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[quote=”IAD_TDI” post=58847]I am a DIYer so I have a different angle at the Flat Rate System. It is a system to charge you more time then it takes to do the job. If any other profession charged that way they would be in court in a minute – the problem is not that it is flat rate but shops advertise shop hour/rate and charge you inflated hours. I had a friend that had to replace a fuel pump and was told that tank had to be lowered and it would take many hours of shop time, he had the shop manuals and they had that as a correct procedure/time. I told him that it could be done from the top and looked on the internet and found that there was a Panel so he bought the pump and one evening the two of us removed the back seat to get to the panel and replaced the pump in a couple of hours. Total cost $200 dollars for the part. Not bad for 2 DIYers.
I just have a problem on the inflated times. Yes you will get a bad one but then they/shop will say it took X hours. That has stopped because the quotes that were given, they can only go over by a certain purcentage. Now do I beleave that the techs saw that money – I know better. Tipping the mechanic is probably a great idea, but I dont think I have to tip everyone that I do busyness with. I did take a case of beer to a shop that did save me a few bucks.
ERIC your talked about a TDI, there is a GTG Impex TDI Fest in Baltimore MD area May 18. Check website TDIClub for info. Great event for the TDI DiYer, not a lot of wrenching, to big to do alot of that.
Eric you are right that this effects other professions, seen it happen in a commision dentistry shop – not a court issue just state labor people. The one way to make this work is to have a base rate that satisfies the governments and commision on jobs completed. Like changing every system some will make out better and others will lose. The problem that has to be solved is to get the work into the shop and this comes down to trust and fairness.[/quote]
I want to quote this post, because this post is the exact problem. You are so completely wrong it is not funny.
Book times are calculated as how long it will take 1 person, not a group of people, not 2, to do the job with hand tools. You are basically saying to punish the guy who bought bigger and better tools to do the job faster, to in turn increase his efficiency and paycheck. If people had it your way, you would all be DIYers, because no one would be a tech, that or, everyone would just use hand tools and get the maximum pay. How in your right mind you think it is fair that the guy with little investment in tools should be paid more because he takes longer, is beyond me.
I don’t post here much anymore. In fact quite a few techs here are at odds with the community and some of Eric’s opinions and responses on this. I have started a technician Facebook group with many of the and other techs to discuss these topics, and it is going fairly well. From this I have learned what the issues are with the system. It’s that there are no labor protections for us and the dealerships and manufacturers know this an abuse it.
We need to effectively be able to address the following problems, on a legal scale and force the dealerships and manufacturers to follow the law and that is, they cannot require you to work for free. I am not referring to you taking an hour on a job that pays 0.5, that just means you need to pick up the pace or gain more experience, I mean:
– MPIs, the dealership agrees to do them for free, not us, if you say it takes 0.1 to do one and I have to do one every car, but you don’t pay me 0.1, you are breaking the law. Period. I don’t get paid for my MPIs. And I will be willing to lie and say yes it only takes 0.1, and last week I worked on 63 cars, that is 6.3 hours of work I did not get paid for. Illegal.
– Diagnostics. My dealership seems to think it is free. That it is fine to not pay me for work. Test drives, no monetary compensation, pulling a car in to find out why a TPMS light is on and having to just put air in the tires is work. It takes time. You want to cover it for the customer fine, but you have to pay me to do it. Not paying me is illegal. Case in point, I did a warrant cat last week (another BS thing I will address in a second) and the customer came back yesterday with a check engine light, blaming me. If it’s a comeback, than it is on me if I screwed up. Scan the code, large evap leak, check the gas cap and yep, customer didn’t tighten it down. I now make a habit of running time from the moment I pick up the RO and walk to the car. It took me 0.2 to scan that code and tighten the cap and clear the code. I didn’t get paid for that. It wasn’t my fault and the dealership doesn’t have the balls to charge the customer for their stupid mistake or the decency to step up and absolve the cost and pay me. Illegal.
