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Agreed. The trail seems to run head first into something ‘killing’ the command to run the starter. Seems to be 2 likely items that can cause this, other then wiring. The neutral safety switch inside the transmission (Lovely place to hide it…) or the PCM itself that sends the signal to the TIPM. The Journey forum chimed in about a flaky CPS. Not sold on that, as it runs like a top (once it starts) And it doesn’t get even a partial spin before getting commanded to shut off.
Next on my list is the relay bypass, and attempting to track down a wiring diagram. The only sites that offer to ‘sell’ a service manual would be in China or Korea. I’m a close follower of Eric O over at South Main Auto. If memory serves he did a video on service manuals and ones made for the DYI market. I’ll look into that as well and see if I can download PDF’s of the wiring. Part of me is leaning towards that NSS in the transmission. Even though my scan tool is reporting the correct data, it might be dropping the signal so quickly the tool doesn’t pick it up-but the PCM is. I hope it’s not a faulty PCM. I do have a supplier down in FL that I’ve used a few times with excellent results. But I’m tired of firing the parts cannon on this one.
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Close it out folks.
Talked with a Subaru guy that does a lot of engine work. (BriansMobile…probably horsing his nickname up….sorry…)
He told me where to locate the information.
We went out before the Jumbo Sized mosquito express came out…. Jacked up the front end and started the truck. I had the wife steer all the way Left and Right and manually returned it to center. (that’s a PITA…) Steering Gear box is okay.
Double checked ball joints (suggestion by our complex manager. He’s a retired “Gear Head” himself and knows a lot more about 4wd then I’ll ever know) Ball Joints? All good.
Another test drive…..This time it’s starting to get a bit jerky with the wheel…. Parked it and I wanted to double check bushings and such. Noted the wheel would only turn 1/4 before sounding the gear box “High Pressure” alarm!… Crawled under and expected to see a bound up tie rod or center link… What I saw? Blew my mind away.
First, I’m sorry that I didn’t take the U-Joint issue more serious. The complex manager explained what was happening in more detail. The U-Joint on that side needs to flex a bit when the wheel is turned. It’s binding up solid and that’s causing a ‘Pop’ to occur when it releases. And of course, the spindle bearing is likely causing a drag on the axle shaft..which is binding up… And there’s the yank and pull…
So at least that mystery is finally solved!! At the complex managers suggestion.. (plus he loaned me his socket for the 4wd LOL) I’m going to replace all the U-Joints at the front axle. He stated correctly if 1 is toast? The others are not far behind.
So I’ll need to research U-Joint replacement, spindle bearing replacement… And while I’m in there? I’ll also do the Right side differential seal if it’s not to much a PITA.
In the mean while? Can’t drive the ol’ girl… She’ll be down for a couple of weeks pending me getting the $$ for the parts and such.
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[quote=”nightflyr” post=188196]Sounds as if your direction is correct.
If all the bearings,hubs and steering are in good shape.
My next thought would be to check all the bushings for wear, causing movement somewhere in the front end.
Next would be the power steering pump operation.[/quote]Well the direction of the truck isn’t correct…..LOL
I’ll be spending more time on it later on. Power steering pump is the old reliable ford pump (The power steering itself has great assist when it’s sitting still. No need for Popeye arms when trying to turn)
I did some basic checks on the bushings to the twin traction beam. They are tired, but not loose to the point there’s a lot of slop. I looked for broken rubber chucks, etc. Everything on the bushings of course flexes when turning and such, but this hard “Jerk” to the left seems more like something has grabbed the wheel and turns it with moderate pressure to the left. (And to the right to a smaller degree.)
When we get the wheels off the ground and do more testing- I think something might present itself. Still unsure what to think about the U-Joint issue for the front drive axles. Yeah there’s need of replacement (minor binding) But the hubs aren’t locked? Just really puzzled.
Have a good day! I’m off to work and I’ll ponder as I have a 2 hour drive today.
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No worries about passing it.
Those are the guys that believe the issue is the counter shaft gears assembly and the input shaft gears are in need of replacement.
Still sounds like a bearing going bad. I’ll be hitting another pick and pull yard tomorrow AM early before I go to my scheduled location. If I can find a M5OD-R1 or R2 from a suitable donor…. (Bell housings only seem to fit on a 2.9/2.8/4.0 as they use the same block I’ve been told) Wish a 3.0 would work LOL. I managed to find one in a local yard.
Did note we have a bit of a ‘scream’ sound from the front of the engine. Idler pulley is noisy. Sad reality–it’s an unrelated sound. This sounds more like a geary sound with bearing noise mixed in.
