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Recommendations Eric, not up-sells. Unwarranted fluid flushes at Jiffy Lube is what people think about when they hear up-sells.
Recommendations Eric, not up-sells. Unwarranted fluid flushes at Jiffy Lube is what people think about when they hear up-sells.
I am a heavy advocate for techs, after all, I run the largest Facebook group of automotive repair professionals. So I want to make that clear, no smoke and mirrors. On-the-other-hand, I am also a customer in many other markets, so there is no way I could NOT know what it is like to be in the customer’s shoes, but I am very confident that most customers do not know what it is like to be in the shop/technician shoes.
That stated, customers have become tyrannical. It has gotten to the point that out of fear of a bad online review, businesses bend to customers when they should not (there are plenty of times a business should, yes, but many more times when they should not). It seems customers have forgotten that a business exists to make money, not provide charity. Every store you buy from is doing exactly what that shop is doing with parts, buying at a lower price and selling at a markup for profit. Every store. Even Walmart.
I understand people come on hard times, and with-in reason we can try to ease the financial burden a bit, but not to the point of giving it away at a loss. A lot of people cannot see outside their own myopic point of view in the situation. The world is harsh, and sometimes your problem, is not their problem and you are not owed a break.
I now work at an independent shop, but before that I was at a Hyundai dealership. Our overhead each month was north of 40,000 dollars just for service alone. That means we were in the red until we made 40,000.01 dollars or more. That is more than most people visiting this forum will make in a year. Parts and labor are expensive, because keeping that door open is just as expensive and once again a business exists for profits, that is the whole entire point of our capitalistic country.
On the topic of providing your own parts, sure, but you are paying more in labor and getting no guarantee on the part. Why? Because just last month a customer brought me his cheap Duralast rotors and pads for his GTP and after I was done with the work, I test drove it as usual, and the new rotors were warped horrifically out of the box, 5 thousandths if I recall correctly. I had to go and turn his new cheap rotors with less than 3 miles on them, and that time is money, and that money was made up in the extra labor he paid for providing his own parts.
Another example I can think of is when the customer demanded we use these cheap economy pads. After test driving it and getting the pads hot, they were groaning on lingering brake situations. The guy kept coming back to complain and wanting it fixed, well who is going to pay us to take it all apart again and put another set of pads in? It’s not our fault and we didn’t provide the pads.
Everyone thinks that we as mechanics save so much money as well. It’s not true. The total cost of a 4 wheel brake job with the cheap-o parts the customer wants came to almost the same price as new Centric Premium rotors, StopTech pads, OEM brake clips and new SS brake lines I bought for my car, but I also believe in quality parts, which is why my car runs reliably.
So if you want those cheap parts as mentioned above, fine, but they will cost you one way or the other.
Another thing I want to touch on is the DIY aspect of things. Everyone thinks that the job takes so little time because they did it in so little time. Sure you did your brakes in 25-30 minutes, but I guarantee you did not do the job I would have done. I grease your slides, replace the grommet on the pin with a new, get you new dust boots for the slides, use a needle scaler or handheld belt sander to clean the clip lands on the caliper bracket, apply grease to prevent corrosion build up, properly grease the clips, the ears of the pads, where the caliper ears and piston meet the rear of the pads. I Roloc down your hub faces where the rotor sits, both rotor faces if I am turning them, the face of the wheel that sits against the rotor, all to make sure there is no noise and/or runout from corrosion. I torque your bolts to spec, and your lug nuts, using a 3/8″ torque wrench and/or 1/2″ torque wrench that cost me $600.00 each to make sure you get a professionally completed job that will stay quiet and smooth well beyond that job you did in your backyard and I guarantee that. That is why my service costs what it does, because it is professional quality.
One other thing on the DIY aspect, the shortcut you may take, while reasonable and safe, say zip tying something into place or cutting a small easy access hole, is not a luxury I have. I have to give you the car back fixed properly and in better shape than you gave it to me. So yes that shortcut may have saved you a ton of time and made the job seem like it took a lot less time than what we charged for, but that’s because you had the luxury of doing a step we do not. I am sure you would not be very happy if I cut an access hole into your cabin to save time.
I am a heavy advocate for techs, after all, I run the largest Facebook group of automotive repair professionals. So I want to make that clear, no smoke and mirrors. On-the-other-hand, I am also a customer in many other markets, so there is no way I could NOT know what it is like to be in the customer’s shoes, but I am very confident that most customers do not know what it is like to be in the shop/technician shoes.
