Forum Replies Created
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Replies
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I’d talk with the owner of the location and have the service manager present. This doesn’t sound quite like the dealership was being evil—but it sure sounds like the “Nut-Buster” (I can’t call someone like that a tech) was trying to make more work for himself. Most shops are ‘flat rate’ and the techs/mechanics are paid a percentage of the time worked on cars/trucks. The more they can find wrong? The higher the paycheck.
There are A LOT of honest hard working techs at dealerships and private shops, and even national chain shops!!! Please do not let one taint your vision of the entire group.
That being said? You’re 100% correct. A snap on connector that was working fine when you brought it in? Just isn’t going to disconnect itself, unless you have a ghost in your transport. (in that case, I’d call TAPS)
I’d give the dealership a chance to make this right and skip working with the service writer(s) Go to the head of the dept and ask for a meeting with the owner of the dealership. If they have truly a bad apple working for them and they get nailed ‘creating’ work? That’s a black eye they can’t afford.
As for the fuel issue? Might be something as simple as a dirty contact or something like that. I’d go for a 2nd opinion on that one, as testing can be sure—guessing and suggesting a large repair such as a fuel pump? Put it this way–my Bronco II has over 200,000 miles on it. And it’s got the factory fuel pump. They do fail, but not as often as you might think.
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[quote=”patriley” post=102742]Thank you very much for the detailed response, it is much appreciated. I will try more adjustments on the shoes as you suggested.
A couple more notes, when bleeding I was pressing the pedal down to the floor on every stroke. I did not know this was bad until I began researching this problem. Do you think I might have damaged the MC from this? Also the front left line bleeds out foamy fluid every time I bleed it. Could the caliper be letting air in?
The pedal does not get firmer when pumping it (engine running).[/quote]Foamy fluid is air in the lines. I’d guess that’s a large part of the issue with the spongy pedal.
Oddly enough when bleeding brakes you need to have the pedal hit the floor. Pump the brakes several times. On the last ‘pump’ do not release the pedal, and have a helper (or yourself and the helper working the bleeders) open the bleeders until the pedal hits the floor.
That’s the catch-22. If you have even a tiny burr or nick in the M/C? It can and will damage the rubber cup.
One thing to try would be a vacuum pump with a brake bleeder adapter.
http://www.harborfreight.com/mityvac-vacuum-pump-39522.html
They have a cheaper one for $29 that does the same thing.
All you need to do? Is just remove the master cylinder cap and keep the master cylinder FULL while using the tool. The vacuum will draw the air/fluid out and once you have no bubbles or foam? Secure the bleeder screw, check for leaks…top off the fluid and see what happens.
Any air/foam looking fluid is a huge red flag for spongy brakes.
Sometimes even gravity bleeding can work. Top off the master…crack open the bleeder..and just let gravity do it’s thing. Keep the master full, and once you get clear clean fluid–shut the bleeder.
As for the question could the caliper allow air to get ‘in’? Unless you see a leak, it shouldn’t. (Air getting ‘in’ to the system…you’ll sure see fluid making an ‘exit’ as well)
Keep us posted!! This one is interesting.
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[quote=”patriley” post=102742]Thank you very much for the detailed response, it is much appreciated. I will try more adjustments on the shoes as you suggested.
A couple more notes, when bleeding I was pressing the pedal down to the floor on every stroke. I did not know this was bad until I began researching this problem. Do you think I might have damaged the MC from this? Also the front left line bleeds out foamy fluid every time I bleed it. Could the caliper be letting air in?
The pedal does not get firmer when pumping it (engine running).[/quote]Foamy fluid is air in the lines. I’d guess that’s a large part of the issue with the spongy pedal.
Oddly enough when bleeding brakes you need to have the pedal hit the floor. Pump the brakes several times. On the last ‘pump’ do not release the pedal, and have a helper (or yourself and the helper working the bleeders) open the bleeders until the pedal hits the floor.
That’s the catch-22. If you have even a tiny burr or nick in the M/C? It can and will damage the rubber cup.
One thing to try would be a vacuum pump with a brake bleeder adapter.
http://www.harborfreight.com/mityvac-vacuum-pump-39522.html
They have a cheaper one for $29 that does the same thing.
All you need to do? Is just remove the master cylinder cap and keep the master cylinder FULL while using the tool. The vacuum will draw the air/fluid out and once you have no bubbles or foam? Secure the bleeder screw, check for leaks…top off the fluid and see what happens.
Any air/foam looking fluid is a huge red flag for spongy brakes.
Sometimes even gravity bleeding can work. Top off the master…crack open the bleeder..and just let gravity do it’s thing. Keep the master full, and once you get clear clean fluid–shut the bleeder.
As for the question could the caliper allow air to get ‘in’? Unless you see a leak, it shouldn’t. (Air getting ‘in’ to the system…you’ll sure see fluid making an ‘exit’ as well)
Keep us posted!! This one is interesting.
S-
[quote=”barneyb” post=102688]If the pedal is going to the floor and you can’t pump it up it is most likely the master cylinder. By the time you get done with this project you are going to be a brake expert.
