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Woah nice interface update we have here!
I’m bringing you guys an update after 5 month!I just went to a garage today, a reputable one recommended by the APA(Automobile Protection Association) here in Canada.
They did confirmed that it was a rod bearing issue and I could drove it forever
and that’s it won’t aggravate. This is probably true since it’s been a year already and the engine is still running.However they mention that the power issue I’m having is completely normal!
“It has power, what’s wrong with it?”
I know that there’s something wrong with it.
I have driven other same civic from the same generation, same engine, and it is not like that.I don’t believe an engine can run correctly if it has a bearing issue. I mean, what’s a bearing for if you could drive with a faulty one?
Found one on ebay:
http[url=http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400268647301#ht_3427wt_905:xri1cwk2]://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400268647301#ht_3427wt_905
F[/url]or that price, do you think it will do the job?Also, are oil pressure gauges really that worthless?
Let’s say I want to monitor the health of my engine, later on, in my everyday driving. Installing a gauge in my cabin, whether it is a mechical or electrical, would be useless and meaningless?
Or did you mean they can do the job but not are not as accurate as testers for diagnostic purposes?Thanks
From this, is it correct to conclude that rebuilding an engine and buying a rebuild (That’s what I meant by rebuild) engine is the same price?
About the oil pressure gauge and tester, what is the difference between them? Won’t a mechanical oil pressure gauge do just fine as a oil pressure tester or is it that the latter is more accurate?
Thanks.
Yes, I have done a compression test, but I only did a dry one, and I got good results around 200 psi for all cylinders. I didn’t however did a leak down test since it seems there wasn’t any leak to look for.
Thanks everyone, that’s what I intend to do, replace the engine, but I’m hesitating between a rebuild one and a used low engine engine. Any experience with those? Warranty, reliability, cost?
Also, I’m currently looking for a mechanical oil pressure gauge. The thing is, should I look for “Oil pressure gauge”, those that you can also put in you cabin, or should I look for “Oil pressure tester” that are basically made for diagnostics purposes?
Is the latter more accurate and better for diagnosing engine problems?What is the price range I should look for when buying either of these products?
I found these:
http://www.equus.com/Product/6244/2%27% … -Gauge#top
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/access … 59573_0_0_First is a gauge that can be installed in the car and the other seems to be made for diagnostic purposes.
What do you think?Although I intend on replacing the engine, I have to make sure this engine really does have indeed an internal mechanical problem before doing anything.
To ScannerDanner, I don’t intend on letting the engine die, it just doesn’t feel for me to drive like this especially for a small 4-cylinder engine like mine, there’s just too much power lacking.
Btw, what does “OP” mean? Old Post?
Thanks
Well, there wasn’t that much “gunk”.
The oil itself only seemed dirtier and darker than it was when draining the oil without using any engine oil flush/cleaner.
My problem didn’t get any worse after the engine flush. Instead, the engine seemed to run smoother, quieter, but noise didn’t disappear.I have one question though, is it possible to replaced or do some minor bottom end repairs without removing the engine itself, but instead removing the oil pan and working beneath the car. I thought if that was possible, it would cost less in labor.
It is still hard for me to believe the engine is toasted, I mean it runs! Few days ago, I started the car after the engine had been resting for quite some time, and drove it for about 15-20 min, car ran quite well, still rough and a bit noisy when flooring to the redline almost, but no knocking. Even when the engine was warm, it didn’t do it. It’ really irregular, the noise doesn’t start always at the same time, some days, sometimes, it takes longer for the noise to appear even if the engine has warmed up.
Anyways, I’ll take the car to a mechanic to get it diagnosed to get a better idea.
Thanks again.
About the knocking at the bottom, I don’t know if it sounded really dramatic when I posted about it few days ago, but I believe it’s not that bad, the engine still runs, I have get from point A to point B without any issue. It’s just not a pleasure to drive the car. It is knocking, but not as much as in other videos where it seems like there’s a empty can getting thrown all around in the engine, not that loose. Just wanted to clarify.
