Forum Replies Created
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I’ll do your job better than you do it. When do you want to trade? How’s Tuesday sound? I have a guy who needs me to put a 92 engine in his 97 Eclipse. I figure since we have it so easy you can come on in and show us how it’s done.
Quoted From 3SheetsDiesel:
SpawnedX, I’m a mechanic who hates working on cars. I’m only doing it because I’m stuck in this line of work until I get my security license and get hired on with a security company. My wife already does security as an unarmed guard, but we can’t survive on her income alone, so once she gets hired by an armed security company and starts drawing a paycheck, then I’m going to get hired by an armed company and stop turning a wrench for a living. Actually, let me ammend that first sentence. I don’t hate working on cars. I hate working on other people’s cars. They don’t do the maintenance recommended by the manufacturer, they don’t fix the little problems that I point out before they become big problems, and then they act all surprised when their car shits the bed and leaves them on the side of the road needing $2000 worth of work to fix. I think the saying is “An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure”.Finally, I don’t expect people to bring their cars to my shop and spend all sorts of money every time they come through the door. I know that it’s expensive paying someone to fix your rustbucket for you. I understand that. But we’re human, just like everyone else. We’re not mind-readers, so when you (speaking to a person who’s going to be a customer at any automotive shop) come to us with a problem, tell us what the problem is, not what you think will fix it. “I’ve got a check engine light on” is a lot more helpful than “My car doesn’t work right”. Also, please answer our questions to the best of your ability. I’m going to write out two example conversations, one good, one bad. Sadly, the bad one is a lot more common in this field.
I know how you feel, I am in the industry with you. I am just sick and tired of people who think we aren’t allowed to vent about bad customers when they feel they are allowed to vent about every bad worker they come across in their day, whether it be the 8.00 an hour burger flipper or the 9.00 an hour oil lube tech, or the actual automotive service technician.
Some customers have become really crummy, and I mean really crummy. Some people in this forum need to be forced to work at Burger King or Jiffy Lube for a few weeks so they can actually see how disgusting more and more people are becoming in how they treat the person behind the counter or on the phone. If someone wants to be treated with respect then treat the other person with respect. If you want to come into a shop and tell them that your car wouldn’t start this morning and that you need a new battery, and then tell the tech or service writer who is trying to explain to you why before we check the battery we would like to check for a parasitic drain or bad alternator, and you act like a jerk saying things like “my brother’s, wife’s, cousin’s, neighbor’s, son’s, friend’s, father” is a mechanic and this is what he said needed to be done so just do it, then get lost. All you are going to do is come back and blame tech A in a few days when your car is dead again because you refused to let us address the condition that caused the original problem. Even more importantly, why don’t you just go to awesome know-it-all brother’s, wife’s, cousin’s, neighbor’s, son’s, friend’s father mechanic?
But hey, whatever, keep attacking the tech’s on this forum for venting a little bit with other tech’s and car enthusiasts, eventually these people will have managed to anger us all and get none of their questions answered until poor Eric can finally get around to the 100s of weekly questions people ask.
Quoted From twiggy02919:
SPAWNEDX its obvious who is struggling here and hates their job and people who aren’t genetically perfect.
I don’t know any mechanics who hate working on cars, that’s their job, educating customers on automotive repair is not their job, that’s for teachers at schools. I also don’t know any mechanic who has a problem explaining why something has to be fixed. If you aren’t genetically perfect, than you shouldn’t walk into a shop and think you know it all when you get an answer you don’t like. If you knew better than the mechanic, you wouldn’t be there to begin with.
I wonder if you tell the doctor how to do his job too, probably explains the horrible condition of most Americans health.
Quoted From twiggy02919:
If you think I’m going come in your shop and kiss your ring and bow to the Almighty mechanic- not happening
Good.
Quoted From Chevypower:
I have to say that a good engine builder can make all kinds of power with forced induction. When a good engine builder knows what he is doing, and gets bukoo power out of an N/A engine, THEN he has something to say. Forced induction systems do all of the work for you. It takes knowledge and experience to make power in a N/A set up. I have never done it, but I hold more respect for a guy that can do that, than a guy who does it the easy way.
