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Alright, I’m beginning to wonder. I was out today working on my cars and decided to revisit my van ( I only drive it every other week ) and decided to clean the MAF with the appropriate cleaner. Then I decided I was going to start the van with no air cleaner housing connected. My STFT’s were in the negative single digits, around 3 on my scan tool. While the engine was running, I hooked the air cleaner back up and the readings flip flopped to positive 3’s. I get a feeling that this old air cleaner needs to be replaced. I’ve been still searching for a way to put a conventional air cleaner on this van, but without actually modifying the hood to accomodate the space needed to do it properly, I’m stuck with what I have until I can come up with something else. For now, I’m going to replace the air filter ( cone style ) wtih the exact same type and see where that gets me.
Well, I worked on the Exploder today since the temps were 43F in MINNESOTA on December 18th! I’m taking that opportunity and making good use of it whenver I can!
Fortunately, it ended up being the easier of the two sensors that needed replacing ( bank 2 ), but I still plan to replace that other sensor since the code was for a sluggish sensor which makes me believe that the other one will start going sooner than later. Dropping the back of the tranny and the transfer case seems like just as much work as pulling the console and seat out or picking up some really long pliers and surgically getting that plug off.
Funny, the O2 sensor I was focused on originally loosened up for me no problem, the one that actually needed replacing ended up being the PITA automotive work is known to create. Took coaxing from penetrating fluid and the good old propane torch to get it to give up it’s grip on the threads. New Bosch O2 sensor installed and wiring properly zip tied away from the front drive shaft and the scan tool I have is showing me really good readings from both sensors, so for now I’m happy with the repair. However, this thread is far from over, the fight still continues, but I get to do it on my terms, which means I will do my best to document how I go about it for future O2 replacements searched for on the ETCG boards!
Forums that I frequent give you a quick mouse-over overview of the first couple of lines in the first post, which makes it easier to get an idea more often than not whether the topic is worth opening or not.
Honestly, that’s the biggest reason I don’t open more threads, I don’t have time to waste on nonsense, which is why I try to put titles that are either topical, or interesting enough to draw you into the thread….plus I usually try to make my posts worthy of spending a little time reading…I mean, if I can’t amuse said random helpful stranger, how am I going to amuse said non helpful random stranger? And the more you say the word stranger in your head, the stranger the word becomes and you wonder how such a strange word could have come into being and possibly be used so many times in one strange sentence read by a bunch of strangers…V-)
All these sensors are what make our cars reliable. They weren’t handing out 100k Warranties on cars in 1960 were they? You were lucky if your car saw 120k on the odometer. Most of the sensors keep the fuel going into the cylinders at the optimal amounts and as close to a “lean” condition as the other sensors will allow. The knock sensor for example will tell the computer that it is running the engine too lean because the engine will start to “ping” if the engine is running too lean, or if the ignition advance is set to aggressively. It also allows you to get 44mpg out of a Chevy Cruze instead of 25mpg out of a Chevy Chevette. Those old cars with Carburetors and simple electronic ignition systems just can’t make those minute adjustments hundreds of times a second. It’s like playing video games on an Atari 2600 vs one of todays top end systems. Sure, you could take the cartridge out and blow on it, maybe clean the contacts and drive your little pixelated version of a tank around shooting your giant square block at the other guy and maybe you have to completely disassemble your Xbox to fix the RED RING OF DEATH. But when you get into THAT tank, it’s an M1A2 Abrahms and it’s taking down the Taliban @60mph across the desert just as if you were actually there. So, what’s the price you’d rather pay?
Oh, and VSS Vehicle Speed Sensor…used to measure the rotation of the output shaft on the transmission. A tech can plug in the parameters of the particular tire you put on your vehicle so that your speedometer reads correctly..had to replace the gear in the transmission back in the day or learn how much of a difference there is the in speed you are going vs the speed you are seeing on the gauge.
Another nice function of the VSS is that the computer uses it to control your cruise control, on some cars it is used in conjuction with your ABS system and it is also used in that nice little display that tells you how many miles until you are out of fuel and what your fuel economy is.
