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I should explain why the battery had been disconnected. I bought this car 2 weeks ago,during the test drive i noticed the rear whiper spray fucntion did not work. This was not a concern to me so i bought the car. Last weekend i was looking in to this and noticed the pump for the rear whiper fluid was unplugged. Before putting it back on there i wanted to know how many (mili) amps the car was using witth the pump disconnected (key in off position), it was near very near zero).
Then i plugged in the pump, tested again. No change to the amps. The spray nozzle still did not work, but i decided to leave this for a warmer day and unplugged it again. The situation before and after is as far as i can see 100% the same. I do have to say that i have not driven this car in such low temperatures before, but that doesn’t seem like a logical explanation really.I recalled from the cars manual that you’re supposed to let it sit idle for 10-15 mins after the battery has been disconnected. A quick google search turned up many pages like this http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f75/how-idle-re-learn-after-battery-disconnect-154161/ about ‘re-learning’ idle settings and such too, with the complaint beeing engines that wouldn’t idle properly.
By now i have disconnected the battery for 30 mins orso, let it idle for 20 minutes, then let it cool down and went for a drive.
Sadly the issue remains.
Came to a stop about 30 times, stalled 3 times. The other times it would self correct in 5 to 20 seconds. And then it would idle smoothly. The times it stalled it started right back up (by turning the key), and idled at 800 rpm after that. It really only happens after you’ve lifted of the gas pedal, like when you’re slowing down for a red light.
I know this car is equiped with a solenoid plunger for idle control, and a temperature operated/mechanical choke valve. But it seems odd for that to only misbehave in specific circumstances.
I have gone trough the faq pages before, i find it hard to understand why it does ‘self-correct’, but takes 3-4 to get it right, but then right after you start it its 100% fine. If you put on the a/c and the lights it will regulated itself gently back to 800rpm.
Hope this clearifies the situation.
Thanks for the info JC822, I’ve just found and ordered a kit with a UV torch from a little closer to home.
Time for an update on the coolant situation. Tuesday morning, after 3-4 drives and a total of 100 km or so I had to add about 0,5 liter of coolant to the radiator. On my way to work I picked up a new radiator cap, just to rule it out. Situation since does not appears to have changed. When the engine is hot, the coolant is up to the drain of the overflow tank, when the system cools down it does pull back a sizable volume of coolant, but with each drive more air remains in the radiator.
The cap of the expansion tank fits snugly, no signs of leaking anywhere except via the drain/overflow tube behind the bumper, the hose from the radiator to the expansion tank has no signs of wear or anything. Connections at both ends are on so securely it would probably even be fine without the hose clamps. Really don’t belief there is anything wrong at that side of the system.
The coolant UV dye should be here some time next week. Not all that convinced it will help me, but for roughly 25 usd for a small bottle of coolant dye + a led uv torch its worth a shot. Still in doubt what I’ll do in case I still can’t find it, either taking it to a garage, midlock’s chemical reaction tester (to tell me if this air in the system comes from combustion yes or no) or the coolant system pressure tester.
Both tests have their pro’s and con’s, and I don’t like to go to a garage for non-urgent problems. I should be able to figure this out :blush: I think the pressure tester would prove itself to be useful again, on some future car or motorcycle. But given air/gas makes its way in to the pressurized system the chemical test might be a more logic choice in this specific case. I’ll take some time to think about it while waiting for the dye.
The oil (cap) looks fine, forgot to mention that. Also used a lighter to see if the oil on my dip would ‘crackle’.. doesn’t (although maybe that should be tested with a bit more oil). For what its worth its been on 10w-40 semi synthetic as prescribed at least for the past 3 years and it runs as smoothly as i’d expect it too. And as far as I can tell its just as slow as its always been :side: tricky to tell if such things happen gradually of course.
I’ve been looking for such a UV test kit, but all my regular tool shops seem to only sell something specifically for a/c systems. Got a suggestion for a specific brand that i could find a reseller for? It does seem like a more versatile sort of test then for example midlock’s chemical test kit.
In the red box in the picture you can see there is a rectangle of plastic missing. If you look just right of the box, where the plastic ends and the aluminium begins.. and then follow that edge in to the box, you’ll see at one point it goes up towards the ‘ring’ on which the radiator cap seals the pressurized system. But like I said, I don’t think it would effect function of the cap in any way.
Just taken a look now that it has cooled down. Radiator hoses are soft, top of the radiator is down a few cm (level is 1cm above the aluminium bits). and the level in the expansion tank has lowered a bit.
So some fluid did return at least. The cap on the overflow tank, the tube and the connections from radiator cap to the tank look fine for all I can tell.
Did notice something while filling the radiator today, although I didn’t think it was significant, as the sealing surface looks and feels 100% intact. Below the ring some plastic is missing. Here is a picture:
(EDIT: Red coolant isn’t right for this car, I was given half a bottle by a friend. Couldn’t tell the color in the container so i poured in a bit to check. There is maybe a teaspoon in there.. took the picture right after doing that. Wrong coolant type is not something that has caused this)
A cooling system pressure tester is cheaper then I thought. Might actually buy it, seems like something that will come in handy more then twice in my life. For about the same money there is also midlocks chemical tester. More specific (head gasket failure detection only, not general coolant leaks) but possibly that is more useful when buying a used car. I guess the question is will a head gasket failure ‘very likely’ show up with a cooling system pressure test, since its pressure is so small compared to combustion chamber pressures under load.