I might do another video soon enough.Yeah, it’s a shame I live in Canada, in fact, it’s a shame, for me, that every good thing is located in the US. As a matter of fact, I did some research yesterday about JDM shops and found a really good one apparently, based on my reviews from other forums and it’s located in California. The name of that shop is HMotorsOnline.com (http://www.hmotorsonline.com/). There’s nothing but goods thing about them. Clean, low miles engine, in perfect shape.
Just spreading the word here C8-)
I had some hopes for JDM shops in Canada and I found out many horror stories about people getting ripped off whether it is on the labor or the engine itself.
Toromont CAT, but I read the FAQs in Black-Stones Labs website and they really seem like they offer really good service:Yes, we do ship to Canada. No charge. I’ll send a kit out this week.Kristin Huff
Blackstone Labs—————————–Anyways, I won’t do anything on the engine for now. I’ll be open to other suggestions and feedback.
Once again, thank you guys, especially you HBVX, you really seemed devoted to my problem L:D.The moment I realized where the the knocking was occurring, I had a pretty good idea of the condition of the engine and that I probably need to swap the engine . Since then, I’m actually relieved, because now, at least, I know pretty much what the problem is.
I’ve bought the car and it has been 15k miles since I had it. We are the kind of people who really take care/pride in their vehicle, we never neglected oil changes. We’ve already done 3 oil changes, and the second time we even did an oil flush, so previous owner or owners are the culprit. =/So yeah, I’m probably going to swap the engine at some point, when I’ll have the $$. One problem is, we rarely go to shops to do our repairs, and I don’t know where to start when looking for an engine. Junk yard? JDM shops?
I’ve found one shop where they can swap the whole engine along with its other parts such as Intake/Exhaust Manifold, Power steering pump, A/C Compressor and alternator for around 1,100$ labor include for non-vtec engine. 500$ for labor.http://montreal.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicl … Z270785976
Same shop, this deal is for a vtec engine.
Problem is, I don’t know the shop, I heard on some forums they had a pretty decent reputation, but I don’t have any concrete reliable info on them.
What do you guys think?I just saw the video, it is worth replacing that part or the whole engine because who knows if other parts have been damaged and I also heard the cost for bottom-end engine work is pretty expensive and it’s always better to swap the engine itself.
Money wise, is it better to rebuilt or to swap another engine?For now, I’ll just drive as usual, not revving the engine too much so that it won’t aggravate the problem even faster.
I’m also curious about one thing.
I know it’s pretty obvious, but I’d like to know.
How does engine bearing affect performance? How do worn out bearings compromise engine performance?
I’m having good compression test results, but I’ve got noise and performance issue. Worn out bearing(s) may be the answer.
I’m just curious to know more about how an engine works.
My guess, worn bearing = power from each cylinder is lost when transferred from the cylinder to the crankshaft.
Power at crankshaft lost means less power going to flywheel and thus to transmission and wheels?Thanks
I have to apologize for misleading you a little bit until now.
I’ve climbed my Civic onto some ramps and did what you told me, inspect thoroughly the noise all around the engine and to my surprise, the noise does not come from the top end, but from the bottom. In fact, when I put myselft underneath the engine and asked someone to rev the engine, and I heard some “slap” coming from below, at the back of engine, near the transmission, it seems like it’s occurring at the 4th cylinder.
I tried many times, and the noise was much more obvious at the bottom than it was a the top of the engine. I also tried feeling the engine, I felt way more vibration at the bottom than at the top. The vibration seemed to travel to other parts of the car at the bottom such as the transmission, I could feel it.To conclude, the reason why I thought it was at the top was probably because the noise was traveling along the back of the engine, making its way to the top.
We also removed the primary O2 sensor, but we couldn’t a thing due to the exhaust being so noisy. The exhaust noise was masking other less noticeable noise: internal noises. I didn’t try driving the car since I was afraid to bother the neighbors and get some unwanted attention from cops, I mean, it really was loud, like it was exploding or something! I really don’t want to do that unless it is really but really necessary.