Oh, and it takes power to make power. Super charge it! Screw turbos with their lag. A blower will match boost directly to throttle response with no lag.
Either way, “Boost gets you laid.”
Come on man, you sound so uninformed and ignorant right now. If you think a turbocharge application is “easy” and simple to do, then do it, there is more math and supporting modifications needed to get a boosted application properly running. To top it all off, you now have added more potential issue points when diagnosing a condition. Both an N/A and a turbo require tuning, but go give a turbocharged car a whirl at tuning, you will be lost in a world of variables. If anything an N/A build is simpler.
As far as supercharge vs. turbocharge. Not going to go into too much detail, but each has it’s benefits and each has it’s downfall. Turbo lag isn’t always a bad thing.
The real question is, what do you want to do, N/A or turbo? What are your power goals. Using a lot of DSM stock parts on a d16 can get you really quick for really cheap. I had a huge post all typed up for you, but I went to delete a word and instead the backspace button went back a page and I lost it. I don’t have time to type it all back up right now, but I can answer your questions as they come:
The real question is, what do you want to do, N/A or turbo? What are your power goals. Using a lot of DSM stock parts on a d16 can get you really quick for really cheap. I had a huge post all typed up for you, but I went to delete a word and instead the backspace button went back a page and I lost it. I don’t have time to type it all back up right now, but I can answer your questions as they come:
Quoted From Chevypower:
I have to say that a good engine builder can make all kinds of power with forced induction. When a good engine builder knows what he is doing, and gets bukoo power out of an N/A engine, THEN he has something to say. Forced induction systems do all of the work for you. It takes knowledge and experience to make power in a N/A set up. I have never done it, but I hold more respect for a guy that can do that, than a guy who does it the easy way.
Oh, and it takes power to make power. Super charge it! Screw turbos with their lag. A blower will match boost directly to throttle response with no lag.
Either way, “Boost gets you laid.”
Come on man, you sound so uninformed and ignorant right now. If you think a turbocharge application is “easy” and simple to do, then do it, there is more math and supporting modifications needed to get a boosted application properly running. To top it all off, you now have added more potential issue points when diagnosing a condition. Both an N/A and a turbo require tuning, but go give a turbocharged car a whirl at tuning, you will be lost in a world of variables. If anything an N/A build is simpler.
As far as supercharge vs. turbocharge. Not going to go into too much detail, but each has it’s benefits and each has it’s downfall. Turbo lag isn’t always a bad thing.
Quoted From Chevypower:
It really burns my biscuit to see some jackass bad mouthing his customers. No offense sir, but that’s horse shit! Your whole mentality is going to foster the continued belief that we are ALL con artists who are trying to take advantage of a customer. I’m getting ready to graduate Tech school and start working, and it scares the hell out of me that I could end up with you for a mentor, or have you in my shop.
The fact of the matter is, when it comes to their car, most customers don’t know their ass from a hole in the ground. They have more important things to learn about, such as their own career. It is our DUTY to give them our best efforts at trying to explain to them why they are spending their hard earned money.
For example: Say a car comes into your shop on Monday and long story short, you have to flush the brake system due to water contamination. Fine. The customer pays, and leaves happy.
9 months later, the same car comes back with that all-too-familiar brake squeak. Now the customer is pissed because they just bought a fluid flush that they barely understood at the time, and they want to know why they need pads now. So you explain it to them. They don’t understand. You try a different approach. Nothing. What you have to realize is that, you can explain things to the customer all day long (and choke on Flat-Rape pay while doing so), but you can’t understand it for them. If you can’t convince the customer of the benefits from this or that particular service, you should smile, get it in writing that they refuse the service, and wish them a pleasant day.
You don’t have to be an asshole because the customer is an “idiot”, or a “know it all”. Obviously, they are showing confidence and trust in you, your abilities, your shop, and our profession as a whole. I think they showed us that when they brought their malfunctioning vehicle into the shop. The least you can do is be courteous and professional during your interaction with the customer and STOP giving the rest of us a bad name.
Pricks like you REALLY chap my ass and rub me the wrong way!
Now that my angry rant is over and done with: How may I (try to) assist you today?
Warmest wishes,
Jason
You are going to struggle in a shop environment.