– Warranty work. We need an actual avenue to prove the manufacturer is screwing us. Case in point, the warranty cat I did in the last bulletin. Subaru pays 0.9 to replace the cat and reprogram the ECM. You have to reuse the heat shields from the old cat, because Subaru is too cheap to provide new ones. 0.9 is a pipe dream, we will pretend in Texas that it is possible. In New England, every single one of those bolts is rotted. You have to cut them out, and all the spot welds some independent muffler shop put on them to stop the infamous Subaru heat shield rattle. You have to do so without damaging the shields because you have to reuse them. This takes me anywhere from 1.5 to 2.3 to do from start to finish. What is my legal avenue to force Subaru to pay me for these severe conditions? None.
– Requiring me to be there for 50 hours but taking home 30 hour paychecks. It should be required that I have to be paid minimum wage for every hour I am required to be there. In my state that is 7.75. So if I am there for 50 hours and flag 30, I should be paid my flag rate at 30 and 20 hours at minimum wage.
California state law says that if a tech is flat rate and required to provide his own tools, he must be paid 2x the state minimum wage. Why isn’t this a law everywhere?
Once we fix the above, flat rate complaints will go away. Until then, it sucks, pays horribly and makes this career a joke.
I don’t post here much anymore. In fact quite a few techs here are at odds with the community and some of Eric’s opinions and responses on this. I have started a technician Facebook group with many of the and other techs to discuss these topics, and it is going fairly well. From this I have learned what the issues are with the system. It’s that there are no labor protections for us and the dealerships and manufacturers know this an abuse it.
We need to effectively be able to address the following problems, on a legal scale and force the dealerships and manufacturers to follow the law and that is, they cannot require you to work for free. I am not referring to you taking an hour on a job that pays 0.5, that just means you need to pick up the pace or gain more experience, I mean:
– MPIs, the dealership agrees to do them for free, not us, if you say it takes 0.1 to do one and I have to do one every car, but you don’t pay me 0.1, you are breaking the law. Period. I don’t get paid for my MPIs. And I will be willing to lie and say yes it only takes 0.1, and last week I worked on 63 cars, that is 6.3 hours of work I did not get paid for. Illegal.
– Diagnostics. My dealership seems to think it is free. That it is fine to not pay me for work. Test drives, no monetary compensation, pulling a car in to find out why a TPMS light is on and having to just put air in the tires is work. It takes time. You want to cover it for the customer fine, but you have to pay me to do it. Not paying me is illegal. Case in point, I did a warrant cat last week (another BS thing I will address in a second) and the customer came back yesterday with a check engine light, blaming me. If it’s a comeback, than it is on me if I screwed up. Scan the code, large evap leak, check the gas cap and yep, customer didn’t tighten it down. I now make a habit of running time from the moment I pick up the RO and walk to the car. It took me 0.2 to scan that code and tighten the cap and clear the code. I didn’t get paid for that. It wasn’t my fault and the dealership doesn’t have the balls to charge the customer for their stupid mistake or the decency to step up and absolve the cost and pay me. Illegal.
– Warranty work. We need an actual avenue to prove the manufacturer is screwing us. Case in point, the warranty cat I did in the last bulletin. Subaru pays 0.9 to replace the cat and reprogram the ECM. You have to reuse the heat shields from the old cat, because Subaru is too cheap to provide new ones. 0.9 is a pipe dream, we will pretend in Texas that it is possible. In New England, every single one of those bolts is rotted. You have to cut them out, and all the spot welds some independent muffler shop put on them to stop the infamous Subaru heat shield rattle. You have to do so without damaging the shields because you have to reuse them. This takes me anywhere from 1.5 to 2.3 to do from start to finish. What is my legal avenue to force Subaru to pay me for these severe conditions? None.
– Requiring me to be there for 50 hours but taking home 30 hour paychecks. It should be required that I have to be paid minimum wage for every hour I am required to be there. In my state that is 7.75. So if I am there for 50 hours and flag 30, I should be paid my flag rate at 30 and 20 hours at minimum wage.
California state law says that if a tech is flat rate and required to provide his own tools, he must be paid 2x the state minimum wage. Why isn’t this a law everywhere?