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Eric:
Several people complained the audio has dropouts and is very static filled in some spots. (Just to make you aware if no one else mentioned it)
Wow. Normally I would think a missing starter shim or something like that. But yes, it’s possible someone continued to key the starter ‘on’ after the engine was running.
With all the new parts installed, just keep an ear out. If the engine starts without any grinding noise and is smooth, I’d say you fixed it.
But good lord’n butter. Who in the world would intentionally crank an engine already started? That adds to a new level of stupid. Unless it was some stupid idiot that knew they where dumping the car anyway and wanted to inflict abuse- Only to find out a running car sells better then a POS that won’t run. So change out the starter and walk away. People like this annoy me.
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Yep, that’s what I have possibly planned for my next day working on it for Tuesday.
Going to the local pick and pull looking for assorted parts today.
With the noise seeming to be coming out of the exhaust manifold(s) it’s about the oddest I’ve heard. I will use the mechanics “ear” and probe the valve covers to see (or hear actually) if anything in the valve train could be doing this. If it wasn’t for the fact the noise is clear as day coming out the exhaust manifold? I might suspect a bent push rod or totally flat lifter. However given that noises can often travel down metal parts from one area to another….
While I’m not out of the woods yet, I feel a lot happier about the bottom half of this engine.
So tune in next time…. And find our hero probe the upper half of the engine (ahem…would have done this yesterday, but ran out of sun light). Using a “Scope on a Rope” (test light) to ground out the spark for each plug to isolate exactly what cyc this issue is associated with…
Love the leak down test idea, it gives me an excuse to purchase a small air compressor. We have 2 up in the barn I normally work out of, however one has pin hole leaks in the air tank, and the other one the motor, while not seized–just gives a loud hum and refuses to start, even if given a little helping nudge.
Thanks again!
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This just got a lot more interesting.
Did an oil pressure check. Stone cold we get about 65psi. All warmed up and at low idle we get about 28-32. Highly responsive to throttle position. (The Wife gets credit for holding the pressure gauge. That’s not my shade of nail polish)
We did a couple more videos of that noise.
Here’s where things get interesting. You can clearly hear the ‘knock’. Upon giving it some gas, the knock diminishes to the point it’s pretty well gone. Last time I had an issue with rod knock, it got louder and more pronounced when the engine RPM was raised.
Now where this blows my mind away….
I used a mechanics Stethoscope. I had that probe end all over the engine and transmission…and bell housing. NOTHING to report!! With that knocking sound? No place I touched the probe reported anything. The oil pan? I could hear rotational sounds, and even the ‘Wshoosssssh’ sound (best way to describe it) of the oil pickup! But no knocking sound.
Then I touched the probe to the exhaust pipes.
Bingo…… not as loud as I expected, but it’s clear as day. I then probed higher up to the manifolds. The noise isn’t “Loud” or as loud as what I’m hearing, but it’s very pronounced and the only place I could pick up that noise was when I had the probe of that stethoscope touching the manifolds and exhaust pipes.
Possible burnt exhaust valve? I’m guessing on this. I’ve heard rod knocks before, and they always get much worse with acceleration and they are clearly able to be heard with the stethoscope through the oil pan. The fact when it’s making this noise, I can hear all the “Rotational” sounds within the oil pan—and no knocking noise when I have that stethoscope touching various parts of that oil pan.
This isn’t a rod knock that I know of….
Any ideas? Am I totally off base with the idea of a burnt exhaust valve?
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That’s how I have it set up in my Bronco II already. That stupid gauge was one of the worst ideas FORD ever came up with. Just because people didn’t know how to interpret the gauge.
Sadly sleeping on the sofa isn’t good for my back. Because that’s where I would be if I suggested that.
If it was a diesel I wouldn’t be as concerned.
I’ll be hooking up a oil pressure test gauge on it Sunday. Wish I could do it sooner, but Ford put the sensor in a tight spot. I’ll let it get warmed up and give it a complete once over twice. Even goose the throttle a few times and repeat under load.
Hard to blip the throttle and hold the camera at the same time :silly:
Looks like the test light will also come into play. I can ground out the spark at the coil pack for each cyc to isolate where it’s coming from.
Wife has already stated “find something else”. Issue becomes trying to recover losses. Might as well see how deep the rabbit hole goes first….
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That’s next in the works. Although I’m not a fan of where Ford put the sending unit….. Have to go through the left wheel well from what I understand.
At least this isn’t a “Gotta get it done NOW” project.