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What would you say is fair market value for a 2002 Jeep Liberty in Good condition?
[quote=”Hinoki” post=170495]Not really, no.
Book value on that vehicle in good condition is going to be significantly less than the cost to have someone drop a motor in.
I might be wrong in this, but I get the general vibe that you’re a shade-tree mechanic (like me) and don’t have the experience or tool to yoink a motor out and swap it. That means labor will be a factor, as a motor swap isn’t for the faint of heart.
Given the engine done blowed up real good, the odds of everything else being absolutely spotless and perfect is pretty much the same as me winning the lottery. Twice. In a row.
TL/DR: No, not worth it. Too expensive for something that’ll need more work after the swap.[/quote]
You don’t even think it’s worth it to swap the motor for a working one? And that quote is hilarious and prophetic at the same time, not sure whether to laugh or cry lol :unsure:
[quote=”Evil-i” post=170492]“A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.”
-Mark TwainBroken rod, shattered piston, and all the collateral damage that comes with it: probable cylinder bore damage, cylinder head/valve damage, crankshaft damage and enough shrapnel in your oil to make a good sized boat anchor.
I’d rather see you get rid of this thing altogether, but, if you don’t mind carrying cats by their tails and if you have generous amounts of time and money, you could learn a hell of a lot by taking this engine apart. Honestly, the block, heads and internals are probably damaged beyond redemption, but it’s there for you to play with if you are so inclined. But, like I said, getting rid of this vehicle entirely is probably your best option.[/quote]
@Iznogood sorry for not responding sooner bro.
I didn’t wash any part of the engine, but again the oil levels were full. Here are the photos from spark plug hole #1, ironically my borescope got stuck as I tried to turn the motor, so now something is definitely inside 😆 It looks pretty messed up, let me know if you guys think this is salvageable:
Let me know what you make of it, but to my untrained eye the inside of the engine looks like the scene of a wreck
[quote=”Iznogood” post=170353]You didn´t take any photos with the Borescope by chance ? I´m curious.
Did you wash the top of the engine before you took those photos ? It looks awfully dry and void of oil.[/quote]
Hey guys, I checked with the boroscope and there’s a lot of debris inside the engine, I’m guessing it’s blown. At this point I have 3 options:
1) Try to rebuild this engine
2) Get an engine with a warranty for around $2K it seems
3) Get an engine from a junker without warranty for a lower cost and give it a go.
Let me know what you guys think thanks
The chain is supertight sir :unsure: It has a little wiggle from side to side but nothing up and down. At this poing I’m just waiting for the scope. I’m open to tips and advice as to seeing how to properly use the scope to see if something has fallen into the “well” of the engine so to speak thanks
[quote=”Evil-i” post=170288]Since you now have access to the timing chain, there’s a quick and easy check for chain and sprocket wear.
Just grab the chain at the top of the cam sprocket and lift up. If you can pull the chain up more than 1/4 of the tooth height, you’ve got a worn chain and sprockets. It’s just a fuzzy “rule-of-thumb” type of thing that could give you a better idea of your engine’s condition.
The grey bands on your cam lobes indicate typical cam wear, but I don’t think you’re in any trouble here. Run a fingernail across the lobe’s entire width to see if you can feel a depth difference between the shiney outer edges and the dull grey area.[/quote]
Update:
Below are the photos of the driver side camshaft/engine valves. I don’t know much about cars, but for 157,000 miles everything looks brand new to me, and to be honest the timing chain as well looks immaculate. at least the part I can see connected to the camshaft. I notices some slight grooves towards the front of the camshaft fitting, and also what appears to be a peach colored scratch/stain of some sort by the first “ring” on the camshaft, let me know if you guys think that means anything. As per the suggestion of @Evil-i, I turned the crankshaft back and forth with the valve cover off, and the timing chain and camshaft definitely turns with the timing belt. Also the guy at Autozone suggested I spin all the wheels on the serpentine belt to make sure those weren’t holding up the engine, and they all spun fairly easy, so it can’t be the alternator or anything like that. Now for whatever reason, the noise I heard the first time is clearly more distinct, it is in the front part of the engine almost precisely where the crankshaft is located. It sounds DISTINCTLY like a small nut or bolt would trapped inside a metal cylinder. And actually, if I rotate the crankshaft back and forth, it seems like whatever it is slips under the crankshaft and I can continue rotating the engine another quarter turn. I’m waiting for the endoscope, I almost think it’s something I can fish out. So at this point I have two theories, either there’s something caught in the timing belt towards the crankshaft area of the motor, or some nut or other small metal object fell into the motor someway somehow. Without knowing much about cars, I don’t think it’s a piston just because I would assume it would just be stuck, pistons are pretty solid and the noise I heard was something very tiny, perhaps about the size of a pebble. It almost sounds like if I had some kind of magnet I could fish it right out. Anyway, give me all your ideas, good or bad. If the pistons look good in the endoscope for me the next step is to take off the timing cover. Anywhere here are the photos, I completely understand why mechanics charge what they do, it took me a good 90 minutes to take off the camshaft cover:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/7VNR0DS.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/N5Y8yLl.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/IsTlI9P.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/2a6asel.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/4JQ3jp3.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/KiQqS1K.jpg[/IMG]
[quote=”Evil-i” post=170198]You don’t have to mess with the crank pulley to remove the valve covers.
