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2/17/14 Update:
Tested o2s and not only did the rear sensor’s heater have no continuity, but it was physically damaged as well. Needless to say I started by replacing that with an OEM denso sensor, still seems to run the same and appears to be getting crappy mileage still. I continued testing sensors as per haynes and FSM.
-A/C idle-up checks out.
-The condition of a few of the injector and coil harnesses is hurting, but nothing new in the 50k i’ve had the car without any misfires or stalls because of a loose harness.
-Cam position sensor was soaked in oil, I disconnected the harness and oil was sitting puddled inside the cup of the sensor’s connector. I took it out wiped it off and checked the gasket which appeared to be ok, don’t know how the oil got there but now the harness is crumbling apart.
The sensor resistance checks out, but when running, I can disconnect the sensor and it doesn’t affect the idle one bit. Is this something to look further into?Here’s something else I’ve noticed though:
First off, my a/c has never fully functioned, I get no voltage to the signal wire to trip the a/c relay so to turn on my a/c, I install the relay (which i taped closed-circuit) and press the a/c button inside the car to get the engine to idle up (which still works from the switch, just not the relay). Recently when I turned my a/c on for the first time since the car’s been acting up, the rpms were much more drastically affected by the a/c system than usual. When I activated compressor (installed taped relay) the rpms dropped down to like 600, then I hit the switch to turn a/c idle up on and it jumped up to like 1300-1400rpm (higher than the already high idle when fully warmed up)
-Idk if I’ve mentioned this previously, but once the car warms up if I kill it and immediately restart it it starts at around 1300 then slowly drops to almost dead-on rpm-wise (about 800), but after about 10secs something changes and the idle goes up to around 1100-1200. The engine sounds like it does when you turn the a/c on (increased load and idle compensation) but if I hit the a/c switch, it will jump up even higher.
This is begining to keep me up at night.:dry:
I really appreciate all of the help I get here. Thanks for any/everythingQuestions:
What could be causing this much MPG loss without throwing a code?
Am I missing something to test?
The coolant seems a little low, could this cause the erratic idle and or bad mileage?
Is there a way to find out if the car is successfully entering and staying in closed loop once warmed up?2/17/14 Update:
Tested o2s and not only did the rear sensor’s heater have no continuity, but it was physically damaged as well. Needless to say I started by replacing that with an OEM denso sensor, still seems to run the same and appears to be getting crappy mileage still. I continued testing sensors as per haynes and FSM.
-A/C idle-up checks out.
-The condition of a few of the injector and coil harnesses is hurting, but nothing new in the 50k i’ve had the car without any misfires or stalls because of a loose harness.
-Cam position sensor was soaked in oil, I disconnected the harness and oil was sitting puddled inside the cup of the sensor’s connector. I took it out wiped it off and checked the gasket which appeared to be ok, don’t know how the oil got there but now the harness is crumbling apart.
The sensor resistance checks out, but when running, I can disconnect the sensor and it doesn’t affect the idle one bit. Is this something to look further into?Here’s something else I’ve noticed though:
First off, my a/c has never fully functioned, I get no voltage to the signal wire to trip the a/c relay so to turn on my a/c, I install the relay (which i taped closed-circuit) and press the a/c button inside the car to get the engine to idle up (which still works from the switch, just not the relay). Recently when I turned my a/c on for the first time since the car’s been acting up, the rpms were much more drastically affected by the a/c system than usual. When I activated compressor (installed taped relay) the rpms dropped down to like 600, then I hit the switch to turn a/c idle up on and it jumped up to like 1300-1400rpm (higher than the already high idle when fully warmed up)
-Idk if I’ve mentioned this previously, but once the car warms up if I kill it and immediately restart it it starts at around 1300 then slowly drops to almost dead-on rpm-wise (about 800), but after about 10secs something changes and the idle goes up to around 1100-1200. The engine sounds like it does when you turn the a/c on (increased load and idle compensation) but if I hit the a/c switch, it will jump up even higher.
This is begining to keep me up at night.:dry:
I really appreciate all of the help I get here. Thanks for any/everythingQuestions:
What could be causing this much MPG loss without throwing a code?
Am I missing something to test?
The coolant seems a little low, could this cause the erratic idle and or bad mileage?
Is there a way to find out if the car is successfully entering and staying in closed loop once warmed up?With a 2000 model year, it should be throwing some kind of code for that symptom. If you can gain access to a scan-tool or take it to an autozone or another parts store which will scan the computer for free, i’d start there and post the results. When it runs for 2 secs, does it run well/smoothly or is it stumbling around until it stalls? Does it start right up or do you have to crank it abnormally long?
With a 2000 model year, it should be throwing some kind of code for that symptom. If you can gain access to a scan-tool or take it to an autozone or another parts store which will scan the computer for free, i’d start there and post the results. When it runs for 2 secs, does it run well/smoothly or is it stumbling around until it stalls? Does it start right up or do you have to crank it abnormally long?
