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What timbobodyguy said unless you have the tools, can reach the dent from behind, and know how tap it out. Could save on later paint repairs, maybe enough to buy the tools but knowledge means a lot with paintless dent removal.
What timbobodyguy said unless you have the tools, can reach the dent from behind, and know how tap it out. Could save on later paint repairs, maybe enough to buy the tools but knowledge means a lot with paintless dent removal.
THE PROBLEM IS NOT THE MECHANICS! (I hope this did not post twice, when I looked I did not see the first one I sent)
The problem is more likely the imposter mechanics, greedy large national repair shops, along with the states lack of enforcement, and oversight. This is all about bringing in more money than is deserved and many times earned.
wysetech, if you searched out the few post that I have made here you will soon realize this has been an on-going problem for our family in Tampa. We used to live in California, Texas, and Oklahoma but we never had the quantity of repair rip off problems we have seen here in Tampa.
Without knowing for certain, I have come to think this must have something to do with local and state regulations / enforcement in Florida. Seldom do we hear anything on our news about Law Enfiorcement stopping any of these bad operations in our area. The last time I remember was when they did a story on Pep-Boys when the Highway Patrol went in during a Law Enforcement Sting. This was around 15 years ago.
Given the lax enforcement, anyone is pretty much able to do as they wish in our state, the industry they operate within makes little or no differance. On the other hand, in Oklahoma, we heard of service shops across several industries getting caught from time to time and the problem did not seem to be nearly as rampant.
Now to my point, I AM NOT SO CERTAIN THESE CROOKS ARE CERTIFIED MECHANICS. They are likely just criminals who have figured out how to beat getting a real job and get their hands on a lot of cash. Anyone can rent a service bay, get a uniform, ASE patches on the shirts, and a great deal of men in general know how to do quite a bit of basic auto repair work. Those things combined can make a scam artist seem credible when first talking with them.
Florida simply seems to have more than our share of this nonsince going on. Unless I am mistaken I believe they found organized crime involved in the vending machine, limousine, and taxi industries a couple of decades back. Tampa has a history of organized crime going back over a century. The Trafficanti family called Tampa home for decades.
I believe we have a flood of criminal service field imposters. I think we have a flood of imposters, who can do light auto repairs, posing as mechanics in this state. In fact I am certain of that and the problem is not only mechanics, it is any business sophisticated enough for the general population to not be able to tell if they are legitimate or not. There are also a few legitimate businesses who have become greed struck from lack of regulation invloved in this too. These places are nearly paid by individuals, many times in cash only so they can hide the income from IRS.
For those like yourself who believe in an honest days work for a full days wages you should be proud of what you do and your profession. At the same time you should be just as angry as I am with those who rip off consumers and damage your hard earned educationand professional status through association of falsely being in the same field of work.
I will be one to readily tell anyone a genuine mechanic who has gone to school and obtained their certifications is far from the shade tree or criminal type. Even a shade tree mechanic has more integrity than the criminals ripping us off. Well educated and certified mechanics are very intelligent, professional people, who have knowledge and skills the rest of society does not have. It is the very reason why they do such a great job for us and why we have no problem paying them for the value of their knowledge and skills. Without these skilled professionals none of us would drive a dependable auto.
Wysetech, I want to clean this problem up as much for people like yourself as I do for consumers. Everyone is affected by it including the nation being cheated out of millions in tax collections.
As an aside, our state Physicians are suffering the same thing trained mechanics are in Florida. I bet you have heard about all the pain clinics dispensing prescriptions to anyone walking in off the street. This went on for years without the threat of criminal action against them. It was only after surrounding states and states in the north east realized the narcotics problem in their areas had significantly increased because of the problem in Florida. When the problem was seen nation wide Florida began to crack down, arrest, and close those clinics down.
We are also the state where numerous medical supply operations are fraudlently taking billions of dollars out of medicaid and medicare. OUR VERY OWN CURRENTLY SITTING STATE GOVERNOR’S COMPANY WAS FINED THE LARGEST FINE IN U.S. HISTORY AFTER THE COMPANY WAS CONVICTED OF MEDICARE FRAUD AMOUNTING TO BILLIONS OF DOLLARS. He still managed to buy his way into the Governors office, Google it if you think I am exagerating.
With this kind of history in the state of Florida I am certain you can understand why we have such a large problem. Be glad your business is in Canada and be thankful for any regulations Canada has to keep your industry clean. MOST OF ALL BE PROUD OF WHAT YOU DO!