I’d recommend leaving the crank pulley bolt alone for now. You’ll need it to turn the engine over by hand when using your endoscope. If a piston is too low in the bore to see easily, you’ll want to nudge it around to bring it up for a better view.[/quote]
Hey guys just wanted to update and ask more questions. I got under the car again and tried to look at both sides of the oil pan. I took a shot of the oil pan right under the crankshaft below. I didn’t see any holes or any leaks on either side of the pan. The oil leak source has to be right on top of the pan in my opinion. I also checked both sides of the motor from the type, both dry and rusty . So if there is a hole it must be literally on top of the oil pan. The endoscope I ordered from amazon will arrive tomorrow nd I’ll take a look at the pistons then.
I am about to pull off the engine valve cover. Would appreciate advice on how to remove the crankshaft pulley bolt, I’m assuming since it’s already partially locked I should technically be able to just pop it off but I didn’t want to damage anything. I saw online they have these clamp setups but it seems for those I may have to remove the front bumper, let me know what you guys recommend thanks
It is the 3.7L V6 that I have 🙁 Now I’m really worried. I finally got the car jacks so tomorrow I will be taking video and photos for you guys, hoping for the best
[quote=”Trod” post=170059]I can’t remember if he mentioned if it was a 2.4 liter or 3.7…If its a 2.4 most likely timing belt snapped in my opinion also. If its the 3.7 Liter with the timing chain my money is on the valve seat dropping. I’ve worked on Jeep engines before and the valve seats are notorious for dropping into the combustion chamber at the first sign of overheating. Either way, this is looking at an extensive job if the engine is binding when he tries to turn it over by hand and he may be a little out of his depths on this one sorry to say. I’ve done complete head tear down on a 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited V8, took forever and a day! I don’t recommend it, many tools required. Just my two cents guys…[/quote]
[quote=”Evil-i” post=169957][/quote]
Do you think it’s possible to use an endoscope? It’s similar but I can just hook it up to my phone, here’s a link:
Ok going to see if I can find a video on how to remove the valve cover. My personal opinion is that it’s quite possible that one of the valve seals broke, which is why there’s leaking oil. In the event that I have to redo the valve seals, do I have to remove the whole engine? Also once I change the timing belt, is it safe to see if the motor turns even if I haven’t replaced the valve seals?
[quote=”Iznogood” post=169944]You can take off the valvecover and check visually, if the valves are going up and down. Otherwise, a compression test will tell you, if one or more cylinders are leaking and a leak test with compressed air, will tell you WHERE it´s leaking.
Odds are a bit against you. Most engines are interference engines, which means, that pistons and valves occupy the same space at different times when the engine rotates. If that is the case, when the engine stopped, chances are, that pistons and valves collided. In worst case, the valves will have knocked a hole in one or more pistons rendering the engine worthless unless you rebuild it and in best case, there will be a few valves bent. The latter still requires a visit to a machine shop to get the old valves out, have the guides changed and the valves, as well as have the valves seats recut. It is also possible that the cams are bent a tad, so they should be straightened as well. Not a cheap procedure, so a replacement engine might be cheaper.
If you are VERY lucky, you can replace the timing belt and nothing else has happened. I wouldn´t get my hopes up untill verified via the above procedures.[/quote]
[quote=”Iznogood” post=169927][quote=”tenpin3000″ post=169907]Update:
I talked to a few people and the consensus is that if the engine rotates both ways but the range of motion is limited, that more than likely it’s just a timing belt, and as long as there is no valve/piston damage the engine should work after the timing belt replacmeent. Would appreciate your feedback as well, thanks in advance for all replies.[/quote]
It does indeed sound like a timing belt is broken. I´ll cross my fingers, that it´s the only thing that needs replacing. .I´ve never been so lucky myself. In most cases, there has been a few bent valves and / or broken pistons on the engines I´ve worked on. Let us know what you find once you get the belt replaced.[/quote]
Any advice on how to check for bent valves/broken pistons?
Update:
I talked to a few people and the consensus is that if the engine rotates both ways but the range of motion is limited, that more than likely it’s just a timing belt, and as long as there is no valve/piston damage the engine should work after the timing belt replacmeent. Would appreciate your feedback as well, thanks in advance for all replies.
UPDATE: It seems that actually the engine rotates in both directions, but there is a “range of motion” after which it stops. While i was trying to rotate the engine counterclockwise to do a cylinder test, the engine actually got stuck as well, and strangely enough I tried going the opposite way and I was able to turn it a few times. Let me know if that means anything, thanks in advance.
OK guys, I finally made my first attempt to turn the engine, here are the results, interested in your opinions/verdicts:
1) The engine rotates counterclockwise (standing from the front of the vehicle) very well. When I try to rotate it clockwise it will go for perhaps 1/8th of a turn then get stuck. I was told it should rotate CLOCKWISE from the front, so please let me know if that’s right or wrong.
2) I heard a noise inside when I rotated the engine counterclockwise, almost like a loose nut tumbling around, I heard it twice, that’s why I’m mentioning it.
So let me hear it, good or bad, so I know what to do next, and thanks in advance again for all replies, you guys have been great!
@Iznogood I literally just got the right spark plug sockets, gonna turn the engine shortly, for a jeep liberty where would the camshaft belt be located? Is that the same thing as a timing belt? From what I understand there’s a timing belt inside the motor and there’s another rubber belt that’s visible outside the motor for the Liberty, let me know thanks, and thanks for your reply!
[quote=”Iznogood” post=169881]Not too familiar with American cars, but a car that suddenly stops and subsequently can´t turn over, sounds like a broken cam-belt to me. When you turn the engine over by hand, make sure the cams turns as well.
If the cam belt is broken, you´ll likely not be able to turn it, as there will most likely be bent valves in the head.[/quote]