Once we fix the above, flat rate complaints will go away. Until then, it sucks, pays horribly and makes this career a joke.
Your chart is misleading.
-40 F is well below the temperature range that the viscosity ratings on oil are aimed at, in fact any one with your best interests at heart would tell you at -40 F, don’t even start your car, no matter the oil.
But what do you expect from an advertisement.
Your chart is misleading.
-40 F is well below the temperature range that the viscosity ratings on oil are aimed at, in fact any one with your best interests at heart would tell you at -40 F, don’t even start your car, no matter the oil.
But what do you expect from an advertisement.
That’s not true. All oils are rated in weight cold and warm. The 5w in 5w-30 is the cold weight, so 5w-30 synthetic or conventional, has the same viscosity cold.
That’s not true. All oils are rated in weight cold and warm. The 5w in 5w-30 is the cold weight, so 5w-30 synthetic or conventional, has the same viscosity cold.
Like, I said, you are free to do whatever you want with your car, but stop passing bad advice to people here.
If you want to have longer engine life, and not come and see me at the dealership for a new engine at 41K miles because you thought changing just the filter was enough? Change your oil as recommended by the manufacturer.
If you want to test fate and hopefully be the 1 in a million who has no problems by just trusting an oil filter will do the trick, and then eventually be the person paying me 2500.00+ for a new engine, try this.
I, as a certified technician, advise everyone to change their oil and not just their filter. Detergents, anti-rust additives, etc. will break down. Why risk it on the hopes that a quart of new oil at a time is going to protect you. Cars are thousands of dollar investments, a proper oil change is the cheapest and most proven insurance you can buy.
Like, I said, you are free to do whatever you want with your car, but stop passing bad advice to people here.
If you want to have longer engine life, and not come and see me at the dealership for a new engine at 41K miles because you thought changing just the filter was enough? Change your oil as recommended by the manufacturer.
If you want to test fate and hopefully be the 1 in a million who has no problems by just trusting an oil filter will do the trick, and then eventually be the person paying me 2500.00+ for a new engine, try this.
I, as a certified technician, advise everyone to change their oil and not just their filter. Detergents, anti-rust additives, etc. will break down. Why risk it on the hopes that a quart of new oil at a time is going to protect you. Cars are thousands of dollar investments, a proper oil change is the cheapest and most proven insurance you can buy.
You are free to do with your car as you please, but please do not suggest people do what and entire industry tells you not to do.
You change your oil because it gets dirty, and no oil filter is 100% effective. You also change it because the additives, such as the detergent, do still break down.
The engineers who made cars, including cars that take synthetic from factory, know what they are talking about. So do the companies who make the oil and all the scientists they employ. So do most of the technicians who have to deal with people who hold the crazy beliefs you just posted.
Here is what Royal Purple has to say:
“Royal Purple suggests adhering to manufacturer’s recommended oil change intervals for vehicles under warranty using its API-LICENSED SAE engine oils. With Royal Purple HPS, drain intervals may be extended to 12,000 miles (20,000 Km) or one year, whichever occurs first in street-driven, mechanically-sound vehicles. For guidelines specific to your vehicle, we recommend contacting our TECHNICAL DEPARTMENT.”
You are free to do with your car as you please, but please do not suggest people do what and entire industry tells you not to do.
You change your oil because it gets dirty, and no oil filter is 100% effective. You also change it because the additives, such as the detergent, do still break down.
The engineers who made cars, including cars that take synthetic from factory, know what they are talking about. So do the companies who make the oil and all the scientists they employ. So do most of the technicians who have to deal with people who hold the crazy beliefs you just posted.
Here is what Royal Purple has to say:
“Royal Purple suggests adhering to manufacturer’s recommended oil change intervals for vehicles under warranty using its API-LICENSED SAE engine oils. With Royal Purple HPS, drain intervals may be extended to 12,000 miles (20,000 Km) or one year, whichever occurs first in street-driven, mechanically-sound vehicles. For guidelines specific to your vehicle, we recommend contacting our TECHNICAL DEPARTMENT.”