Forum Replies Created
-
Replies
-
I think you are making a bit of an apples and oranges comparison here. OBD-II was developed because the government wanted to increase emission control and to standardize the ability of them to measure it. Prior to that everyone made their own tool with their own plug and did not have to be measuring the same things. Codes could mean anything make to make. OBD-II leveled that field greatly, allowing one standard port and one tool to have access to a lot of codes that meant the same thing across all makes. A P0301 is a cylinder 1 miss on a Honda, Ford, Jeep, everything. Hence it being referred to as Global OBD codes. No manufacturer could force you to enter a password to access it, nobody could monitor it without being directly and physically inside of your vehicle. There was no system installed in vehicles to track them by satellite nor was there a method by which someone outside of your vehicle could shut the engine down and lock your doors. The government ruled that automakers could not withhold from the public the information needed to service these systems. The codes inside you car were not privy just to the dealership, which would constitute a monopoly.
Boy, things have surely changed. When techs were angry about the end of carbs, it was because the familiar and easy work they had done their entire lives was changing. Unless they underwent a paradigm shift inside their own heads and increased not only their knowledge base but their tooling they were going to be rendered obsolete as techs. Many left the industry due to this. Others adapted and thrived.
Now the vehicles are not just vehicles with an electronic control for the engine. They are Wi-Fi hotspots, synchronizing with smartphones and the internet. You cannot lock out a manufacturer from seeing what is going on in the car. If they want, they can. We also have a world where more money is out to be stolen from a nameless face with a keyboard than has ever been taken by an armed man with a ski mask. We have a world where data is the new currency and is being mined in every way possible to exploit the public. Automakers want to find more ways to utilize this and if they are the only ones with access they will have nobody able to check them on it and prevent them from doing it. You would have to hope for an automaker version of Snowden to come forth to even know about it yet at that point the damage would already have been done.
If you think you can trust the government or a corporation to do the right thing, you must not have checked the news in a few decades. They absolutely can do exactly what I have hypothesized if they buy a few court rulings first. See, the software is copyright protected, so you must pay to have updates flashed into your car. You cannot copy it and load it into other cars yourself, it would be piracy. So it is protected intellectual property. Now they need the next step, which is what they are trying to do now. They need to get a judge to rule that you do not own it when it is in your car. If you are just using it under license then it is not yours. Therefore they can choose to modify terms of service (that fine print nobody reads) anytime they want, So maybe this latest term states you can only have it if you agree to allow the carmakers to follow your locations (data they can sell to advertisers) and driving habits (you think your insurance company might be willing to spend a few bucks for that). They also can set an expiration of the license and require you to upgrade at set times. A problem created not because the vehicle was broken but because they wanted to change it. Just like Microsoft not supporting XP. They didn’t take XP away, they just made sure that you cannot update it so you lose functionality until the machine is no longer worth having. This in turn forces you to buy a new machine.
You can call it fearmongering, paranoia or whatever else you like, but I would like you to think about that comparison I have made. The only reason they haven’t done it already is because they are prevented from doing so. There are legal constraints to doing so. They are seeking to remove those constraints and just expect us to blindly trust that they are doing things in our best interests. Once they arrive at the point where we as a society figured out what they did it will already be too late. This is a whole different ballgame in the internet age than it was in 93.
[quote=”Summer_Night” post=135476]
A vehicle is a pile of plastic and metal. WHY would roaches, bees, hornets, or other insects want to be in them? I mean first of all, for a non-flying bug to make it’s way from the ground to the cabin would not be easy.Second – so what does the tech do when they find drugs? What are they suppose to do? Report it? Pretend it doesn’t exist?[/quote]
A vehicle makes great shelter from the weather. Bugs and rodents can get in and predators cannot. Smart animals would seek out a car. Its not about convenience for them, but survival. A vehicle may just be plastic and metal, but the humans in it are messy creatures. Always spilling sugary drinks and dropping crumbs of food so from an insect point of view its like the penthouse suite at the Hilton.
