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also. to elaborate some. I only turned the bolt maybe 3/4- 1 full (360) turn. I didn’t crank it tight. it only started to get snug. then just a tiny more past that before I stoped and seen what happened. I don’t know how thick the piston tops are on these motors. or how easy it would be to put cracks in one doing this type of thing. I also saw no aluminum on the threads or anything like that when I got it back out. but I did see a tiny spec of carbon on one thread. I am praying that maybe all that happened was the bolt did contact the piston, but only very slightly. and was mostly just stuck onto some carbon. and that’s why it didn’t just come right out. this engine has been running rich for awhile… but like I said, I did have to wiggle it a tiny bit to draw it back out…. I wish I could get a borescope that was worth anything cheaply. but im not sure if the $200 range ones would allow me to see much? anyone know much about the cheaper ones vision quality??
also. to elaborate some. I only turned the bolt maybe 3/4- 1 full (360) turn. I didn’t crank it tight. it only started to get snug. then just a tiny more past that before I stoped and seen what happened. I don’t know how thick the piston tops are on these motors. or how easy it would be to put cracks in one doing this type of thing. I also saw no aluminum on the threads or anything like that when I got it back out. but I did see a tiny spec of carbon on one thread. I am praying that maybe all that happened was the bolt did contact the piston, but only very slightly. and was mostly just stuck onto some carbon. and that’s why it didn’t just come right out. this engine has been running rich for awhile… but like I said, I did have to wiggle it a tiny bit to draw it back out…. I wish I could get a borescope that was worth anything cheaply. but im not sure if the $200 range ones would allow me to see much? anyone know much about the cheaper ones vision quality??
when i had the throttle body off it did seem like the intake was pretty dirty. but that still isnt gonna make compression go down. and where i live there isnt crappy gas and better gas. its all the same everywhere you go. and all the same price… its made right local too. in warren pa. from 100% north american oil. we probabaly only have like 10 gas stations within 15 miles. and they all get the stuff from the same distributor. so in bigger cities there is actually gas that is 40 cents cheaper per gallon? im suprised anyone buys the more expensive stuff. i guess i would only if it was 100% gasoline. our area has had 10% ethanol for over 2 years now. my carbureted cars dont like it much.
and the high idle problem went away after i replaced my ignition module. and so did the real low chuggy gonna quit stuff. now im just left with a slight mis. and it appears its being caused by the low compression. i put some marvel mystery oil and transmission fluid in the cylinders. and im gonna let it set a few days. then run the engine for awhile. hopefully it will free up anything that may be sticking. then ill recheck the compression. hopefully it improves. if not i may be looking at a scrap yard motor for $500…
when i had the throttle body off it did seem like the intake was pretty dirty. but that still isnt gonna make compression go down. and where i live there isnt crappy gas and better gas. its all the same everywhere you go. and all the same price… its made right local too. in warren pa. from 100% north american oil. we probabaly only have like 10 gas stations within 15 miles. and they all get the stuff from the same distributor. so in bigger cities there is actually gas that is 40 cents cheaper per gallon? im suprised anyone buys the more expensive stuff. i guess i would only if it was 100% gasoline. our area has had 10% ethanol for over 2 years now. my carbureted cars dont like it much.
and the high idle problem went away after i replaced my ignition module. and so did the real low chuggy gonna quit stuff. now im just left with a slight mis. and it appears its being caused by the low compression. i put some marvel mystery oil and transmission fluid in the cylinders. and im gonna let it set a few days. then run the engine for awhile. hopefully it will free up anything that may be sticking. then ill recheck the compression. hopefully it improves. if not i may be looking at a scrap yard motor for $500…
old gas wouldnt have anything to do with the low compression in two cylinders… it could cause a bit of a mis though. but no i didnt get the old gas out. there was about 1/4 of a tank. i added another 1/4 or more of fresh higher octane gas, and put in some injector cleaner… didnt seem to make any difference. i think ill try some marvel mystery oil, and transmission fluid in the cylinders and let it set for a couple days. then check it all over again. also do the leak down test. i am hoping that its just a head gasket. or else possibly carbon on the valves, or rings. it just seems to me that if the rings, or valves were completely bad the compression would be alot lower. 130-140 isnt super low. for this engine its pretty low… but when you have a real problem usually redaings will be below 100. sometimes even like 40psi. and with this engine only having 112k miles it just seems weird to me that it would be rings. cause these 1.9’s are supposed to run well into 200k. so i guess we’ll see. i kinda just wanted some imput from people who have had experience with these saturns. wondered if this was a common issue for whatever reason. id love to get it on the road, drive it for a few months and then sell it. id make a killing seeing as i only paid scrap price for it. and it books at about 3 grand. id be asking about 2 for it. its a really nice car. so im hoping i wont have to put a used engine in it. truthfuly i dont even have the $500 it would take to get another engine for it…
old gas wouldnt have anything to do with the low compression in two cylinders… it could cause a bit of a mis though. but no i didnt get the old gas out. there was about 1/4 of a tank. i added another 1/4 or more of fresh higher octane gas, and put in some injector cleaner… didnt seem to make any difference. i think ill try some marvel mystery oil, and transmission fluid in the cylinders and let it set for a couple days. then check it all over again. also do the leak down test. i am hoping that its just a head gasket. or else possibly carbon on the valves, or rings. it just seems to me that if the rings, or valves were completely bad the compression would be alot lower. 130-140 isnt super low. for this engine its pretty low… but when you have a real problem usually redaings will be below 100. sometimes even like 40psi. and with this engine only having 112k miles it just seems weird to me that it would be rings. cause these 1.9’s are supposed to run well into 200k. so i guess we’ll see. i kinda just wanted some imput from people who have had experience with these saturns. wondered if this was a common issue for whatever reason. id love to get it on the road, drive it for a few months and then sell it. id make a killing seeing as i only paid scrap price for it. and it books at about 3 grand. id be asking about 2 for it. its a really nice car. so im hoping i wont have to put a used engine in it. truthfuly i dont even have the $500 it would take to get another engine for it…
i am about 99% sure it was the correct sensor. as there are only 2 sensors on this van. one before the cat, and one after. and the codes are for the one after… so unless there is a fantom oxygen sensor hanging around somewhere. its the right one.
