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[quote=”Raistian77″ post=83679]On the older FI cars/trucks the O2 sensor was a single wire unit with no heater. Extended idling could cool the manifold down enough the O2 would quit working and make the vehicle enter “open loop”. Open loop causes the engine to use more fuel than closed loop does so the EPA pushed hard for people not to idle their vehicles. Now the O2 sensors have their own heaters and usually do not drop out into open loop when idling anymore.[/quote]
Exactly! I should have qualified this topic by stating I was in no way referring to non EFI or “older” technology. But to re iterate if extended idling is SO BAD for an engine tell me why cabs etc will easily get 500,000 miles on them and still have a quite decent engine life left. And most cabs I’ve seen spend a LOT of time idling!!!! In Australia at least I’ve never seen one switched off. Also the tens (hundreds) of millions of vehicles stuck in traffic jams the world over must be expiring at an alarming rate due to extended idling now wouldn’t they? LOL
[quote=”Raistian77″ post=83679]On the older FI cars/trucks the O2 sensor was a single wire unit with no heater. Extended idling could cool the manifold down enough the O2 would quit working and make the vehicle enter “open loop”. Open loop causes the engine to use more fuel than closed loop does so the EPA pushed hard for people not to idle their vehicles. Now the O2 sensors have their own heaters and usually do not drop out into open loop when idling anymore.[/quote]
Exactly! I should have qualified this topic by stating I was in no way referring to non EFI or “older” technology. But to re iterate if extended idling is SO BAD for an engine tell me why cabs etc will easily get 500,000 miles on them and still have a quite decent engine life left. And most cabs I’ve seen spend a LOT of time idling!!!! In Australia at least I’ve never seen one switched off. Also the tens (hundreds) of millions of vehicles stuck in traffic jams the world over must be expiring at an alarming rate due to extended idling now wouldn’t they? LOL
[quote=”wysetech” post=83633]
That said, I can idle my 07 Dodge Caravan 3.3 for 15 min. at -18c and it’s only partially heated up but if I drive it it’s warmed to operating temp in 10 min. I have proven that to myself.[/quote]
Don’t know why that would be. Unless you are placing the engine under a fairly decent load whilst cold??? But FWIW, NA aircraft are all idled prior to take off. Standard procedure. After starting engines, idle them at 800 RPM’s until the oil pressure becomes normal, then increase to 1100 until taxi time. This will prevent “loading-up.” To prevent engine damage due to cold oil, DO NOT EXCEED 1100 RPM’s until the oil temperature is 55 degrees Celsius. Do not close cowl flaps to heat engines up in a hurry; this causes unequal cylinder temperature. Usually there will be ample time for engine warm-up before take-off. In any event, don’t take off until engines are warmed-up. To assure proper cooling, “ground run” engines in “auto-rich” and, if possible, head the aircraft into the wind.
[quote=”wysetech” post=83633]
That said, I can idle my 07 Dodge Caravan 3.3 for 15 min. at -18c and it’s only partially heated up but if I drive it it’s warmed to operating temp in 10 min. I have proven that to myself.[/quote]
Don’t know why that would be. Unless you are placing the engine under a fairly decent load whilst cold??? But FWIW, NA aircraft are all idled prior to take off. Standard procedure. After starting engines, idle them at 800 RPM’s until the oil pressure becomes normal, then increase to 1100 until taxi time. This will prevent “loading-up.” To prevent engine damage due to cold oil, DO NOT EXCEED 1100 RPM’s until the oil temperature is 55 degrees Celsius. Do not close cowl flaps to heat engines up in a hurry; this causes unequal cylinder temperature. Usually there will be ample time for engine warm-up before take-off. In any event, don’t take off until engines are warmed-up. To assure proper cooling, “ground run” engines in “auto-rich” and, if possible, head the aircraft into the wind.
[quote=”barneyb” post=83169]Stock Evo with stock boost. However, it is an ’03 Evo VIII and maybe the cause is the age of the hose – rubber getting hard. I first had this problem a year ago.[/quote]
Hoses must be replaced at regular intervals regardless of mileage etc. We only have EVO X’s and have no experience with the older models but am guessing that “could” be the problem. Unsure.