Okey did the test again today, cold and dry and cold and ‘wet’.
PSI / BAR) 1 – 2 – 3 – 4
Warm + Dry
200/14.0 – 175/12.2 – 175/12.1 – 175/12.2
Cold + Dry
195/13.5.0 – 175/12.0 – 175/12.2 – 175/12.0
Cold + Wet
210/14.5 – 180/12.5 – 200/14.0 – 195/13.5
I’m not sure what to conclude from this. Cylinder two’s response to the introduction of some oil (I used a syringe, all got the same amount of oil squirted in).
Aside from this I have shortened my lower radiator hose just enough to have a ‘new’ surface covering the outlet pipe on the radiator. This fits a bit more snugly then before.
Not sure how to test a radiator cap (if possible/worth the time) but I’ve put mine on a scale, seems to take 3600 grams to visibly ‘lift’ the inner cap. The diameter of the neck of the radiator, that seals on the rubber surface, is 21 mm. That works out at 1 Bar. The cap is rated for 0,9. If anything these measurements are on the high side so that appears to check out. I’m aware this doesn’t say anything about the return function.
The compression tests were preformed with a 90%+ filled coolant system at atmospheric pressure. The 3 opened ports were covered with a paper towel while testing. No fluids of any sort were ejected from any of the cylinders that I could discover.
After filling and bleeding the coolant, the hoses felt as if pretty much no air was left in there. After driving for about 30 minutes the coolant has risen in the overflow tank from maximum to overflowing. Hoses still felt hard, and hot, so haven’t opened the radiator. Its really irritating how the filler cap is right above the lower radiator hose connection. If there is one point I didn’t trusted it was/is that one, and since i just reinstalled it I would want to see it dry and coolant free in a day orso.
Is there a test for radiator cap return action? Online they’re very cheap, if thats the same locally I’m considering to pick up one just to rule it out. This is the original cap on a aftermarket radiator. Been replaced about 1,5 year / 60 000km ago due to 1/3rd of the aluminium fins having gone missing and I didn’t want to wait for a tube to fail.
I think I’ve made a mistake by starting a thread just about this compression test. Should have taken my time to describe the full situation in the first post. Sorry for that.
The first sign of a problem was when my engine was running hotter then normal (3/4 of the way up the meter instead of 1/2) and it took longer then normal for heat to come out of the vents. I checked and found 2 liters of coolant missing from the radiator. Checked for leaks quickly (it was dark, wasn’t home). I had coolant with me so I filled it up the radiator and overflow tank to a normal level, drove on and kept my eye on it.
Coolant was still going missing slowly, and air returned in to the system after driving. I did use the bleeder when filling up. The radiator hoses felt hard when trying to squeeze them, after driving not so much. I checked for leaks at all hose connections, to the radiator, thermostat, towards heater core etc. The radiator connections looked dirty so I drained the system and cleaned up the connections points, replaced the spring type hose clamp on the lower radiator hose for an adjustable type as it was rusted and seemed weak.
Filled up, bleed the system and kept my eye on it during the week. Still coolant is going missing. Due to lack of time i’ve been topping off the radiator (but not the overflow) for a few weeks. The loss appears to be quite constante. 0,5 liter per 100 km orso.
However the level in the overflow tank seems to vary, between normal and overflowing. While the radiator hoses feel rather soft, in fact you can hear air bubbles move around the thermostat.
My reasoning in doing the compression test was that only pressurized air/gas getting in to the coolant system could force so much coolant past my radiator cap.
The overflow tank can hold about a 0,5 liter of fluid above the maximum line before it drains the coolant via a tube on to the road. When I fill it after draining I fill it to somewhere just under maximum.
[quote=”barneyb” post=128825]With a compression test you are looking for but hoping not to find low compression. Maybe the gauge is off and three cylinders are low. Otherwise, it could be cylinder one came that way from the factory. That or deposits.
I’d suggest a cooling system pressure test. I found a pinhole leak in one of my cars the other day in a hose coming off the water pump. It took about 15 minutes for the first drop to appear. But that was the leak causing my coolant level to go down.[/quote]
Could deposits really raise it by that much? It is the same cylinder that fouls up the spark plugs quickest (by no means fast, but then again its had 18 years to build up).
Coolant system pressure test is next one my list, but i’m going to leave that to a garage in stead of buying the tool. And leak down is also something to consider. I was going to worry about that after tomorrow, when i will do the compression test again.
Is compression low on 3 cylinders without noticeable issues likely?
Seems I did wipe the plug and stuck it down in some rags. If anything they were a little greasy. I think I’m just gonna have to wait for a while and see when it begins to act up again.
Next time it happens.. if I get the plug out when it is acting up, any way other then setting it on fire to determine if its petrol or oil? 👿
Seems I did wipe the plug and stuck it down in some rags. If anything they were a little greasy. I think I’m just gonna have to wait for a while and see when it begins to act up again.