How many miles on the car? most FWD vehicles have factory-recommended replacement of CV-Axles/drive-axles/halfshafts every 60k miles. My 94 camry is recommended every 30 (but seeing as how I drive a 94, i obviously don’t have the money to do it that often, I get by on 60k replacements lol)
-The joints in these could be worn out in such a way that they only click when starting from a certain position rotationally-speaking. If you can, get under the car safely (either a lift or jack it up and put it on stands as crawling under a civic would allow less-than-ample workroom 😛 ) and see if they have any play in them either radially or laterally. If so i’d suspect these or a related component like hub bearings which causes something to be able to shift when power/torque is applied.
-If those check out ok, check for lateral play in your front wheels, should be none ideally. Grab the tire at 9 and 3 and push/pull opposite directions (like you are turning the steering wheel, axis-wise) See if that allows you to recreate the sound. (IMO less likely a cause of the sound but quite possibly a reason for instability over bumps) If that makes the same noise, it’s likely your steering end-links (another commonly worn out part)
-My final thought on the matter, which could link both of the symptoms you describe, is worn shocks/struts or mounts/bearings (however yours are setup, i’m not familiar with hondas). Raise the vehicle and secure it with jack-stands, remove the wheels for easier access, and see if you get any play in the shocks/struts in any direction (although i’m thinking if this is the cause, you should be able to recreate the sound by getting play laterally in the shock in the fore/aft direction with the car.
Hopefully at least some of this was helpful. Good luck and be safe.
How many miles on the car? most FWD vehicles have factory-recommended replacement of CV-Axles/drive-axles/halfshafts every 60k miles. My 94 camry is recommended every 30 (but seeing as how I drive a 94, i obviously don’t have the money to do it that often, I get by on 60k replacements lol)
-The joints in these could be worn out in such a way that they only click when starting from a certain position rotationally-speaking. If you can, get under the car safely (either a lift or jack it up and put it on stands as crawling under a civic would allow less-than-ample workroom 😛 ) and see if they have any play in them either radially or laterally. If so i’d suspect these or a related component like hub bearings which causes something to be able to shift when power/torque is applied.
-If those check out ok, check for lateral play in your front wheels, should be none ideally. Grab the tire at 9 and 3 and push/pull opposite directions (like you are turning the steering wheel, axis-wise) See if that allows you to recreate the sound. (IMO less likely a cause of the sound but quite possibly a reason for instability over bumps) If that makes the same noise, it’s likely your steering end-links (another commonly worn out part)
-My final thought on the matter, which could link both of the symptoms you describe, is worn shocks/struts or mounts/bearings (however yours are setup, i’m not familiar with hondas). Raise the vehicle and secure it with jack-stands, remove the wheels for easier access, and see if you get any play in the shocks/struts in any direction (although i’m thinking if this is the cause, you should be able to recreate the sound by getting play laterally in the shock in the fore/aft direction with the car.
Hopefully at least some of this was helpful. Good luck and be safe.
Sorry about the (extreme) delay in response. I’ve been busy with school which makes DIY diagnosis difficult Since I have to drive it almost daily. I haven’t had any significant lock-up/unlock cycling since my last post a few thousand miles ago, but it did act like it was going to start doing it again once then quit.
Most recent, still idling rough (usually seems to be a cyclical rough idle, RPMs stay (as per the dash-tach) constant, but I feel a vibration every few seconds like clockwork. The only code is one which has remained ever since I go the car over 50k miles ago; p0135 o2s heater circuit malfunction. I’ve never had any reason to be worried about it since it didn’t manifest any noticeable symptoms. Recently though(last 2 tanks), i’ve been getting CRAPPY gas mileage. Usually avg 25, last tanks were 21, then 18 which is concerning to say the least. I haven’t seen or smelled any leaks so I assume it must be running really rich. It started when the cold weather/ “polar vortex” hit.
I know that cold weather and winter-blend gas will hurt gas mileage…but 7mpg/28%? It’s warmed up on the last tank and i’m fairly certain the mileage is still bad judging by typical tripmeter/fuel-level milestones.
Recent tests/maintenance
-ECT=in spec
-MAF=in spec
-TPS=in spec (from what I could tell, it’s difficult to do with only a DVOM and 2 hands lol)
-IAC=in spec electronically
-Cleaned throttle body and shot some around IAC
-New air filter (~100miles)
-New fuel filter (~4000miles)
-Found that spark plugs (45k miles) have a slight grey deposit on them, nothing too heavy. Electrode still good
There’s no easy way for me to do a fuel pressure test at my apt(no garage at school 🙁 ) and the car has no test port, or I would do that too. Is it something I should consider having done to eliminate as a potential cause? (Keeping in mind i’m a poor college kid)
The o2s throwing the code is the pita one on the firewall. testing it would require me to get under the car somehow, but i’ll try that soon too and post results. Thanks everyone for all of the help. It is so very much appreciated!Sorry about the (extreme) delay in response. I’ve been busy with school which makes DIY diagnosis difficult Since I have to drive it almost daily. I haven’t had any significant lock-up/unlock cycling since my last post a few thousand miles ago, but it did act like it was going to start doing it again once then quit.