Your second question is really up to the tech and the shop. Lot of grey area here. I’ve never worked at a shop that had a policy about what we find. I think the general implied rule is what is in our customer’s property is to be left alone, it isn’t our business. Just like if you were an appliance guy installing a new washer in someone’s house, what they have in their home isn’t your business. It’s certainly a taboo to take any of it, so generally you ignore it.
Also, it kinda depends on what and how much you find. For instance, pot is becoming more and more legal or in other areas decriminalized. I’m all for legalizing it myself even though I don’t smoke it as I do not feel it to be any more harmful than other legal venues people have to get messed up. I do make sure to point out discreetly to people who leave it in plain sight that they need to be concealing it so as not to get arrested, and they have thanked me for that. Its not like someone who is transporting a fresh load of cocaine is going to stop in for some work on his car, right? They do not stop anywhere or let outside people near the car. Now I have seen needle rigs on occasion, but most addicts are paranoid enough to keep their stuff on them. Drugs like coke, meth and heroin are quite expensive after all.
Now if someone had a vehicle where it was obvious to me that they were cooking meth in, and there was clear proof of such a thing in front of me, that would pose a dilemma. I do not wish to be subject to retaliation from junkies or drug dealers, I would be not only losing a customer but not being paid for the repair bill, I would have cops to deal with at my shop, and since not everyone would know the details of the story there may be people in the general public who think I just like to get my customers arrested. That in turn is all sorts of bad for business. Yet I also have 4 kids and I have personally seen in other people just how terrible a drug like meth is for all of humanity. What if the local accountant, a middle aged businessman who pays his bills and is a loyal customer, hears I got someone arrested when I found drugs in the car? Say that accountant likes to smoke a little weed on his off time? So can he trust bringing his car to me, as being arrested would be very damaging to his career? Just as Eric mentioned that you would be surprised who out there is packing a gun, you’d be surprised just how many people out there smoke weed. Getting them busted could be bad news for your shop and that will be bad news for your job.
Throw bolts into it. You are right up close to it now. Just draw it up evenly until you are dead flush. The reason a warning about not pulling it in with bolts was given is that some people will have it an inch or more out and just try to suck it in with long bolts. But that’s usually when they didn’t have anything lined up properly and they end up doing major damage. When you know its piloted through the clutch disc and pilot bearing you are good to go.
Sometimes you do need to throw a little muscle into it to get that last little bit of distance covered, it just needs to be done with some restraint to be sure it isn’t going to break anything.
It adjusts fuel trims by bank but its pretty good at seeing issues. If it had to adjust the pulsewidth on all of one bank’s injectors because one was screwing things up, pretty fast it would see A/F ratios reacting wrong or a misfire and would know something is up. That in turn would generate codes. Then again, feel free to get some experience with it and do some testing.
If you fire off the injectors at 50 pulses, hold the gas to the floor and crank the engine between each cylinder tested. That way you give it a chance to run and not have all your cylinders puddled up with gas. Flooring the engine puts the PCM into clear flood mode, and it will not fire the injectors during cranking to allow you to clear a flooded engine.
Good info to know. I didn’t realize that was a problem. Any idea if the older B-W trans fall under this as well, like the granny low T-18?
Ok, with a returnless system that changes things and brings us on the same page. Makes sense to me now with your earlier post.
These injectors are pretty good in my opinion. I really don’t see pattern failures out of them that would make me want to throw a whole set at it for one being bad. Its not like a Ford COP ignition coil where once you see them failing you toss a new set at it. If you only see one leaking, just give it one. If more than one, might think of just doing them all. Its your call. This is a pretty easy one to go back into if you have to, so were another injector to fail down the road its not like you have to pull half the truck apart to go back in.
Returnless systems can be a pain to test, but they have been good at stopping pump failures since the pump only runs just enough to keep the rail pressurized. Have that system in my girl’s Camry and the guys at the Toyota dealer told me the things are practically bulletproof. They don’t even stock them as they don’t see them fail.