[quote=”barneyb” post=83169]Stock Evo with stock boost. However, it is an ’03 Evo VIII and maybe the cause is the age of the hose – rubber getting hard. I first had this problem a year ago.[/quote]
Hoses must be replaced at regular intervals regardless of mileage etc. We only have EVO X’s and have no experience with the older models but am guessing that “could” be the problem. Unsure.
[quote=”barneyb” post=83115]Info: this is a turbocharged car. Out driving the spouse around on her shopping errands yesterday, we rounded the corner by Kmart, hit the gas, and thanks to the nice dense air courtesy of cold snap #2, I hear a hiss and then a boom, clutch down, the tach goes to zero and we coast into the back lot at the Tractor Store, release hood, grab a clamp and nut driver, raise the hood and remove the tbolt clamp that was supposed to fix this problem. A minute later we were back on the road, the tbolt tossed in the back seat.
Last night I was thinking about what could I put on that hose to keep it from blowing off of the manifold? I have heard of using hairspray – extra hold I imagine. Well, after burning enough natural gas to heat the shop I was in no mood for hairspray so why not 3M yellow weather strip adhesive?
BTW, this was the third time his hose has blown since September hence me having the drill down pat. My wife doesn’t even ask, “What was that?”, anymore.[/quote]
Only ever had this with modified engines. If it’s a stock EVO with STOCK boost never happened to ours. EVER!
[quote=”barneyb” post=83115]Info: this is a turbocharged car. Out driving the spouse around on her shopping errands yesterday, we rounded the corner by Kmart, hit the gas, and thanks to the nice dense air courtesy of cold snap #2, I hear a hiss and then a boom, clutch down, the tach goes to zero and we coast into the back lot at the Tractor Store, release hood, grab a clamp and nut driver, raise the hood and remove the tbolt clamp that was supposed to fix this problem. A minute later we were back on the road, the tbolt tossed in the back seat.
Last night I was thinking about what could I put on that hose to keep it from blowing off of the manifold? I have heard of using hairspray – extra hold I imagine. Well, after burning enough natural gas to heat the shop I was in no mood for hairspray so why not 3M yellow weather strip adhesive?
BTW, this was the third time his hose has blown since September hence me having the drill down pat. My wife doesn’t even ask, “What was that?”, anymore.[/quote]
Only ever had this with modified engines. If it’s a stock EVO with STOCK boost never happened to ours. EVER!
[quote=”cjmillsnun” post=83097]
However that said, the main worry I would have for the scenario given by the OP is that my car might be stolen whilst I was inside waiting for the car to warm up.[/quote]
Well I live in the mountains of Australia on a large property. We don’t have any crime to speak of here you could say as there is no one around. But yes I do get your point if you live in an urban environment.
[quote=”cjmillsnun” post=83097]
However that said, the main worry I would have for the scenario given by the OP is that my car might be stolen whilst I was inside waiting for the car to warm up.[/quote]
Well I live in the mountains of Australia on a large property. We don’t have any crime to speak of here you could say as there is no one around. But yes I do get your point if you live in an urban environment.
[quote=”barneyb” post=83106]I think the advice of not allowing an extended warmup is promulgated by EPA due to emissions. Driving the vehicle apparently gets the catalytic convertor to operating temperature sooner than idling.
Now, if you live one block from the freeway this may not be good advice. Some modern engines can produce amazingly high oil pressure when cold and with the crummy construction of most oil filters you chance popping the filter.[/quote]
YES exactly! Of course the EPA are correct. I never said extended cold idling didn’t use more gas. Obviously it does as the vehicle isn’t going anywhere for several minutes. I’ve started my bikes and felt the cat box with my bare hands and trust me it gets HOT very VERY quick! Also. It isn’t so much the cold oil producing higher pressures. Rather it’s the fact that cold/thicker oil doesn’t provide that thin warmed up film engines crave. I’ve never seen an engine fail due to too thin an oil (excluding engine flush oils!) But. Too thick a viscosity? Oh yes! Why do you think we have multi viscosity oils nowadays? Try running an SAE W30. LOL
[quote=”barneyb” post=83106]I think the advice of not allowing an extended warmup is promulgated by EPA due to emissions. Driving the vehicle apparently gets the catalytic convertor to operating temperature sooner than idling.
