she didn’t know probably how to deal with rusted bleeders. But i was able to open all the rest 3 bleeders without breaking them, i will replace them and will bleed the system. I will not bother with repairing / drilling. Unless i cant bleed the system this way for some very weird reason..

The reason i am doing this all is that i have rebuilt my calipers, they were sticking a bit.
I already rebuilt the passenger side caliper.

Cleaned up all the components and replaced all the bushings.
For the cleaning i must thank you again Eric, because of the video you made, it was the video where you got some very rusted rear brakes and used a wheel brush disc to clean things up.
Very useful tips in there. I will let you and others know how it went. It will take few days, have to buy some things first, like brake cleaner and new bleeders.

All the best.

[Veiko]

Thank You Eric and others for answering.
I found a video and got a great tip from there, use some wood stick between brake pedal and seat. Then open the valve (line). Let the air out and close the line, pump again and press with stick again etc.
I don’t have helper.

If i look into my car factory repair manual it shows that the last one to bleed is front right and this is where i have the broken bleeder. I will do that last. I wanted to use the order you told in the video but i must do it this way because of broken bleeder. I didn’t broke it, sadly somebody else did it before me because he/she didn’t know probably how to deal with rusted bleeders. But i was able to open all the rest 3 bleeders without breaking them, i will replace them and will bleed the system. I will not bother with repairing / drilling. Unless i cant bleed the system this way for some very weird reason..

The reason i am doing this all is that i have rebuilt my calipers, they were sticking a bit.
I already rebuilt the passenger side caliper.

Cleaned up all the components and replaced all the bushings.
For the cleaning i must thank you again Eric, because of the video you made, it was the video where you got some very rusted rear brakes and used a wheel brush disc to clean things up.
Very useful tips in there. I will let you and others know how it went. It will take few days, have to buy some things first, like brake cleaner and new bleeders.

All the best.

[Veiko]

Hello Eric.

Some user here told that you have video about bleeding brakes with broken bleeding valve?
https://ericthecarguy.com/forum/8-Service-and-Repair-Questions-Answered-Here/44281-is-it-necessary-to-replace-a-broken-bleeder-valve#54774

Is this video still available and how its called?
I have front right bleeder broken in my caliper and i need to bleed it. Because i rebuilt my caliper.
Dont want to buy new caliper and / or bleeder yet. If i could bleed this one like it is atm i would be happy.

Also in this video about brake fluid change you say somewhere in the middle that if its broken, dont bother with fixing it etc..
“Just crack the line.”

So how to bleed it properly? I cant close the bolt so quickly, while pressing pedal and tightening the bolt. And if i get to it, it already sucks the air in again.

[Veiko]

Hello Eric.

Some user here told that you have video about bleeding brakes with broken bleeding valve?
https://ericthecarguy.com/forum/8-Service-and-Repair-Questions-Answered-Here/44281-is-it-necessary-to-replace-a-broken-bleeder-valve#54774

Is this video still available and how its called?
I have front right bleeder broken in my caliper and i need to bleed it. Because i rebuilt my caliper.
Dont want to buy new caliper and / or bleeder yet. If i could bleed this one like it is atm i would be happy.

Also in this video about brake fluid change you say somewhere in the middle that if its broken, dont bother with fixing it etc..
“Just crack the line.”

So how to bleed it properly? I cant close the bolt so quickly, while pressing pedal and tightening the bolt. And if i get to it, it already sucks the air in again.

[Veiko]

Hello all. My first post.
I have also broken bleeder valve and didnt want to create new topic so i searched and found this topic.

May i ask is that video about bleeding with broken valve still available?
How its called?

If it matters i have front right caliper bleeder valve broken.
Now i would like to see that video or instructions how to do it properly?!

I would not change the calipers atm. And not the valve. If i can bleed like the way it is atm, i would be happy.

Thanks.
And in the meanwhile i will try to find that video by myself.

[Veiko]

Hello all. My first post.
I have also broken bleeder valve and didnt want to create new topic so i searched and found this topic.

May i ask is that video about bleeding with broken valve still available?
How its called?

If it matters i have front right caliper bleeder valve broken.
Now i would like to see that video or instructions how to do it properly?!

I would not change the calipers atm. And not the valve. If i can bleed like the way it is atm, i would be happy.

Thanks.
And in the meanwhile i will try to find that video by myself.

[Author]

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