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When I was a kid, they said we would run out of oil by Y2K. There are too many gas and Diesel engines out there to be completely phased out anytime soon. The materials needed to make electric cars are rare earth metals. Key word is rare. Will there be increased use of hybrids and new technologies that will need repairs? Absolutely. We won’t go away but the ones who refuse to adapt will.
It’s been a while since I popped on here and surety you figured out the cause by now but I’ll put my two cents in for others as well.
These engines have a history of dropping valve seats as well as valves. I’d remove the spark plug and peer into the cylinder with a borescope. You’ll likely see the cause. Also possible you see a hole thru the piston too[quote=”BubbaGarage” post=177331]Bad coil was problem but I would still love to know how a test of cam sensor is done.[/quote]
You can check for power and ground at the sensor, and for voltage drops with a conventional dvom, but to verify the signal integrity, and also to check the sync with the crank sensor, you need a scope. Google Vantage Pro, and Vantage Ultra. If you want to truly be able to check the sensors, that is what is needed. Just an interesting note, the Vantage Pro was made in a special version as an OE tool for Volvo. Instead of red, it was a bluish purple color. So that’s even how Volvo tests them. DVOM won’t work because the signal is too fast and the meter will just get you an average voltage reading.I would say your cmp and ckp sensors are fine. A quick look on identifix explains better on testing, and lots of issues with the coil/module. If you can only get a spark up to 1/4″ of gap, then it may be weak, or the module may be weak. A labscope would let you see the driver pattern on the module. Instead of a clean off and on, you would see a tapering effect. Looked like a lot of people ended up doing the coil and module together. Make sure the rest of the secondary ignition is up to snuff, or you may cook a new coil.
I think it is dependent on the individual. If the person has some grasp of automotive and strong reasoning skills, then going to school for a piece an expensive piece of paper to do oil changes for the next year or two is a bit much. If you lack any knowledge at all, then school may be the best bet, but you will likely forget all you studied by the time you get to really apply it, or find out it’s not really that way in a shop. I’ve encountered grads from UTI-Phoenix, Wyotech, as well as 3 of the local tech schools. The best of them, was one of two grads I encountered from UTI, and he has potential but needs a year or two of mentoring by a top tier tech before he will really be something outstanding. If he ever does that, he will be really great. Sadly the last I saw him, he was wasting away at a back alley hack shop. The other UTI grad set a dodge on fire the first week he worked, and he was already on his second job within a month. He lasted one more week before he emailed the owner he quit. He stabbed a distributor out of time, and started spraying brake clean on the engine because he knew he now had a vacuum leak when it ran horrible. Lacked the basic ability to follow directions, and to ask questions, let alone to use the right tool for the job. The rest of the grads from the other schools, one had the willingness to learn, but had personal life issues that interfered with that, and the others, 4-5 of them, could barely be trusted to do oil changes and basic inspections after 6-12mo of doing the job and instruction. I feel that schools do not do nearly enough in teach problem solving skills and insuring the students have a 100% grasp of it, and prepping them for real life in a real shop. We have had better luck teaching fresh meat how to work, than trying to reprogram graduates. Manufacture programs can have some benefit, but honestly, don’t let yourself be handicapped(I’ll get flamed by the dealer guys for this) by working on one brand of vehicle. You’ll find yourself struggling later on in the industry. Just ask all the dealer techs that were laid off 7 or 8 years ago.
[quote=”TauroTech” post=177119]I work in a tire shop, obviously a starting job. We hire guys who have graduated technical schools and we have to teach them how to use the impact gun!
My advice, skip the school and start work in a tire shop! It’s an entry level job, so if you work hard and don’t complain, you will stand out. Maybe start flipping cars on the side to get into more mechanical work. Plus if you work in a shop like mine where we also have mechanics, there is a great wealth of information in them for the taking.
I am really hating on automotive schools right now[/quote]
Probably some good advice there, though tire shops aren’t the best starting point. Sometimes you don’t have a choice, thoughAs far as waveforms if you have manufacturer scan tools diaging those issues is normally faster and easier with the scan tool over a scope.