O2 sensors have an upstream and downstream sensor. The upstream sensor reads the amount of unburned fuel after the engine combusts it in the combustion cycle and expels it in the exhaust cycle. The Downstream sensor tells the computer how efficient the Catalytic converter is burning off the excess fuel. The important sensor is the upstream sensor ( Bank 1 Sensor 1 or Bank 2 Sensor 1 ). That tells the computer how efficient the motor is at converting fuel into power. The Downstream sensors primary job is to help regulate Fuel trim, but it’s mostly there to make sure that you aren’t expelling to many emissions related gasses to the atmosphere.
Terms to know in regards to O2 sensors on Scanners. When you are looking at “live data” meaning the information the computer sees from the O2 sensors while the engine is running. You want to see your sensors as close to “0” as possible. Single digit readings are okay, but if you are constantly in double digits, then you need to investigate why.
LTFT and STFT are terms seen on scanners with live data. This means “Long Term Fuel Trim” or “Short Term Fuel Trim”. I’m just beginning to learn all the ins and outs of these numbers, but again…”0″ is ideal
Quoted From EricTheCarGuy:
Interesting note about the heat not working at idle, I’m wondering if you have enough flow through the cooling system, if not then it’s possible that the coolant temp readings are off thus causing the fuel mix to be off. What kind of shape do you think your water pump is in?
Keep us posted I’m interested to see how this pans out. Good luck and stay warm.
I rerouted some of the vacuum connections to take proper advantage of the vacuum ball, and reconnected a fitting that was disconnected. Not sure if that happened while driving or when I was rerouting the vacuum ball connection. I’ll have to check to see if that corrected the problem. It seemed that it was relative to engine vacuum, not engine speed. The heat works great in the van, it was just that it would go away temporarily. I’ve watched the temp gauge on the scanner and it never hits over the 195F that the T stat is designed for.
An interesting side note though…I had replaced the temp gauge sender because I broke off the wire by accident, and when I replaced it with a STANDARD brand sender, it shows my temps at 210 running, but when the thermostat is closed, the temp will read almost up to the 260F mark…as soon as it hits it, you can see the gauge drop off down to 210 again…I didn’t have that kind of movement with the 180F stat that was in there before. I do think the higher temps may be because I think I may have put thread tape on the new sending unit, which would increase the resistance and cause a higher reading if my thinking is correct…
Well, I replaced the intake duct and have no change in the code. My Mileage stays at a steady 14.5ish mpg, down from 15.5ish mpg. I’ve seen as high as 16mpg since the code showed up, but I’ve seen that before the code showed up when I look back at my fuel logs. Sadly, it’s gotten damn cold around here and I’m more reluctant to just go outside and pop that doghouse off again and start looking for the problem to verify what needs to be remedied. My thought was to disconnect and plug any unnecessary sources of vacuum ( vac line to the heater controls, the hose off the duct from the passenger side valve cover ( non pcv side ) to see if I can reduce the number of sources for potential leaks.
One thing is certain, my heating system suffers at an idle vs off idle, which leads me to believe that I’ve got something going on. The Previous owner had not reconnected the vacuum ball which is what I thought was the culprit, but since I still have the problem after connecting it back up, I need to double check that I have that system connected properly. Wish I had a garage to work in, I may have just yanked the intake off already and replaced the gaskets just for good measure by now. I’m don’t like throwing parts at this without being able to verify the problem, but I’m running out of ways to do it…and this darn dual exhaust is too noisy to hear anything that isn’t obvious….I need to muffle the exhaust more.
Makes you wonder if the problem happened when the owner used an app on their smart phone that triggered it….
I like the idea of a “first timers” car video…something all of us Dads out there can sit our kids in front of and have them watch it….it’s easier to have someone else show them how to do something right than trying to teach them without frustration. After watching the video, we can then take them out to our vehicles and have them identify important areas to keep an eye on, like knowing where to check the oil, and where to fill the oil for the right component ( don’t want them putting engine oil in the transmission! ) And knowing where to find the jack and wrench to change a tire…manufacturers love to hide those things in weird places on our cars!
Who knows, you might be able to sell the video to drivers instructors for in the classroom training if you “nail it”!
As far as the forums go, one thing I like in other forums is a “preview” mouse over on the thread titles. Usually the first sentance or so of a thread will tell you if it’s something you want to invest time opening. I try to make my opening thread title unique and interesting to get people interested in opening it anyways, but we always see the thread titles written as “HELP! My Car broke!” Mouse over previews help those threads be a little less annoying.