THE PROBLEM IS NOT THE MECHANICS! (I hope this did not post twice, when I looked I did not see the first one I sent)
The problem is more likely the imposter mechanics, greedy large national repair shops, along with the states lack of enforcement, and oversight. This is all about bringing in more money than is deserved and many times earned.
wysetech, if you searched out the few post that I have made here you will soon realize this has been an on-going problem for our family in Tampa. We used to live in California, Texas, and Oklahoma but we never had the quantity of repair rip off problems we have seen here in Tampa.
Without knowing for certain, I have come to think this must have something to do with local and state regulations / enforcement in Florida. Seldom do we hear anything on our news about Law Enfiorcement stopping any of these bad operations in our area. The last time I remember was when they did a story on Pep-Boys when the Highway Patrol went in during a Law Enforcement Sting. This was around 15 years ago.
Given the lax enforcement, anyone is pretty much able to do as they wish in our state, the industry they operate within makes little or no differance. On the other hand, in Oklahoma, we heard of service shops across several industries getting caught from time to time and the problem did not seem to be nearly as rampant.
Now to my point, I AM NOT SO CERTAIN THESE CROOKS ARE CERTIFIED MECHANICS. They are likely just criminals who have figured out how to beat getting a real job and get their hands on a lot of cash. Anyone can rent a service bay, get a uniform, ASE patches on the shirts, and a great deal of men in general know how to do quite a bit of basic auto repair work. Those things combined can make a scam artist seem credible when first talking with them.
Florida simply seems to have more than our share of this nonsince going on. Unless I am mistaken I believe they found organized crime involved in the vending machine, limousine, and taxi industries a couple of decades back. Tampa has a history of organized crime going back over a century. The Trafficanti family called Tampa home for decades.
I believe we have a flood of criminal service field imposters. I think we have a flood of imposters, who can do light auto repairs, posing as mechanics in this state. In fact I am certain of that and the problem is not only mechanics, it is any business sophisticated enough for the general population to not be able to tell if they are legitimate or not. There are also a few legitimate businesses who have become greed struck from lack of regulation invloved in this too. These places are nearly paid by individuals, many times in cash only so they can hide the income from IRS.
For those like yourself who believe in an honest days work for a full days wages you should be proud of what you do and your profession. At the same time you should be just as angry as I am with those who rip off consumers and damage your hard earned educationand professional status through association of falsely being in the same field of work.
I will be one to readily tell anyone a genuine mechanic who has gone to school and obtained their certifications is far from the shade tree or criminal type. Even a shade tree mechanic has more integrity than the criminals ripping us off. Well educated and certified mechanics are very intelligent, professional people, who have knowledge and skills the rest of society does not have. It is the very reason why they do such a great job for us and why we have no problem paying them for the value of their knowledge and skills. Without these skilled professionals none of us would drive a dependable auto.
Wysetech, I want to clean this problem up as much for people like yourself as I do for consumers. Everyone is affected by it including the nation being cheated out of millions in tax collections.
As an aside, our state Physicians are suffering the same thing trained mechanics are in Florida. I bet you have heard about all the pain clinics dispensing prescriptions to anyone walking in off the street. This went on for years without the threat of criminal action against them. It was only after surrounding states and states in the north east realized the narcotics problem in their areas had significantly increased because of the problem in Florida. When the problem was seen nation wide Florida began to crack down, arrest, and close those clinics down.
We are also the state where numerous medical supply operations are fraudlently taking billions of dollars out of medicaid and medicare. OUR VERY OWN CURRENTLY SITTING STATE GOVERNOR’S COMPANY WAS FINED THE LARGEST FINE IN U.S. HISTORY AFTER THE COMPANY WAS CONVICTED OF MEDICARE FRAUD AMOUNTING TO BILLIONS OF DOLLARS. He still managed to buy his way into the Governors office, Google it if you think I am exagerating.
With this kind of history in the state of Florida I am certain you can understand why we have such a large problem. Be glad your business is in Canada and be thankful for any regulations Canada has to keep your industry clean. MOST OF ALL BE PROUD OF WHAT YOU DO!
wysetech, I agree with you, I also want to believe there are more honest mechanics than dishonest. The worst part, outside of taking criminal advantage of customers, is the after effect it leaves with customers every time they encounter a repair facility. Until several visits customers have a difficult time trusting anyone in the trade.
None of the folks in the forum would be here if they were not interested in getting things done right. This is a quality the vast majority of scam artist could care less about and I point this out because nothing in my writing is addressing anyone in this forum.