I missed the post where you mentioned using the Castrol. I’ve seen people dump the cheapo Dex/Merc into everything and do major damage so I figured I would mention it. The Castrol stuff should be fine.
Breaking bleeders can and does happen. I use a 6-point 1/4 drive socket when I go to break them loose to prevent rounding of it. After you do it long enough (and break enough of the little bastards off) you get a feel for how much force you can give it before you know its not going to come out without help. Then you will need a torch to heat around the casting to try turning it again. Some will be so seized in that no matter what it will break. Sometimes you get lucky. With a bit of torch heat I was able to open the front bleeders on my saltbelt encrusted 1990 Bronco. The rears I knew weren’t going to go and I just pitched the wheel cylinders from the start. After I do get them out, I take them to the wire wheel on the grinder and give them a bit of never seize on the threads before they go back in. If really rusty I just replace them with new ones.
If you plan on going for SS lines, make sure you have the cash to afford new calipers/ wheel cylinders if the bleeders will not come out. I have not had any luck extracting broken ones. Was able to rounded ones out by welding a nut to them, but that’s a different scenario altogether. You can always try cracking the bleeders loose before you start taking anything apart. If you break them off, you haven’t opened the system up yet and can stop right there until you have the parts in hand to do the job. If you do the lines first and then break the bleeder off, you are stuck with a vehicle that cannot be driven. I’m in the habit of trying the bleeders first because of that. Then I can call the customer and explain to them what it is going to take to do the job without having disabled the car.
I like 50 pulses. A single pulse will not show much other than the injector is capable of clicking. To see a real pressure difference you need multiple pulses. You could use 100 but it seems a bit excessive and depending how long the pulsewidth is could drop the pressure so low on all of them that it would be difficult to get a real valid result out of the test.
Plan on pulling your plugs out. Eight cylinders pulsing 50 times each means 400 pulses worth of fuel in the intake and you don’t want that taking a chance of hydrolocking or getting down into the cat when you go to start up. Much better to just hold the throttle open and crank the motor to throw the extra gas out of the cylinders.
Are you doing this test because you have an issue or just a preventative check on how the injectors are performing?
It can be a bit of a trick to get the pilot bearing end to go in. Do you have a bit of grease on the trans input shaft? How about on the dowels? Makes life much easier. Did you replace the rear main seal while you had it apart? I always do as the work involved to go back in for it later just isn’t worth it.
I’ve never gotten a pilot bearing that was the wrong size before. Not saying its impossible, but never happened to me or anyone I know. Put your finger around the edge of it. Feel for any sort of slight burr that could be there. The edge should have a slight chamfer to allow easier install but if the guy installing it got a little hammer happy it could leave a lip or burr of a few .001’s that would make getting it piloted in a real pain.
Make sure you aren’t just using regular ATF when you do this. It should take Mercon LV if I recall. For sure check the owner’s manual for it. The factory Motorcraft fluid isn’t really out of line as far as price goes. If you wanted to upgrade to a synthetic like Royal Purple or something you need to make sure it meets that spec.
I’m getting confused about what you mean by fuel pump side and injector side. The way this system works, the fuel pump pushes the fuel in a constant loop. There is a check valve in it that only allows fuel to head to the rail which allows the fuel rail to stay pressurized and not just bleed off every time you shut off the truck. The fuel flows into the injector rail and on the return side a regulator is placed which will not allow outward flow until its preset pressure has been reached. After leaving the regulator it flows back to the fuel tank.
Now obviously the system is not perfect, and some bleed down will happen over time. This is why the pump turns on for 2 seconds when the key is first turned to the run position. After that it turns off until the vehicle receives a signal from the crank position sensor telling it that the engine is turning over and more fuel will be needed.