Anyway, if you decide to change the master spend plenty of time bench bleeding. There probably will be instructions with the replacement part or look on youtube.[/quote]
Barneyb nailed this! Anytime replacement of the master cylinder is done—this procedure needs to be exact and correct.
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[quote=”barneyb” post=102688]If the pedal is going to the floor and you can’t pump it up it is most likely the master cylinder. By the time you get done with this project you are going to be a brake expert.
Anyway, if you decide to change the master spend plenty of time bench bleeding. There probably will be instructions with the replacement part or look on youtube.[/quote]
Barneyb nailed this! Anytime replacement of the master cylinder is done—this procedure needs to be exact and correct.
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How did you do the adjustment of the rear brake shoes? The rear brakes normally have a direct impact on your brake pedal height.
Two things I can think of. Rear brakes not correctly adjusted. In the past I’ve installed the shoes and new drums/turned drums. I run the adjuster up so I can hear the brake pads just touch the drums when spinning the axle. Same on the other side. I then hit the brake pedal a few times to ‘center’ the brake shoes, and then going through the access hole–adjust the star wheel until I have the shoes just sound like they are making light contact with the drums. (Not so tight it creates resistance, but so when you spin the axle you can hear a very faint rubbing) It takes a lot of practice to dial it in, and this is only my method for doing this. (some dial it in close—put it back together and then run things backwards/forwards for the star wheel adjuster to do the same thing automatically)
In regards to the master cylinder– Look under the master where it connects to the power brake booster. Brake fluid eats paint. If you see an area that looks like someone hit it with paint stripper just under the master–then it’s 100% shot.
Another trick is to loosen, do not remove the nuts retaining it to the booster. Pull it forward and check for brake fluid behind it. At times a bad master cylinder can dump brake fluid back into the booster so it won’t show up.
These are not fool proof checks…But they can give some hints/clues. Also there is the pedal bleed down test. I personally would double check the rear adjustment of the shoes, and then chase after master cylinder issues.
Another note on the master cylinder that often gets overlooked. If the pedal hits the floor due to a sudden leak— The cylinder uses a set of ‘rubber’ cups in a bore, set of springs and a rod…It’s quite the operation. However if one of the ports in the cylinders housing happens to ‘catch’ one of the ‘rubber cups’. (normally a defect in the machining process when built) It can put a nick in the cup and cause it to leak back. The fact the pedal hit the floor already might have done this.
These are just some suggestions and ideas. Without having the vehicle in front of me? Can’t tell what exactly is going on, or the details. So all this is generic things that can happen.
S-
How did you do the adjustment of the rear brake shoes? The rear brakes normally have a direct impact on your brake pedal height.
Two things I can think of. Rear brakes not correctly adjusted. In the past I’ve installed the shoes and new drums/turned drums. I run the adjuster up so I can hear the brake pads just touch the drums when spinning the axle. Same on the other side. I then hit the brake pedal a few times to ‘center’ the brake shoes, and then going through the access hole–adjust the star wheel until I have the shoes just sound like they are making light contact with the drums. (Not so tight it creates resistance, but so when you spin the axle you can hear a very faint rubbing) It takes a lot of practice to dial it in, and this is only my method for doing this. (some dial it in close—put it back together and then run things backwards/forwards for the star wheel adjuster to do the same thing automatically)
In regards to the master cylinder– Look under the master where it connects to the power brake booster. Brake fluid eats paint. If you see an area that looks like someone hit it with paint stripper just under the master–then it’s 100% shot.
Another trick is to loosen, do not remove the nuts retaining it to the booster. Pull it forward and check for brake fluid behind it. At times a bad master cylinder can dump brake fluid back into the booster so it won’t show up.
These are not fool proof checks…But they can give some hints/clues. Also there is the pedal bleed down test. I personally would double check the rear adjustment of the shoes, and then chase after master cylinder issues.
Another note on the master cylinder that often gets overlooked. If the pedal hits the floor due to a sudden leak— The cylinder uses a set of ‘rubber’ cups in a bore, set of springs and a rod…It’s quite the operation. However if one of the ports in the cylinders housing happens to ‘catch’ one of the ‘rubber cups’. (normally a defect in the machining process when built) It can put a nick in the cup and cause it to leak back. The fact the pedal hit the floor already might have done this.
These are just some suggestions and ideas. Without having the vehicle in front of me? Can’t tell what exactly is going on, or the details. So all this is generic things that can happen.
S-
After all the nonsense I just went through with my intake manifold?
Replace the bolts. One of my bolts worked themselves loose and caused a nice leak into #4 cylinder of coolant. I wouldn’t hesitate to replace the bolts and run a tap down the block holes for the intake to clean out the threads. If that’s what the manual states and is recommended?
$14 bucks-$20 bucks can save having to do the job over again- Cheap insurance.
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After all the nonsense I just went through with my intake manifold?
Replace the bolts. One of my bolts worked themselves loose and caused a nice leak into #4 cylinder of coolant. I wouldn’t hesitate to replace the bolts and run a tap down the block holes for the intake to clean out the threads. If that’s what the manual states and is recommended?