Perhaps when I’ll have some more time, I’ll try to film/record the noise from beneath the engine, it’s really obvious from there.
Replying to previous post:
To spelunkerd:
No I haven’t tried running on high octane fuel, but I did try cleaning the injectors with some product you dump into the fuel tank.
It didn’t do anything. I will try running on higher octane, but I doubt it will really show any changes, besides, fuel isn’t cheap, especially now!About the timing belt job, I don’t want to sound overconfident, but I believe we did a good job, I double, triple checked everything before putting everything back, the timing mark on the crank pulley and the engine block and the one on the cam pulley weren’t an exception. We even rotate the crank pulley by hand (with a rachet) counter-clockwise many times (around 2 or 3 revolution of the cam pulley). Timing was still dead on every time. When starting the car for the first time, it felt great! Only for few minutes though =( Usual noise started appearing.
I even verified the timing with a timing light before doing the timing belt job, and it was dead on. Engine behavior was still the same after the timing belt replaced, so I believe the job was done correctly and the timing hasn’t changed. I know that when the timing is off, even by a tooth, it’s really dramatic, from what I’ve heard, for example, the car won’t climbed to highway speed, etc…There’s no ignition timing to be set on this car, so I guess timing is good.
From the analysis I did today, I’m starting to think a bearing is the issue.
To HBVX:
I have a pretty good idea how to mesure the oil pressure, what I don’t have is the tool. Wouldn’t it be simpler if I went to a shop so they can do it? I think that money wise, it’s better, since the specific tool for doing that isn’t cheap.I can see now the advantage of disconnecting each injectors one at a time. To do that, I would have to remove the resonator, the airfilter, the airbox along with it. In this car, the intake manifold isn’t located at the top, but a bit at the bottom of the engine, it’s not that accessible.
Also, wouldn’t it flood the engine with fuel if I unplug each coil one at a time and revved to 2000 rpm? Note that the noise appears after 2500rpm, which means even more fuel will get injector into the cylinder, isn’t that bad?And yes, I used the correct spark plug, I think directly from Honda.
About Black-Stones Labs, I e-mailed them, waiting for a response.
Once again everyone, never taking anything for granted,
Thanks!Again, I thank you guys for being kind enough to give that much effort and attention to my issue.
I’ll start by replying to each posts.
To HBVX:
I surely will do a UOA, I think that for 25$, it’s really worth trying especially if we can gather more evidence.
Since the day we have it, we’ve changed the oil about 3 times, and even flushed out all the gunk that was inside with an engine oil flush.
After many oil changed, I think the engine sounded more smooth and quiet than it was the day we had it, but the noise was and is still there.Yeah, I was thinking about doing that too, but didn’t how, I guess I need to go to shop in order to test the oil pressure, that could tell more about the overall wear of the engine. Is it something that can be done at home with the right tool?
I guess you’re right about the previous bad maintenance of the engine/car, I had my doubts too. I mean, the engine doesn’t have that much mileage on it, and the car stills looks good on the outside, how could a car like this run so bad? Answer: Bad maintenance/ abuse and etc.
About the oil analysis from blackstones-labs, I live in Canada, where is this lab located exactly, and does it accept shipment from everywhere in North America? How about the procedure, I pay 25$, they send me an oil collecting kit, I fill out the from, send it back, and they send the results ?
Back to this engine noise, I did not thoroughly inspect everywhere around the engine with someone revving the engine to bring out that specific noise, but I tried revving it myself by playing with the throttle and the location of the noise is really obvious, I hear something knocking at the very top of the engine and I can feel it with my hand the valve cover but I don’t know exactly where.
I once lied beneath the engine while the engine while running, without revving anything, it was dead silent, it seems that most of the engine noise comes from the top.