Now, if you live one block from the freeway this may not be good advice. Some modern engines can produce amazingly high oil pressure when cold and with the crummy construction of most oil filters you chance popping the filter.[/quote]
YES exactly! Of course the EPA are correct. I never said extended cold idling didn’t use more gas. Obviously it does as the vehicle isn’t going anywhere for several minutes. I’ve started my bikes and felt the cat box with my bare hands and trust me it gets HOT very VERY quick! Also. It isn’t so much the cold oil producing higher pressures. Rather it’s the fact that cold/thicker oil doesn’t provide that thin warmed up film engines crave. I’ve never seen an engine fail due to too thin an oil (excluding engine flush oils!) But. Too thick a viscosity? Oh yes! Why do you think we have multi viscosity oils nowadays? Try running an SAE W30. LOL
[quote=”cjmillsnun” post=83097]Hmmm I have some disagreement with the OP. Extended idling can lead to a phenomena known as bore wash. Most owners handbooks tell you not to warm the car up from cold, but to start driving immediately. Engineers wrote those books and would’ve put that in for a reason.
However that said, the main worry I would have for the scenario given by the OP is that my car might be stolen whilst I was inside waiting for the car to warm up.[/quote]
As I mentioned. The ECU controls the enrichment process which is temp dependent & hence “time” dependent. There is a persistent myth whereby people erroneously believe the the ECU is running high enrichment the entire time an engine is idling cold OR HOT which is simply not true. I can’t imagine ANY engineer adhering to something which is simply illogical. And FYI my owners manuals for cars and bikes we own say “not extended idling when HOT”. A weird thing to say as one can only imagine how many tens or hundreds of millions of engines are idling for hours in traffic all over the world.
As an adjunct. My elderly father still has his car bought new in 1971 and it’s now covered 455,000 miles and he NEVER EVER didn’t idle that engine for a good ten minutes every time he drove it. And this is a NON ECU vehicle! It’s never even had the head off and compression is still good. Oil & filter change every 5,000 miles. That’s good enough for me. Borewash is almost always caused by fuel blowing by the rings as a result of A: Plain wear. Or B: Engine was babied during run in procedure from new.
[quote=”cjmillsnun” post=83097]Hmmm I have some disagreement with the OP. Extended idling can lead to a phenomena known as bore wash. Most owners handbooks tell you not to warm the car up from cold, but to start driving immediately. Engineers wrote those books and would’ve put that in for a reason.
However that said, the main worry I would have for the scenario given by the OP is that my car might be stolen whilst I was inside waiting for the car to warm up.[/quote]
As I mentioned. The ECU controls the enrichment process which is temp dependent & hence “time” dependent. There is a persistent myth whereby people erroneously believe the the ECU is running high enrichment the entire time an engine is idling cold OR HOT which is simply not true. I can’t imagine ANY engineer adhering to something which is simply illogical. And FYI my owners manuals for cars and bikes we own say “not extended idling when HOT”. A weird thing to say as one can only imagine how many tens or hundreds of millions of engines are idling for hours in traffic all over the world.
As an adjunct. My elderly father still has his car bought new in 1971 and it’s now covered 455,000 miles and he NEVER EVER didn’t idle that engine for a good ten minutes every time he drove it. And this is a NON ECU vehicle! It’s never even had the head off and compression is still good. Oil & filter change every 5,000 miles. That’s good enough for me. Borewash is almost always caused by fuel blowing by the rings as a result of A: Plain wear. Or B: Engine was babied during run in procedure from new.
[quote=”eliud712″ post=63198]I would like to start off the forum by asking what people ride. Pics and funny stories would be nice to hear. I would like to start off and say that I ride a 1982 Yamaha xj650. I got it during a police impound auction for about 500$. I have only learned how to ride and have still yet to get my license. I want to fix it up before I get my license. Am glade Eric made this. Hope people relise that this forum is here. Will ask lots of questions becuse I have never owned a motorcycle and am not too sure on the service. Thanks for taking time to read this. Would love to see others bikes and what not.[/quote]
2009 Honda Cb1000R