Us DSMers and Evo guys use DSM Link (now known as ECM Link) we also use Ostrich with Jackal or Werewolf or TunerPro. We also use ECUFlash with 98-99 ECMs or all Evo ECMs. From there we step up to AEM EMS, a few of use MoTeC.
ECMLink is so good that other car brand enthusiasts are finding sways to swap our harnesses and ECUs into their vehicle to use it. More information on it can be found at http://www.ecmtuning.com .
Alright, I hate to step on anyone’s toes or upset people, but there is a lot of bad information in this thread. I mean A LOT of bad information. When it comes to turbochargers, I highly recommend inquiring with people very familiar with the systems, as in own them, they are a whole different breed.
First and foremost, we need to figure out if what you are referring to as turbo lag, is actually turbo lag, or is a boost leak. This would be the basic way to understand the two. Turbo lag is the period of time it takes for the engine to enter boost, not necessarily reach full boost, once the turbo starts making a slight amount of boost, it should continue to build boost at a rapid pace. So if what you are referring to as turbo lag is it is taking a long time for the car to actually get out of vacuum and into boost, than you are correct. If what you are referring to is it feels like it is bogging down or is taking a very long time to go from low boost to full boost, you are experiencing a boost leak and a boost leak test is in order (you should do this anyway on a regular basis with a turbocharged vehicle).
Now let’s talk a few other things.
Wastegates: Not really going to benefit turbo lag, even if it isn’t being actuated properly as mentioned above with being “4 PSI off.” The wastegate does not open or actuate until the car has already reached and begins to exceed the maximum boost pressure the spring in the wastagate/actuator is designed to handle. Now if that wastegate was stuck open it could create “turbo lag,” but that would be better defined as a pre-turbo leak, which is the same thing as a cracked turbine housing or exhaust manifold. This is a simplistic view on these things, but it is sufficient to get you to where you need to be.
BOV: Most vehicles don’t come with “blow off valves” and most aftermarket valves are not “blow off valves” they are compressor bypass valves. The real purpose of them is not to divert anything related to gas and it’s not to avoid damaging the engine, not really. It is actually for when the vehicle’s throttle plate is slammed shut, such as coming off the accelerator. There is still charged air in the intake with nowhere to go, so pressure builds up and backs up towards the compressor housing. This effect causes the compressor wheel to have opposing forces, air coming in from two sides, which may reverse the direction of the wheel itself. This is very bad for the turbo, not really the engine, and it results in the death of your turbo. This effect is known as “compressor surge.” As such, replacing it is not going to help you with turbo lag either.
The most simplistic way of explaining this is, anything not exhaust related is going to provide marginal, at best, if any, improvements to spool. Exhaust is where you need to start. Porting your exhaust manifold and turbine housing would help, but could also be detrimental depending on where you are at. However, removing as much restriction from the exhaust flow to allow the turbine housing to exhaust cooling exhaust gases for the new hot gases from the last exhaust stroke will help the most. I will avoid the science and leave it at, the expansion of heated gases helps spin the turbine wheel faster.
This means your benefits would come from a larger diameter downpipe and exhaust, removing or gutting the catalytic converter. The truth is, the catalytic converter being removed would actually get you the most gains. It is also usually illegal. Do at your own risk.
As far as your intercooler goes, you probably have an air-to-air intercooler, not many, if any, stock cars come with water-to-air intercoolers. Air-to-air is more efficient for constant use on the vehicle. Performance based systems, like purpose built drag racing cars, are better off using water-to-air, and most of them actually use a blow through setup, as in no intercooler system at all. Upgrading this will not really help with your lag either. In fact it could be detrimental to your performance, as it could account for more pressure drop.
Boost controller also won’t really do you much.
Us DSMers and Evo guys use DSM Link (now known as ECM Link) we also use Ostrich with Jackal or Werewolf or TunerPro. We also use ECUFlash with 98-99 ECMs or all Evo ECMs. From there we step up to AEM EMS, a few of use MoTeC.
ECMLink is so good that other car brand enthusiasts are finding sways to swap our harnesses and ECUs into their vehicle to use it. More information on it can be found at http://www.ecmtuning.com .