However, I will still try that, we can never be too sure.I already did a valve adjustment on the engine and I had to remove the spark plug. They seemed fine to me, of course I’m not an expert, but it was dry, it didn’t have any weird color, odor, or liquid on it. I should mention that we replaced them right away few days after we bought the car which means they were almost new when we removed it for the valve adjustment. But I will try that too: remove them again and take some pictures. And no I did not try running with a higher octane, by the way, here, the highest we can have is I think 94. Does it have to be above a certain octane level in order to have some changes ?
To clarify, the noise never disappears completely, there is just less symptoms and noise, but I have to say it’s irregular. Sometime, when starting the car in a “perfect” weather, usually at night, during summer, not too hot but not cold either, at around 2-3pm when I leave from my friend’s place, the car really runs really good, smoother engine and less noise, and somewhat better power, it’s like the engine’s sweet spot. But that only last about 5min, as the engine warms up, power starts decreasing and noise starts appearing slowly but surely. Weird huh? It seems to behave that way when the engine is really but really cold.
It also occurred after a timing belt job, the engine was left overnight for 2 days. After we’ve started the car for the first time, the engine was amazingly quiet and smooth when revving, we thought it was a tensionner/ timing issue and that we’ve finally solved the problem. However, the noise started appearing slowly after 10-15 of idle. At that point, I was starting to believe that it was really an internal mechanical noise, and not external.
Also need to mention that, the timing wasn’t off, it was dead on before and after the timing belt replacement. In total, we replaced the timing belt, the tensionner, and the water pump and it didn’t really make a difference afterwards, only peace of mind.Removing the O2 sensor isn’t difficult, in fact, we did it when we replaced the exhaust manifold, I will surely do it.
To Six6vetteguy:
I once tried to isolate the noise, thinking that it could have been a cylinder misfiring, I unplugged one at a time each Ignition coil from cylinder 1 to 4 (this car has individual ignition coil for each cylinder) and the engine did react each time, it felt weaker each time a coil was unplugged, but it didn’t do much. Also, the noise isn’t that loud that you can tell it at idle, but to me, it seems there wasn’t any difference in terms of engine noise, I didn’t rev the engine while doing that.
Also, what do you mean by lower end and upper end, are you referring to the cylinder head?To HBVX:
No didn’t try unplugging each injectors plug, in fact, I don’t even know where they are, I think they might be hidden below the airbox, near the intake manifold, but I didn’t try it yet, does it make a difference compared to unplugging each coil?
To Eric:
I will surely remove the primary O2 sensor and see how the engine feels and behaves.
About the timing belt, we already replaced it, along with the water pump and tensionner and made sure the belt itself had a good tension on it before and after replacing it. The old tensionner was indeed worn out but not bad (bearing was a bit loose when spinning but wasn’t that loose from side to side).I cleaned the EGR once, it didn’t do much, it surely didn’t have anything to do with my issue.
So I think the only thing I have to do for now is unplug the O2 sensor and see what it does.Should I do an oil pressure test too? I think that would help too.
P.S: I have a feeling that the problem is really in the top end, if that is the case, I thought if I did an cylinder head overhaul (by a proper shop), maybe that would solve the problem? Of course, that is simply an idea, we need to diagnose the problem first. But what if the problem is indeed in the cylinder head, would an overhaul solve the problem or do we really have to pin point the exact piece in the engine causing this problem,
Once again, I’m grateful to all of you putting a great amount of effort for my issue.
Thanks a bunch guys!Hi guys,
I just read everything that you guys posted. While reading all this, I felt somehow left out, I didn’t know it the posts was addressed to me or not about some other subjects and I’m a bit confused here.About the noise, I’ll do some more clarification:
The engine itself is to me, really noisy, especially when I compare it to other Civics. Even when I’m inside the car, with all the windows rolled up, I can hear the noises clearly, so I think the microphone wasn’t really amplifying the noise.
The noise occurs also at idle, but very unnoticeably. Under the hood, when I put my ear right on top of the engine, I can hear a slight clicking/knocking noise.
It also occurs when I’m driving it but not when keeping a constant speed (engine not accelerating) nor does it do it when decelerating.
The engines also vibrates when revving it almost to the red line, I can tell the engine working hard from inside the car.