The mechanic I wrote about is one of those in Tampa, Florida (there are MANY here) who don’t value the trade and intentionally rip customers off, including large national auto repair companies. These people and companies value quick cash for little or no work in exchange. I believe we generally call those operators con artist. I and scores of others have found these unreputable operations in nearly every service trade you can name. When ever there is a job which requires knowledge, skills, and labor anyone can find a con artist ready to ply their lies on those who are lacking in any one or more of the three areas pointed out.
This reminds me of when the TV networks produce undercover televised stings of service trade repairmen. The results are more people caught being dishonest than offering and doing honest work when those stings are aired. With this in mind I agree all of us would like to believe the auto rtepair industry is mostly on the up and up but given what we have seen room is certainly left to make those not in the industry wonder if this is really true.
Today was one of those rare days when I could help a daughter learn what to look for and that part went well. She had been falling for a seemingly genuine concern for her safety and vehicle although it was only a well played out act. Fortunately she is not a kid anymore and will listen to dad instead of deciding she knows best all the time. I don’t fault her for her childhood ways, we all went through those years, but now she has a family and needed to learn this lesson about the shop she was unintentionally covering for, given their record of poor and or non-existant work charged for.
As things evolved today I realized I likely knew what the problem was with my daughter van, verified it, and got the part to make the quick repair (15 seconds work at most, no tools required). Prior to that we had discussed her finding a good shop to do the work (she was not near my home) and she suggested going back to this shade tree scam artist housed in a nice shop. A shop I strongly suspected of ripping her and my wife off in the past. That was when I came up with the plan to expose the shop staff in front of my daughter so ask her to go along with my plan. My suspicion was right and we caught the guy dead in the act of attempting a rip off of more than $100.00 with potential to go hundreds of dollars higher.
Like most young ladies my daughter has a bunch of friends who talk constantly with each other. Knowing how they tend to listen to each other when one recommends or complains about someone to do work I would bet this guys business goes down from that aspect alone. Not to mention each of those friends mentioning this to others my daughter is not acquinted with.
My wife also knows about this now and she also talks everyones ears off daily. All in all this may be a much better outcome than I had even hoped for. The word will soon spread about this shop and what happened with us today.
OTHER PERSONAL TIPS THAT MAY HELP AVOID A BAD SITUATION LATER.
There are still things we can do the help insure we came to the right place for repair work. Most of us do not demand the right kind of guarantee for work performed. Instead of accepting a gurantee for work done we should ask for a written GUARANTEE THAT REPAIRS WERE MADE TO CORRECT THE PROBLEM along with any specific parts gurantees they offer.You can search the web and find guarantee text that you can print, fill in, and attach to service documents prior to work starting. Ask the shop owner or manager to sign with title, date, and attach this to your service invoice also. Be sure to provide a copy for the shop as well as yourself. Get a signed copy of the gurantee before work begins along with a signed estimate of preliminary charges and other repair cost.
Note: I am not an attorney, these are my ideas of what should work but bear in mind wording is important. You will need a document to describe what is being repaired and or replaced, the shop where work is done, shop invoice number, date, and length of time your gurantee is effective from the date of work completion along with the person authorizing the gurantee. It is important that the guarantee be recognized as the primary repair work gurantee and that it states it superseedes all other conflicting product warranties and service gurantees. Ask an attorney if your not certain what you want written in your gurantee.
Lastly, many shops do not provide a SIGNED written copy of preliminary estimates for work to be done. This is an important thing that you must have in your posession prior to work begining. The reason is to insure the understanding between you and the repair shop. Many states have laws regulating the amount of charges above the estimated price that a shop can legaly charge for work performed. In Florida I believe this is $100.00 for example, if a shop estimates parts and labor of $200.00 but charges you $400.00 after repairs are complete they have violated state statutes and your rights limiting what they can charge without your ADDITIONAL written consent.
DO NOT BE SHY ABOUT PROTECTING YOURSELF. If a shop complains politely ask why they protect their interest in writing but do not want you to protect yours? It is a fair question and being up front on this will get the best results. If you have difficulty take your vehicle elsewhere, when you find a shop that will allow this you have likely found a shop you know you can trust. Large national or Regional shops will usually decline these agreements because they do not have anyone authorized to make them on site. What I prefer is a financially sound locally owned and operated shop with a stellar reputation and qualified staff or a local new car dealer who depends on his reputation for sales. These shops are around and I have had wonderful experiences with most of them.