I like the stop light icons though, that was an awesome idea.
As far as the FATR suggestions go, the only real thing I think the shop needs is something on that back wall, like a big old ETCG, or “STAY DIRTY” banner or maybe if you were to start getting sponsors, you could put up a big banner up there for the weeks videos ( of course, that all depends on where you plan to take this whole thing to…is there a larger goal for ETCG, or is he playing it by ear? )
Keep up the good work otherwise…entertained as always…it’s not hard to tell that you aren’t in this for yourself. Anyone that says otherwise is fooling themselves, or haven’t paid enough attention.
There are quite a few software for laptop and smart phone/PDA programs out there. I have hands on experience with the Torque app for Android based phones and have to say that it’s a nifty piece of software. I can say for certain though, don’t cheap out on the bluetooth OBD2 adapter. For a good set up, it’ll cost you minimum $100 for the adapter and the price for the software…with the software being the cheaper end. You can check the software out for free too…it’s really nice for basic diagnosis as it can give you a lot of information in real time while you are driving!
EFI Live is a really nice piece of software, but it requires a little higher level of automotive knowledge and a bit more money to make it worth your while. You can literally custom tune your cars computer with the program and interface cable, but it comes with a pretty steep price to do that. They do have just the diagnostic software available, but it’s still not “cheap”….cheaper than buying a snap on scanner though! Plus, there is a really good support community behind both that I have discussed.
There are a lot of decent programs out there though, it just depends on what you are comfortable the most with.
Agreed. Since you mention it happened on a bumpy road, there’s a chance that either there is an intermittent problem due to a broken wire or similar. The code should give you a clue as to what part of the ABS to check. Likely it’s one of the sensors at the wheel since they take the most abuse out of anything else in the system in regards to what the road throws at it.
Well, I did my best to do a propane check and didn’t get very far with that as far as finding any kind of leak, so I switch to carb cleaner. The only place that I got the O2 readings to change were around the ducting on top of the throttle body. I’m not completely convinced though. I made a gasket for the base, and then put a rubber band on it ( a thin one, about 1/8th inch wide ) and then put the duct back on. It was pretty tight, but I still get the codes. However, that may be causing more problems for all I know.
I’m going to see if I can source another intake duct and see if there is any change. Beyond that, I’d love to do a smoke test on the van. Had thought about buying a cheap cigar and try to draw as much of it into the intake as I can. I may try that on Sunday if the weather holds out for me.
As it sits though, I’m getting pretty much the same single digit numbers when I run the engine at 2500rpm with a slight spike when peak vacuum is attained. The freeze frame data seems to be taken at various RPMs, from idle to the current freeze frame @ 2250 rpm, engine no fully warmed up ( about 150F ) under about 1/3 throttle.
It might help if I understood the relationship of the MAF and MAP sensor data. Might be a good basic video for you to shoot Eric! There are plenty of cheap scanners out there in the hands of guys like me that give us data, but we don’t truely understand what it means. Live data and freeze frame data can tell so much, but it’s like a white guy trying to read the tea leaves…if you haven’t been taught, you can only guess and assume so much.
We certainly need more information than this in order to help you out. Beyond that, it’s all guesswork. Could be a tire that lost a weight and is tossing the suspension around or it’s something in the driveline most likely because the engine will hit similar RPM ranges as it goes through the gears so one could speculate that it would have to do with something that increases in speed up to 30+ mph. Does it matter how hard you accelerate or is the noise their regardless of whether you are accelerating or cruising?
sounds like the factory amp got shorted when you did the “oopsie”, killed the amp but caused it to draw power…probably by fusing the contacts on the internal switch circuitry.
Never been a big fan of stock amplifiers in cars….seems to just be one of those things car manufacturers have a hard time getting “right” when it comes to anyone owning one and being any level of an audiophile.
it’s a good idea as long as it doesn’t get abused. I get a feeling that the type of people that frequent this place aren’t a bunch of trolls or up to no good, and most people will look at post counts as well as the reputation meter.
It’s valuable also in that you may have a huge post count, but if you’ve been slinging bad advice or otherwise being negative it can also help sway opinions on how to take that particular persons posts in the various threads they are active in.