I cleaned the EGR valve, didn’t do much difference, but I guess if the valve or the passages are really clogged, the Check Engine Light should come on, right?This problem is really a big hassle to me, the itself is always regular, I think I mentioned previously, it also varies depending on the weather.
I drove it today, the noise wasn’t there when cold (engine still rough and noise in some other way), it appeared when the engine started to warm up (20 min) but after a long driving and revving a lot, the noise seemed to be less noticeable, but power issue was still there.So yeah, I know diagnosing by the internet isn’t the best way, I just wanted to have some feedback, in case it was a much simple issue that I could solve myself, but it doesn’t seem to be. Btw, thank you everyone for your feedbacks, I really appreciated it.
About what I should do, should I follow Eric’s advice and unplug the O2 sensor, or should I unplug the KS and see how it drives (or that isn’t a good idea considering what you guys said previously) or should I do both one at time?
Thanks guys
Well, actually, upon acceleration, the knocking doesn’t get worse, but the engine overall feels rough and noisier. That’s why I never rev the car too much since I believe it’s meaningless (I don’t get any more power, and it just hurts when I hear and feel the engine revving that way )and I shift at 3000 rpm.
I know it’s quite simple, although I will probably try removing the O2 sensor, I don’t understand the purpose of it since I already replaced the catalytic converter due to a cracked exhaust manifold (exhaust manifold and catalytic converter comes in one piece for this car).
It’s been almost a year since I owned, I bought it when it had 164k kms (101k miles)on it, and now it has about 184k kms (114k miles) and the problem has been occurring since then. I really regret making that purchase since it seems to me now that the previous owner didn’t really take care/price for his car.
I agree with you about the knock sensor, I never heard anybody disconnecting the KS on this particular car and it’s probably the last thing I would do. Because of that problem, I don’t intend on investing in anything else on the car but it just angers me when I can’t drive the way I want because the engine isn’t running the way it should. I also agree with you when you say that it’s better to fix the engine rather than trash it if the engine is indeed repairable, the engine is running, can produce a certain amount of power, doesn’t consume oil, has a pretty decent fuel economy. I think that would a waste to totally trash it and not resorting to any diagnosis, if that was the case, I wouldn’t have made that video and posted it on this forum. I sure would like to swap in another engine in good shape if that is the easiest and the least expensive way to solve my problem, but still, finding a good, reliable engine isn’t easy either, at least for me, any tips on buying a used engine? where to and how?
If it’s a bearing issue, why would it only make the noise when hot and not cold, I heard bearing noise issue occurs at all time, whether it is warm or not.
Also, I’m curious to know at what point and why does bearing starts to wear quickly. From what I understood, bearing does normally wear and eventually to a point when the engine needs to be replaced, but when and why does it start to wear faster? Let’s see an owner lets his engine oil level drop to a critical level and there’s metal to metal friction. Then, let’s say the owner is more cautious from that point, checking and replacing his oil regularly, the bearings should be safe from that point, does it wear faster than before or…? Sorry if I’m being bothersome, I’m learning just like you guys =)
My point is, I change my oil regularly and I’m trying to understand how the Used Oil Analysis is going to tell me about my bearing’s condition if I’m not and haven’t been running low on oil since I’ve owned the car.That being said, I’m interested in doing a used oil analysis but where should I send the oil ? I didn’t get that part.
Also, sorry for my English, it is not my first language and some sentences may seem awkward.
Thanks
Well, the funny thing is, we already replaced the exhaust manifold since it was cracked, and the catalytic converter for this car is already included with the exhaust manifold. There was no apparent difference before and after the replacement, I’m still having the same issue, sure, there is no exhaust leak now.
But I will try removing the primary oxygen sensor, if that is the one I should remove and not the secondary, and see how it runs.
I will keep you guys posted
Thanks
Still, this engine seems to be “knocking” quite more than the average other Civics:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKn4ublp … 8q7c2HekiA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGX-DhLS … 8q7c2HekiAMy engine doesn’t sound that nice and healthy.