That stated, customers have become tyrannical. It has gotten to the point that out of fear of a bad online review, businesses bend to customers when they should not (there are plenty of times a business should, yes, but many more times when they should not). It seems customers have forgotten that a business exists to make money, not provide charity. Every store you buy from is doing exactly what that shop is doing with parts, buying at a lower price and selling at a markup for profit. Every store. Even Walmart.
I understand people come on hard times, and with-in reason we can try to ease the financial burden a bit, but not to the point of giving it away at a loss. A lot of people cannot see outside their own myopic point of view in the situation. The world is harsh, and sometimes your problem, is not their problem and you are not owed a break.
I now work at an independent shop, but before that I was at a Hyundai dealership. Our overhead each month was north of 40,000 dollars just for service alone. That means we were in the red until we made 40,000.01 dollars or more. That is more than most people visiting this forum will make in a year. Parts and labor are expensive, because keeping that door open is just as expensive and once again a business exists for profits, that is the whole entire point of our capitalistic country.
On the topic of providing your own parts, sure, but you are paying more in labor and getting no guarantee on the part. Why? Because just last month a customer brought me his cheap Duralast rotors and pads for his GTP and after I was done with the work, I test drove it as usual, and the new rotors were warped horrifically out of the box, 5 thousandths if I recall correctly. I had to go and turn his new cheap rotors with less than 3 miles on them, and that time is money, and that money was made up in the extra labor he paid for providing his own parts.
Another example I can think of is when the customer demanded we use these cheap economy pads. After test driving it and getting the pads hot, they were groaning on lingering brake situations. The guy kept coming back to complain and wanting it fixed, well who is going to pay us to take it all apart again and put another set of pads in? It’s not our fault and we didn’t provide the pads.
Everyone thinks that we as mechanics save so much money as well. It’s not true. The total cost of a 4 wheel brake job with the cheap-o parts the customer wants came to almost the same price as new Centric Premium rotors, StopTech pads, OEM brake clips and new SS brake lines I bought for my car, but I also believe in quality parts, which is why my car runs reliably.
So if you want those cheap parts as mentioned above, fine, but they will cost you one way or the other.
Another thing I want to touch on is the DIY aspect of things. Everyone thinks that the job takes so little time because they did it in so little time. Sure you did your brakes in 25-30 minutes, but I guarantee you did not do the job I would have done. I grease your slides, replace the grommet on the pin with a new, get you new dust boots for the slides, use a needle scaler or handheld belt sander to clean the clip lands on the caliper bracket, apply grease to prevent corrosion build up, properly grease the clips, the ears of the pads, where the caliper ears and piston meet the rear of the pads. I Roloc down your hub faces where the rotor sits, both rotor faces if I am turning them, the face of the wheel that sits against the rotor, all to make sure there is no noise and/or runout from corrosion. I torque your bolts to spec, and your lug nuts, using a 3/8″ torque wrench and/or 1/2″ torque wrench that cost me $600.00 each to make sure you get a professionally completed job that will stay quiet and smooth well beyond that job you did in your backyard and I guarantee that. That is why my service costs what it does, because it is professional quality.
One other thing on the DIY aspect, the shortcut you may take, while reasonable and safe, say zip tying something into place or cutting a small easy access hole, is not a luxury I have. I have to give you the car back fixed properly and in better shape than you gave it to me. So yes that shortcut may have saved you a ton of time and made the job seem like it took a lot less time than what we charged for, but that’s because you had the luxury of doing a step we do not. I am sure you would not be very happy if I cut an access hole into your cabin to save time.
I do not feel like I am being left behind. My thirst for knowledge is never quenched and as I go forward in my career and see the new technologies coming out with each model year, I continually research and study on my own. I always ensure my interest and desire to be on the top of the cutting edge is made aware to my service manager.
If you stay hungry for knowledge and take the initiative to learn and educate yourself both in the classroom and on your own time, you will never be outmoded.
I do not feel like I am being left behind. My thirst for knowledge is never quenched and as I go forward in my career and see the new technologies coming out with each model year, I continually research and study on my own. I always ensure my interest and desire to be on the top of the cutting edge is made aware to my service manager.