Remember a bad apple can go sour in a good barrel, be careful before you condem the entire shop because of one persons greed. Sometime it takes a short time before management catches them, a case where management and the shop are also victims along with their customers.
wysetech, I agree with you, I also want to believe there are more honest mechanics than dishonest. The worst part, outside of taking criminal advantage of customers, is the after effect it leaves with customers every time they encounter a repair facility. Until several visits customers have a difficult time trusting anyone in the trade.
None of the folks in the forum would be here if they were not interested in getting things done right. This is a quality the vast majority of scam artist could care less about and I point this out because nothing in my writing is addressing anyone in this forum.
The mechanic I wrote about is one of those in Tampa, Florida (there are MANY here) who don’t value the trade and intentionally rip customers off, including large national auto repair companies. These people and companies value quick cash for little or no work in exchange. I believe we generally call those operators con artist. I and scores of others have found these unreputable operations in nearly every service trade you can name. When ever there is a job which requires knowledge, skills, and labor anyone can find a con artist ready to ply their lies on those who are lacking in any one or more of the three areas pointed out.
This reminds me of when the TV networks produce undercover televised stings of service trade repairmen. The results are more people caught being dishonest than offering and doing honest work when those stings are aired. With this in mind I agree all of us would like to believe the auto rtepair industry is mostly on the up and up but given what we have seen room is certainly left to make those not in the industry wonder if this is really true.
Today was one of those rare days when I could help a daughter learn what to look for and that part went well. She had been falling for a seemingly genuine concern for her safety and vehicle although it was only a well played out act. Fortunately she is not a kid anymore and will listen to dad instead of deciding she knows best all the time. I don’t fault her for her childhood ways, we all went through those years, but now she has a family and needed to learn this lesson about the shop she was unintentionally covering for, given their record of poor and or non-existant work charged for.
As things evolved today I realized I likely knew what the problem was with my daughter van, verified it, and got the part to make the quick repair (15 seconds work at most, no tools required). Prior to that we had discussed her finding a good shop to do the work (she was not near my home) and she suggested going back to this shade tree scam artist housed in a nice shop. A shop I strongly suspected of ripping her and my wife off in the past. That was when I came up with the plan to expose the shop staff in front of my daughter so ask her to go along with my plan. My suspicion was right and we caught the guy dead in the act of attempting a rip off of more than $100.00 with potential to go hundreds of dollars higher.
Like most young ladies my daughter has a bunch of friends who talk constantly with each other. Knowing how they tend to listen to each other when one recommends or complains about someone to do work I would bet this guys business goes down from that aspect alone. Not to mention each of those friends mentioning this to others my daughter is not acquinted with.
My wife also knows about this now and she also talks everyones ears off daily. All in all this may be a much better outcome than I had even hoped for. The word will soon spread about this shop and what happened with us today.
OTHER PERSONAL TIPS THAT MAY HELP AVOID A BAD SITUATION LATER.
There are still things we can do the help insure we came to the right place for repair work. Most of us do not demand the right kind of guarantee for work performed. Instead of accepting a gurantee for work done we should ask for a written GUARANTEE THAT REPAIRS WERE MADE TO CORRECT THE PROBLEM along with any specific parts gurantees they offer.You can search the web and find guarantee text that you can print, fill in, and attach to service documents prior to work starting. Ask the shop owner or manager to sign with title, date, and attach this to your service invoice also. Be sure to provide a copy for the shop as well as yourself. Get a signed copy of the gurantee before work begins along with a signed estimate of preliminary charges and other repair cost.
Note: I am not an attorney, these are my ideas of what should work but bear in mind wording is important. You will need a document to describe what is being repaired and or replaced, the shop where work is done, shop invoice number, date, and length of time your gurantee is effective from the date of work completion along with the person authorizing the gurantee. It is important that the guarantee be recognized as the primary repair work gurantee and that it states it superseedes all other conflicting product warranties and service gurantees. Ask an attorney if your not certain what you want written in your gurantee.
Lastly, many shops do not provide a SIGNED written copy of preliminary estimates for work to be done. This is an important thing that you must have in your posession prior to work begining. The reason is to insure the understanding between you and the repair shop. Many states have laws regulating the amount of charges above the estimated price that a shop can legaly charge for work performed. In Florida I believe this is $100.00 for example, if a shop estimates parts and labor of $200.00 but charges you $400.00 after repairs are complete they have violated state statutes and your rights limiting what they can charge without your ADDITIONAL written consent.
DO NOT BE SHY ABOUT PROTECTING YOURSELF. If a shop complains politely ask why they protect their interest in writing but do not want you to protect yours? It is a fair question and being up front on this will get the best results. If you have difficulty take your vehicle elsewhere, when you find a shop that will allow this you have likely found a shop you know you can trust. Large national or Regional shops will usually decline these agreements because they do not have anyone authorized to make them on site. What I prefer is a financially sound locally owned and operated shop with a stellar reputation and qualified staff or a local new car dealer who depends on his reputation for sales. These shops are around and I have had wonderful experiences with most of them.