The flooded condition you seem to describe when trying to start it coupled with your fuel pressure bleed off means that the fuel is ending up in your intake manifold. Either you have a leaky injector or a bad fuel pressure regulator. Try taking the vacuum hose off of the regulator. Do you see any wetness? Then run the engine with the vac line off and watch for a minute. You will see if it leaks fuel, which would be drawn into the intake and along with bleeding your rail pressure would flood the engine. If the regulator is working properly without leakage, you would need to be checking injectors. If I recall correctly, this fuel rail isn’t too hard to pull out. I would get some small Dixie cups and put one under each injector. Pressurize the rail and watch. You know you are losing pressure within 15 minutes so its not going to take long to see which one is dripping. Be sure to replace all the injector O-rings before you reinstall the rail and lubricate them with some silicone spray so they do not get damaged during installation.
If you go to a sewing supply section of a store get some t-pins. They get into the backside of wiring plugs quite nicely. You see them used a lot in ScannerDanner vids. Getting rid of the engine light is going to be the challenge of the day it seems, but with your fuel trims running +25 or so obviously there is an issue.
Trying to think a little and not focus too narrowly on the problem. Getting tunnel vision can send a guy chasing his tail a bit. That vac hose has me thinking though. Can you look for misfire counters? If you get a miss, your engine commands more fuel as the extra O2 is seen as a lean condition. With fuel in a vac line I would wonder if your fuel pressure regulator has a leak on the diaphragm which allows enough fuel in to choke it off a bit. The misfire it causes when doing that sends extra o2 past the o2 sensor and the ECM thinks you ran lean.
While with most anything GM I go for Delphi/ Delco parts, remember that Bosch was the OE for most everything on this motor as it is Saab. On that Saturn I worked on I actually had good luck getting parts at Advance Auto because they are basically Bosch’s whore. But for something where I needed an exact OE part, they had it in stock. I don’t particularly like Bosch products unless it was something that took it OE.
Your scope can be used quite well for what you are trying to do, you just have to know where to set your scales at and read the waveform right. The database on the Modis does certainly shorten the learning curve but its not cheap. About a grand a year to update it. Right now I can get up to 2012 models American and Asian. Never got the euro software as I just hate working with euro cars.
By the way, those torx headed bolts all over your motor are not regular torx. They are torx plus. A regular torx socket won’t get all the way down and feels sloppy because torx plus makes a slight bell shape at the bottom. Had to buy a set of sockets for it from my snap on rep when I got dragged into dealing with that Saturn motor.
Its not a big deal for me to go scope that Saturn to help you out. The car is only a few miles from me and is owned by a friend. What could be of some benefit for you is to scope the signal before and after you clean it. Then you know if you have made any sort of change to the reading of it.
Have you seen this vid? Seems like it might be useful.
So I guess in their eyes you, me and Chevyman basically drive a middle finger on 4 wheels. Cheers to that.
We make it look easy and have all the tips to give because once we were new and doing it for the first time. We struggled and swore and had to figure it out. After that we learned.
That is a tight coil. I cringed a bit when I saw the pic of the compressor biting on top of the strut mount. Glad you just set it there for a picture, and didn’t try to do it.
I have found quick struts to be the way to go. When I am bidding a job I always use them unless they simply are not available for the car I’m working on. By the time I add up the strut, mount and the rubber dampers that sit around the spring, I am close to the cost of a quick strut anyway. When I total up the labor, it is cheaper for the customer to buy quick struts. On GM cars the coil springs tend to break when they age, so putting a new spring in is kinda like insurance from a pattern failure there. Also, I would rather swap the whole unit rather than screw around with the spring. I can bang out the job fast and still make my money.
I am a little surprised that the control arm bolt wasn’t seized in like the fork bolt was. Wondered if it would be when I posted the idea to you. But I figured I may as well mention something to get you that last bit of clearance. I’m glad my suggestions helped you. Thats why Eric created this board and others post on it. I don’t mind helping out my fellow man with the knowledge I have gained from years of experience. As much as getting your clothes ripped up and skin covered in grime isn’t the greatest, doesn’t it feel good when something finally works out and you did it yourself? Kind of an empowering thing.
Thanks for the detail in your writing and in the pics you post. Helps everyone get on the same page. I hate it when people get really vague while asked for help and its really hard to help people who don’t give you the needed info to do so. It was easy to follow what you were doing and where the problem was because of the detail you gave.