Maybe in heavy equipment, but in light duty/automotive, not even close. I’ve used oe tooling, and in limited cases it offered more than my snap on. In most cases it offered the exact same information and tests. In no situation did an oe scan tool offered anything that would tell you more than a scope. All you see with a scan tool is what the control module is telling you. Do you trust the information like it’s from the pope, or a politician? A scope helps you verify what you see. You see the raw signals and can say yes a sensor, or driver is working correctly, or no it’s not. Plenty of situations where the module would not set a code for an issue, but with a scope you can see the issue. Sure, some car makers do not endorse using a scope, and rely on the engineers algorithms to find all faults, as well as swapping “known good parts” to find the issues. Those brands, and their techs have a lot of issues finding hard problems, and when its not under warranty the customer suffers. To put it another way, we had a brand of a particular car maker, a dealer, call us and asked us to take over a problem child they could not figure out, and it’s the make of the brand they sell! If you aren’t using an O scope, you are leaving a lot on the table. Let’s look at another situation. Who here has had a vehicle come in(gasoline) that would sometimes not start, no codes, but when it is in the shop it acts fine? You keep it for days, and no problems. Some would say, throw a fuel pump at it, but can you prove the pump was bad? What if you’re wrong? There is no OE tool that will catch a dead spot in a fuel pump, but a scope will. How about that issue where the customer thinks the engine cranks a little slower than usual, and the battery tests marginal? OE tooling, and powerprobes will do nothing to find the issue. 10 seconds later with the scope, you know the answer. I could go on and on about finding driver faults that control modules can’t detect issues with yet.,
Yeah, I saw the temp range difference between the Flir and Snapon. Now Flir does have one that goes up to 1100*F. Its made for firefighters, can’t remember the model, but it goes for about $1400. I bet money the next version that snapon releases has the MX technology in it.
Call me the odd duck, but I never got into powerprobes. I have a pp3 that I bought used, and I may use it a couple of times a year, but otherwise I don’t need it. If you dealt with 12v circuits exclusively, namely lights, then it may be more practical, but that would be it, IMO. The vast majority of what I do, is done with a DVM, scope, amp probe and a couple of leads. Yes the powerprobe can do some of that stuff, but I can do everything the probe does and a lot more. The only benefit I see with the ppIV would be the ability to sniff open circuits. That is intriguing, but that’s the only thing I see it offers. How many ohms can the pp4 load the drivers with on the driver test? Can it tell a good driver waveform from a bad one etc? Can it adequately do load tests of electrical circuits, such as for a fuel pump? I have had to watch more than a couple of techs use them, or misuse them, aimlessly putting power to stuff and grounding stuff, in trying to find a problem. More than a few connectors have had to be repinned due to the powerprobe being rammed into it, even if it was “just the tip” lol. Sorry ladies.
If it works for you guys, great, but are you using it because it is easy, or because you aren’t using your meter to its full potential?
[quote=”DFRanger” post=176830]Oh I like it. Got mine for a little more than the flir I was looking at. I think the data base built in is a little neat but unnecessary. I’ve used it a few times already. Very cool to see heat signatures, makes you wonder what all will be possible with this technology in our industry.[/quote]
Still in the playing stages with mine, looking at heater hoses on functioning heaters, condensers, tires, etc. Boss rolled his eyes initially at me buying it, but he quickly came around. The Flir would be better, but lacks a database for what we do, and would probably be best for someone who is already familiar with the imagers. From what I heard(maybe you heard otherwise) my snapon guy said they are already backordered by 3k units. He sold his first 6 in three days.[quote=”DFRanger” post=176812]Just bought a Snap-on thermal imager.[/quote]
Bought one of the last ones from my tool guy last week too. Pricey thing but lots of cool stuff you can see and check with it.Yep, huge difference between a code reader and a scan tool. Code readers are just that, they kind of half hazardly read codes. A scan tool is what you may use to diagnose an issue. If you want to read codes to scribble down numbers, a code reader may work, may is the key word. If you want to solve issues in a vehicle, then a scan tool is a must. The other day we had a Ford come in with no reverse light on one side. Bulb was burned out, and replaced it. In order to get the light to work again, a scan tool had to be used to clear the fault code for the light failure, and then, and only then would the light work. A code reader would not have worked, as they typically can not access a lot of body modules.
Not to the coil wire. Ok back to basics, you have a primary and secondary side of an ignition coil. Primary side is the battery voltage and control. Secondary is the side that emits a high voltage spark. On the primary side, you have a positive and negative wire. Positive wire has battery voltage fed to it, negative side connects to ground when it energizes the coil, and disconnects to emit a high voltage spark. You connect a test light between the positive terminal of the battery and the negative wire on the primary side of the ignition coil. Crank the engine and see if it flashes. It should if the ignition module or driver is working properly. Have you attached a noid light to test for injector pulse? If you have injector pulse, then your cam and crank sensors are probably ok. When you crank the engine and check for spark, is it a consistant pulsing spark, or is it only once, and when you stop cranking? How much gap are you putting between the coil wire and the cylinder head when checking spark? Should have no issue with a one inch gap, and probably even more. You may have a weak coil or ignition driver/module/igniter. If you do not have a labscope yet, then you absolutely need to acquire one, as a professional shop you owe it to your customers. For how much used vantage pro’s go for now, anyone can afford one. It even has the test procedures for a lot of stuff built in.
[quote=”BubbaGarage” post=176761]When I remove coil wire from rotor cap it has spark………..tested by holding wire close to ground and I see spark.[/quote]
Then you either have a weak coil or a leak to ground inside the distributor or rotor, most likely