Most recent, still idling rough (usually seems to be a cyclical rough idle, RPMs stay (as per the dash-tach) constant, but I feel a vibration every few seconds like clockwork. The only code is one which has remained ever since I go the car over 50k miles ago; p0135 o2s heater circuit malfunction. I’ve never had any reason to be worried about it since it didn’t manifest any noticeable symptoms. Recently though(last 2 tanks), i’ve been getting CRAPPY gas mileage. Usually avg 25, last tanks were 21, then 18 which is concerning to say the least. I haven’t seen or smelled any leaks so I assume it must be running really rich. It started when the cold weather/ “polar vortex” hit.
I know that cold weather and winter-blend gas will hurt gas mileage…but 7mpg/28%? It’s warmed up on the last tank and i’m fairly certain the mileage is still bad judging by typical tripmeter/fuel-level milestones.
Recent tests/maintenance
-ECT=in spec
-MAF=in spec
-TPS=in spec (from what I could tell, it’s difficult to do with only a DVOM and 2 hands lol)
-IAC=in spec electronically
-Cleaned throttle body and shot some around IAC
-New air filter (~100miles)
-New fuel filter (~4000miles)
-Found that spark plugs (45k miles) have a slight grey deposit on them, nothing too heavy. Electrode still good
There’s no easy way for me to do a fuel pressure test at my apt(no garage at school 🙁 ) and the car has no test port, or I would do that too. Is it something I should consider having done to eliminate as a potential cause? (Keeping in mind i’m a poor college kid)
The o2s throwing the code is the pita one on the firewall. testing it would require me to get under the car somehow, but i’ll try that soon too and post results. Thanks everyone for all of the help. It is so very much appreciated![quote=”college man” post=83483]Could you post the codes that were given? It could
be a performance issue.[/quote]
Will do, and on that note, here’s comparison of various issues before and after trans rebuild:
Before:idle high (1200 avg warm) and usually surging up/down about 100-150rpm every ~5secs,
After: idle varies between normal(7-800) and 1100-1200 warm, but is consistent, no surging. Each time i drive it, the idle seems to change.(initially what made me think of a possible correlation between the issues) However, when idling at normal RPMs, it seems rough. I’ll run fuel system cleaner when I get home too (which I normally do at least once a month) plugs have 40k on them and rated to change at 60k
Thanks[quote=”college man” post=83483]Could you post the codes that were given? It could
be a performance issue.[/quote]
Will do, and on that note, here’s comparison of various issues before and after trans rebuild:
Before:idle high (1200 avg warm) and usually surging up/down about 100-150rpm every ~5secs,
After: idle varies between normal(7-800) and 1100-1200 warm, but is consistent, no surging. Each time i drive it, the idle seems to change.(initially what made me think of a possible correlation between the issues) However, when idling at normal RPMs, it seems rough. I’ll run fuel system cleaner when I get home too (which I normally do at least once a month) plugs have 40k on them and rated to change at 60k
Thanks[quote=”wysetech” post=83472]I would return to the trans shop and ask, not complain.[/quote]
of course, “complain” does carry quite a negative connotation. Good point. And i’ll do that and post the results. My only concern is that it won’t misbehave when i drop it off (as per usual lol)[quote=”wysetech” post=83472]I would return to the trans shop and ask, not complain.[/quote]
of course, “complain” does carry quite a negative connotation. Good point. And i’ll do that and post the results. My only concern is that it won’t misbehave when i drop it off (as per usual lol)To save any long reading, problem resolved!
Thank you guys very much for the help!
Cause: Loose steering rack mounting bolts
Hint: Use torque wrenches…come on. Especially if you run a shop and a customer comes in complaining about something feeling loose after work you did. Thankfully no one got hurt, but that sort of issue could have resulted in an accident if I was less aware of it.To save any long reading, problem resolved!
Thank you guys very much for the help!
Cause: Loose steering rack mounting bolts
Hint: Use torque wrenches…come on. Especially if you run a shop and a customer comes in complaining about something feeling loose after work you did. Thankfully no one got hurt, but that sort of issue could have resulted in an accident if I was less aware of it.Update, got it back from the shop i trust and steering issue is gone. To answer the previous response, yes it had gotten to the point where simply jerking the wheel back and forth would shift the axis. All the shop did was install new sway bar bushings and tighten the steering rack to spec. I imagine the steering rack bolts were the cause. Good there, now, when i drove it down the highway today the converter was locking and unlocking repeatedly under consistent throttle and load. Before the rebuild, it never locked up at all and always had a solenoid trouble code. The flashing ‘o/d off’ light is gone now (haven’t had a chance to scan it yet) but the converter lock up has me worried. I honestly don’t feel confident bringing it back to the shop that did the tranny work, but if it’s something they didn’t do right, I guess i kinda have to. Work was backed by a nationwide “certified auto repair” warranty. Also I drove the car for about 150miles since the rebuild before today and lockup worked like a charm. One thing fixed and another comes back. Any ideas? Thanks