$14 bucks-$20 bucks can save having to do the job over again- Cheap insurance.
S-
After fighting with that intake? Actually it wasn’t the intake that really Pi&&ed me off. Ford uses no retaining flange on the valve covers for a 2.9v6. So as you attempt to tighten the bolts to spec? The gasket slides either outside the flange…or sneaks into the valve cover. The flange is flat, where common sense would have a flat flange with an abutment to hold the gasket in place.
Anywho. The shop manual said to coat the gasket with sealer–and with the lack of the install ‘tips’ in the box? The light coating should at least help with the bolt that got incorrectly installed, and then correctly installed a moment later.
I didn’t go crazy with it. Just a thin amount like 1/2 the thickness of a credit card.
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After fighting with that intake? Actually it wasn’t the intake that really Pi&&ed me off. Ford uses no retaining flange on the valve covers for a 2.9v6. So as you attempt to tighten the bolts to spec? The gasket slides either outside the flange…or sneaks into the valve cover. The flange is flat, where common sense would have a flat flange with an abutment to hold the gasket in place.
Anywho. The shop manual said to coat the gasket with sealer–and with the lack of the install ‘tips’ in the box? The light coating should at least help with the bolt that got incorrectly installed, and then correctly installed a moment later.
I didn’t go crazy with it. Just a thin amount like 1/2 the thickness of a credit card.
S-
Okay, the stinking thing is finished. Attached are two photos. The first one shows just how bad the coolant was backed up.
I found the one bolt next to the offending ‘leaker’ loose. Not sure how it could have worked itself free? But it did, and the gasket shows the damage from the clamping pressure not being equally displaced.
Had a major El Dumbo’ during install of the new gasket. Hope it won’t crap out. I went to torque it down, and this engine requires 5 steps total. I asked my wife for the first torque value and she mistakenly read off the ‘final’ torque of 18ftlbs. So I torqued that one on the same corner that failed to that spec….then asked for the correct pattern, when I noticed it starts off at 3, 6, 12, 18final, run engine for 15 minutes and re-torque.
So I made the one that I started with back to loose. And started all over again. Sense it was only the one bolt that got screwed up? I am hoping that the coating (light) of RTV Black on all the ports will help prevent the gasket from failing due to one bolt being not done as per instructions.
That just leaves the oil change on Tuesday and re-timing the engine. I dialed in that timing pretty darn close. Plus I checked the timing chain for slack. Nadda. Nice and steady movement, moved smoothly and no glitch when reversing direction slightly.
I’ll add more if needed. For the time being the engine ran pretty smooth (even with just vacuum timing)
Have a super day!!
S-
Okay, the stinking thing is finished. Attached are two photos. The first one shows just how bad the coolant was backed up.
I found the one bolt next to the offending ‘leaker’ loose. Not sure how it could have worked itself free? But it did, and the gasket shows the damage from the clamping pressure not being equally displaced.
Had a major El Dumbo’ during install of the new gasket. Hope it won’t crap out. I went to torque it down, and this engine requires 5 steps total. I asked my wife for the first torque value and she mistakenly read off the ‘final’ torque of 18ftlbs. So I torqued that one on the same corner that failed to that spec….then asked for the correct pattern, when I noticed it starts off at 3, 6, 12, 18final, run engine for 15 minutes and re-torque.
So I made the one that I started with back to loose. And started all over again. Sense it was only the one bolt that got screwed up? I am hoping that the coating (light) of RTV Black on all the ports will help prevent the gasket from failing due to one bolt being not done as per instructions.
That just leaves the oil change on Tuesday and re-timing the engine. I dialed in that timing pretty darn close. Plus I checked the timing chain for slack. Nadda. Nice and steady movement, moved smoothly and no glitch when reversing direction slightly.
I’ll add more if needed. For the time being the engine ran pretty smooth (even with just vacuum timing)
Have a super day!!
S-
That can of course work and do a fair job.
Myself? LOL.
I actually have a set of plumbers pipe benders in my toolbox. Sense I make my own brake lines when needed? All I need do is insert the line into the plumbers bending spring for the right size. Make all the bends I need. (can’t get them to complex, that’s the drawback) Then take the spring bender tool off and do my flaring. (Kudos to OTC and their “Stinger” sets. Honorable mention for a hand held flaring set that can do more then 4 flares. The cheap sets can’t do 4 before they strip out the line retainers. I’ve yet to strip the OTC ones out in about 20 flares)
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That can of course work and do a fair job.
Myself? LOL.
I actually have a set of plumbers pipe benders in my toolbox. Sense I make my own brake lines when needed? All I need do is insert the line into the plumbers bending spring for the right size. Make all the bends I need. (can’t get them to complex, that’s the drawback) Then take the spring bender tool off and do my flaring. (Kudos to OTC and their “Stinger” sets. Honorable mention for a hand held flaring set that can do more then 4 flares. The cheap sets can’t do 4 before they strip out the line retainers. I’ve yet to strip the OTC ones out in about 20 flares)
S-