Next time it happens.. if I get the plug out when it is acting up, any way other then setting it on fire to determine if its petrol or oil? 👿
Thanks for the reply 🙂
I don’t have a compression tester, but I’m considering to get one as I’m sure it proof to be useful in the future. Also for the motorcycle and possibly vehicles i’d consider to buy.
I understand this doesn’t tests the stem seals at all, but it seems like a good idea to rule out a broken piston ring, as that too could introduce oil in to the cylinder. And just see how it holds up to the specifications before taking anything apart. And i’d actually need a hose with a fitting for the sparkplug hole, to even be able to remove my valve spring in the car at all.
I understand I might be wrong in my assessment of the liquid on the spark plug being oil. I have not cleaned up the plug since I took that picture, just stuck it behind some elastic band on a bag in the booth and installed a new plug. If that was fuel or coolant, I expect it to be vaporised by now, and the plugs to be dry.. if its still wet and greasy now 24h later (the oil is maybe 1000 miles old, it still has a nice golden/light brown color) I think it would be safe to assume it indeed is oil. I’ll go have a look in a bit.
Also I have to say external oil leaks appear to be under control, the valve cover gasket is replaced about 3-4 months ago. They are notorious for leaking apparently, and I must admit it has taken several times of additional tightening the bolts a bit, but there is no oil leaking in to the spark plug wells or near ignition parts since i’ve opened this thread.
Injector cleaning is something to be considered perhaps, specially if it indeed is fuel on the plug. I’ll go look at the plug in a bit, that should help to diagnose if its an oil leak or a fuel leak i’d say.
Thanks for the reply 🙂
I don’t have a compression tester, but I’m considering to get one as I’m sure it proof to be useful in the future. Also for the motorcycle and possibly vehicles i’d consider to buy.
I understand this doesn’t tests the stem seals at all, but it seems like a good idea to rule out a broken piston ring, as that too could introduce oil in to the cylinder. And just see how it holds up to the specifications before taking anything apart. And i’d actually need a hose with a fitting for the sparkplug hole, to even be able to remove my valve spring in the car at all.
I understand I might be wrong in my assessment of the liquid on the spark plug being oil. I have not cleaned up the plug since I took that picture, just stuck it behind some elastic band on a bag in the booth and installed a new plug. If that was fuel or coolant, I expect it to be vaporised by now, and the plugs to be dry.. if its still wet and greasy now 24h later (the oil is maybe 1000 miles old, it still has a nice golden/light brown color) I think it would be safe to assume it indeed is oil. I’ll go have a look in a bit.
Also I have to say external oil leaks appear to be under control, the valve cover gasket is replaced about 3-4 months ago. They are notorious for leaking apparently, and I must admit it has taken several times of additional tightening the bolts a bit, but there is no oil leaking in to the spark plug wells or near ignition parts since i’ve opened this thread.
Injector cleaning is something to be considered perhaps, specially if it indeed is fuel on the plug. I’ll go look at the plug in a bit, that should help to diagnose if its an oil leak or a fuel leak i’d say.
No relation to the weather. It did seem like that a few months ago, hence i’ve been suspicious of my sparkplug leads and distributor too, but as time went on it just appears to be random. Its happened on damp misty mornings, but also on boiling hot sunny afternoons and mostly anything in between.
I’m trying to work out what my options are, if this continues to become more frequent/irritating. Did just watched some of the videos about removing valves in the vehicle, and that would be a lot less work then I assumed it would be to even get to these seals.
But before I start doing that I would like to verify the source of the leaking oil. The valve stem seems to be the most likely source, but really it is nothing more then an assumption.
Should I get a compression tester/have it tested?
Assuming compression is good, should I consider products like leakstop or engine oils with ‘revitalising’ additives, or is that not effective on valve stem seals?
No relation to the weather. It did seem like that a few months ago, hence i’ve been suspicious of my sparkplug leads and distributor too, but as time went on it just appears to be random. Its happened on damp misty mornings, but also on boiling hot sunny afternoons and mostly anything in between.
I’m trying to work out what my options are, if this continues to become more frequent/irritating. Did just watched some of the videos about removing valves in the vehicle, and that would be a lot less work then I assumed it would be to even get to these seals.
But before I start doing that I would like to verify the source of the leaking oil. The valve stem seems to be the most likely source, but really it is nothing more then an assumption.
Should I get a compression tester/have it tested?
Assuming compression is good, should I consider products like leakstop or engine oils with ‘revitalising’ additives, or is that not effective on valve stem seals?
Yeah I realized that, added a description below the pic later. But it is quite definitely (liquid) oil on there.
Plug wasn’t exactly new, did just stuck a new plug in that cylinder, just to see how long it takes before that fouls up.
What I don’t understand how ever, is how the problem (used to be) not frequent, while the oil can’t slowly build up there (even when there is enough on there to act up, it gets cleared/burned off within a minute). Or could it just be random, and only leak if its parked with a particular valve opened?
Coolant level is exactly the same as I left it after replacing the radiation 1,5 years ago, thats not going anywhere.