i am not totaly sure how to go about checking for 12 volts. would i just unplug the sensor, turn the key on, and then test between the two wire connections?
another thing that is funny is how eric says in his video about the heater circuit being the two wires that are th same color. well that isnt the case with these ones. because the original sensor had 2 brown wires. but they were both for different circuits.
another thing to mention. i have the old sensor setting here. and i first tested between the two brown wires, nothing. then i tested between the other two (cant remember color right off) and nothing there either. but when i test one brown wire, and one of the other wires i will get some resistence. between the one circuit its like only a few ohms. but when i test between the other circuit the ohms will start out being maybe around 5 ohm. but the longer i hold it there they will just keep climbing. i am not sure what to make of that… but even if that sensor was bad. i put a new one in and have the same issue… so i am inclined to think the sensor was not the issue. unless SOMEHOW i bought a brand new one that was also bad.
i am not sure what fuses to look at… would i just have to check all of them??
also before anyone asks. no its not plugged in wrong. there is one 1 way to plug it in.
what i really need is a wiring diagram. so i can trace the wire for this thing. because i know that has to be the problem. i am really bad at electrical issues… so you can imagine how much i hate having to mess with new cars…..
i am about 99% sure it was the correct sensor. as there are only 2 sensors on this van. one before the cat, and one after. and the codes are for the one after… so unless there is a fantom oxygen sensor hanging around somewhere. its the right one.
i am not totaly sure how to go about checking for 12 volts. would i just unplug the sensor, turn the key on, and then test between the two wire connections?
another thing that is funny is how eric says in his video about the heater circuit being the two wires that are th same color. well that isnt the case with these ones. because the original sensor had 2 brown wires. but they were both for different circuits.
another thing to mention. i have the old sensor setting here. and i first tested between the two brown wires, nothing. then i tested between the other two (cant remember color right off) and nothing there either. but when i test one brown wire, and one of the other wires i will get some resistence. between the one circuit its like only a few ohms. but when i test between the other circuit the ohms will start out being maybe around 5 ohm. but the longer i hold it there they will just keep climbing. i am not sure what to make of that… but even if that sensor was bad. i put a new one in and have the same issue… so i am inclined to think the sensor was not the issue. unless SOMEHOW i bought a brand new one that was also bad.
i am not sure what fuses to look at… would i just have to check all of them??
also before anyone asks. no its not plugged in wrong. there is one 1 way to plug it in.
what i really need is a wiring diagram. so i can trace the wire for this thing. because i know that has to be the problem. i am really bad at electrical issues… so you can imagine how much i hate having to mess with new cars…..