If you stay hungry for knowledge and take the initiative to learn and educate yourself both in the classroom and on your own time, you will never be outmoded.
I just want to post this, just to let you know that the rates for top rate technicians in shops are no longer at the levels you are familiar with.
Here is my shop, I will list technicians based on skill level and experience.
A Level Technician, Foreman, Subaru Master Tech Certified, 7 Years Experience: 20.00 Flat Rate Hourly
B Level Technician, Good Diagnostician, Subaru Certified Technician, 7 Years Experience: 17.00 Flat Rate Hourly
B Level Technician, Cannot Diagnose Anything, Subaru Certified Technician, 7 Years Experience: 16.00 Flat Rate Hourly
C Level Technician, Cannot Diagnose Anything, Not Certified, 3 Years Experience: 13.00 Flat Rate Hourly
C Level Technician, Good Diagnostician for Experience, Subaru Certified Technician, 1 Year Experience: 11.00 Flat Rate Hourly
My rate is not included in those. But I promise you I am not even close to making 25.00-26.00.
I just want to post this, just to let you know that the rates for top rate technicians in shops are no longer at the levels you are familiar with.
Here is my shop, I will list technicians based on skill level and experience.
A Level Technician, Foreman, Subaru Master Tech Certified, 7 Years Experience: 20.00 Flat Rate Hourly
B Level Technician, Good Diagnostician, Subaru Certified Technician, 7 Years Experience: 17.00 Flat Rate Hourly
B Level Technician, Cannot Diagnose Anything, Subaru Certified Technician, 7 Years Experience: 16.00 Flat Rate Hourly
C Level Technician, Cannot Diagnose Anything, Not Certified, 3 Years Experience: 13.00 Flat Rate Hourly
C Level Technician, Good Diagnostician for Experience, Subaru Certified Technician, 1 Year Experience: 11.00 Flat Rate Hourly
My rate is not included in those. But I promise you I am not even close to making 25.00-26.00.
340 members now, lot’s of personalities, seemingly able to keep it drama free thanks to a great admin staff. ETCGs very own dreamer is helping with the moderation.
340 members now, lot’s of personalities, seemingly able to keep it drama free thanks to a great admin staff. ETCGs very own dreamer is helping with the moderation.
[quote=”IAD_TDI” post=58847]I am a DIYer so I have a different angle at the Flat Rate System. It is a system to charge you more time then it takes to do the job. If any other profession charged that way they would be in court in a minute – the problem is not that it is flat rate but shops advertise shop hour/rate and charge you inflated hours. I had a friend that had to replace a fuel pump and was told that tank had to be lowered and it would take many hours of shop time, he had the shop manuals and they had that as a correct procedure/time. I told him that it could be done from the top and looked on the internet and found that there was a Panel so he bought the pump and one evening the two of us removed the back seat to get to the panel and replaced the pump in a couple of hours. Total cost $200 dollars for the part. Not bad for 2 DIYers.
I just have a problem on the inflated times. Yes you will get a bad one but then they/shop will say it took X hours. That has stopped because the quotes that were given, they can only go over by a certain purcentage. Now do I beleave that the techs saw that money – I know better. Tipping the mechanic is probably a great idea, but I dont think I have to tip everyone that I do busyness with. I did take a case of beer to a shop that did save me a few bucks.
ERIC your talked about a TDI, there is a GTG Impex TDI Fest in Baltimore MD area May 18. Check website TDIClub for info. Great event for the TDI DiYer, not a lot of wrenching, to big to do alot of that.
Eric you are right that this effects other professions, seen it happen in a commision dentistry shop – not a court issue just state labor people. The one way to make this work is to have a base rate that satisfies the governments and commision on jobs completed. Like changing every system some will make out better and others will lose. The problem that has to be solved is to get the work into the shop and this comes down to trust and fairness.[/quote]
I want to quote this post, because this post is the exact problem. You are so completely wrong it is not funny.
Book times are calculated as how long it will take 1 person, not a group of people, not 2, to do the job with hand tools. You are basically saying to punish the guy who bought bigger and better tools to do the job faster, to in turn increase his efficiency and paycheck. If people had it your way, you would all be DIYers, because no one would be a tech, that or, everyone would just use hand tools and get the maximum pay. How in your right mind you think it is fair that the guy with little investment in tools should be paid more because he takes longer, is beyond me.