the intake gasket very well could have a leak. and that may be what is causing my erradic idle issues. but im pretty sure it wouldnt cause the p0340 code… ill check it with some carb cleaner when i mess with it again. i think the garden hose idea is very bad. i wouldnt want to get water into my engine like that if it was leaking. if anything you would want to use a spray bottle with some water it in. but i much rather use a substance that will ignite once in the engine… plus in the middle of winter where i am at, there are no such things as running outdoor hoses… although we did just have a crazy heat wave… im sure ill figure it out eventually. i think what i really need is a factory service manual. haynes books just suck. i might just try and get an ignition module coil pack set from a junk yard if its cheep enough. although who knows, it may too be bad. i think this is kind of a common problem with these saturns. i will also clean my throttle body… but i know that with those codes there is an ignition issue…. and since i already cleaned everything, put in new plugs and wires… it must be the coils, ignition module, or pcm… god i hope its not the pcm! hahaha
the intake gasket very well could have a leak. and that may be what is causing my erradic idle issues. but im pretty sure it wouldnt cause the p0340 code… ill check it with some carb cleaner when i mess with it again. i think the garden hose idea is very bad. i wouldnt want to get water into my engine like that if it was leaking. if anything you would want to use a spray bottle with some water it in. but i much rather use a substance that will ignite once in the engine… plus in the middle of winter where i am at, there are no such things as running outdoor hoses… although we did just have a crazy heat wave… im sure ill figure it out eventually. i think what i really need is a factory service manual. haynes books just suck. i might just try and get an ignition module coil pack set from a junk yard if its cheep enough. although who knows, it may too be bad. i think this is kind of a common problem with these saturns. i will also clean my throttle body… but i know that with those codes there is an ignition issue…. and since i already cleaned everything, put in new plugs and wires… it must be the coils, ignition module, or pcm… god i hope its not the pcm! hahaha
i forgot. i also want to note that the car has a bit of a rough idle. and when it gets warm it has a misfire. but not so much when first started and cold. sometimes only a slight mis, and others a very pronounced constant one. also the idle can become erradic at times. sometimes it will want to stick at around 2000rpm and just stay there. other times it will drop down and almost quit, but then bounce back up again on its own… it also seems to idle lower than it really is. say like at 750-800rpm on the tach, it will sound and act more like its at 450-500 rpm… but if i hold the peddle steady at a constant higher rpm it runs very well… also this car has a manual transmission… also i did put a brand new battery in…
i forgot. i also want to note that the car has a bit of a rough idle. and when it gets warm it has a misfire. but not so much when first started and cold. sometimes only a slight mis, and others a very pronounced constant one. also the idle can become erradic at times. sometimes it will want to stick at around 2000rpm and just stay there. other times it will drop down and almost quit, but then bounce back up again on its own… it also seems to idle lower than it really is. say like at 750-800rpm on the tach, it will sound and act more like its at 450-500 rpm… but if i hold the peddle steady at a constant higher rpm it runs very well… also this car has a manual transmission… also i did put a brand new battery in…
maybe you would be better off getting a used engine from a scrap yard… a 3.9 might be hard to come by, but a 225 or 318 should be easy and cheap to find…
hey Eric, i have a related question. i plan on replacing my timing set but i figure while i do that it would also be a good time to replace my lifters. i have 1 or 2 that tick pretty bad on a cold start. it goes away after the car warms up. it usually only takes a couple minutes. before it stops. what i wonder is how long does that have to usually go on for it to score the cam lobes enough to were you also need to replace the cam? i would love it if i only had to do the lifters. because to replace the cam i would have to take alot of stuff off the front end of the car. i know the only real way to know would be to take the intake off and try and get a look. but i just wonder from your experience does it take long when you have lifter issues for it to damage the cam also? the engine isnt running rough like the cam is worn any… but i just wonder what you have run into with this situation…?
ok Eric. last night i went out and tried to do some more testing on the car. i got it up to operating temperature. then i hooked up a tach/timing light , and then i disconnected the vacuum line that runs from the carburetor base plate to the vacuum transducer on the computer. i hooked a vacuum gauge on end of this line. then i put my vacuum hand pump in place of the regular vacuum line, and hooked that to the transducer. i figured what i would do is see what my vacuum readings looked like, and then put that same amount into the transducer via the pump. all the while checking to see where the timing was. i began to notice that any time i would give the transducer on the computer the same vacuum that my vacuum gauge was showing the engine was producing, it would ping pretty bad. and it would advance the timing farther than i could see. granted the timing scale on this car is pretty stupid. and you cannot tell where its at beyond about 15 degrees advanced. then i started letting vacuum out of the pump slowly. and it would stop pinging when i would get to about 5 in vacuum. problem is the engine was producing about 20-22 inches of vacuum… im really not sure what this means… but i thought it was interesting. also when you set the timing on this car, you are supposed to disconnect the vacuum line from the transducer and plug it. then set timing. because once you plug it back in, it always causes the timing to advance beyond what you can see..
i also tested the timing chain stretch, right. i lined the timing mark up with 0. turning the crank one way. then i turned it the other way till i saw the rotor move. i then looked at the timing scale and the mark had moved about 12-13 degrees! so yeah. i would imagine i really do need to put a timing set on. but i still wonder how that could be making this pre detonation ping? could you explain to me how the chain slack could be causing this issue??? and what, if anything, my vacuum pump test indicated?
i swear. this car is haunted. it gets so irritating. because i will think i have things sorted out, then the next time i go start it up its got a whole new set of issues. its never the same car it seems like. and its like im always chasing my tail with it. never getting anywhere, just going in circles. and testing, and re testing, and coming up with new tests, that im not quite sure what they mean haha… it drives me nuts! i think im just gonna have to do the chain and gears and then see if anything is better. if its still not then i REALLY dont know where to go. looks like ill have to rig up some sort of tarp over top of my car today and try to get this done! along with the foot of snow…