Remember a bad apple can go sour in a good barrel, be careful before you condem the entire shop because of one persons greed. Sometime it takes a short time before management catches them, a case where management and the shop are also victims along with their customers.
THANKS guys for the SPEEDY info! 😉
I also ran across a tech tip article involving valve cover rotation at lower RPM’s for the 3.5 liter engine. It is here and details each step in repairing the problem. http://www.underhoodservice.com/Article/67328/tech_tip_multiple_cylinder_misfire_or_rough_idle_on_chrysler_models.aspx
It seems this is caused when the engine is not allowed to reach higher RPMs and is primarily driven mostly for shorter distances. We rarely get on the expressway in town and generally never exceed 50 mph on city streets.
What I have decided to do is reset the MIL light and see if the problem re-occurs. As noted the engine is not running rough and excelleration is excellent. Maybe there is a small carbon build up around the valve covers preventing them from properly rotating.
If the problem returns I will come back with more history.
THANKS guys for the SPEEDY info! 😉
I also ran across a tech tip article involving valve cover rotation at lower RPM’s for the 3.5 liter engine. It is here and details each step in repairing the problem. http://www.underhoodservice.com/Article/67328/tech_tip_multiple_cylinder_misfire_or_rough_idle_on_chrysler_models.aspx
It seems this is caused when the engine is not allowed to reach higher RPMs and is primarily driven mostly for shorter distances. We rarely get on the expressway in town and generally never exceed 50 mph on city streets.
What I have decided to do is reset the MIL light and see if the problem re-occurs. As noted the engine is not running rough and excelleration is excellent. Maybe there is a small carbon build up around the valve covers preventing them from properly rotating.
If the problem returns I will come back with more history.
I finally caved on this topic and decided to do some auto trim modification instead.
Since the rubber was overlaid on the chrome molding (which is in very good conditiion) I got a razor knife and carefully went around the entire vehicle cutting and pealing off 1/2 inch of of the 3/4 inch rubber overlay. The part left was much thicker rubber and is securely held in place.
Our car actually looks better than the factory design for the trim now. Several who have seen the finished job commented on how much better it looks. I have to be satisfied with that for an outcome.
If I decide to replace the missing rubber I will use some spray on rubber coating after masking the area to spray and peal off any excess overspray when the tape is removed. I did a little experiment with this technique and it seemed to work very well. I could not tell the original rubber had been removed, the spray rubber blended with the thick piece of trim rubber remaining and looked like a single piece of rubber trim.
Thank you for the replies!
I finally caved on this topic and decided to do some auto trim modification instead.
Since the rubber was overlaid on the chrome molding (which is in very good conditiion) I got a razor knife and carefully went around the entire vehicle cutting and pealing off 1/2 inch of of the 3/4 inch rubber overlay. The part left was much thicker rubber and is securely held in place.
Our car actually looks better than the factory design for the trim now. Several who have seen the finished job commented on how much better it looks. I have to be satisfied with that for an outcome.
If I decide to replace the missing rubber I will use some spray on rubber coating after masking the area to spray and peal off any excess overspray when the tape is removed. I did a little experiment with this technique and it seemed to work very well. I could not tell the original rubber had been removed, the spray rubber blended with the thick piece of trim rubber remaining and looked like a single piece of rubber trim.
Thank you for the replies!
I tried to go to makeitmopar.com but only got a search page of some sort. They may have vanished from the web or the name is slightly wrong.
Thanks
I tried to go to makeitmopar.com but only got a search page of some sort. They may have vanished from the web or the name is slightly wrong.
Thanks
Private message sent to you on ETCG.
There are a number of paintless dent removal tools available that act as tiny hammers which cann be use on the reverse side of the dents to work them out. The tools are very effective on small dents but they require knowledge of how to use them effectively.
You can also find many products designed to pull small dents but most of those products are over hyped and seldom work.
If you can sand to metal the dents can be pulled using a dent pulling machine that in effect sopt wels a rod to the dent and leverage is use to pull the rod and attached dent back into position. High spots areund the perimeter of the dent can be worked out with aa sweeping motion using a body hammer.
Read the PM I sent you and after I hear from you I will help you find the solution you need to suit your purposes. Knowing what kind or type of dent (round depression, deep crease, on an edge, rounded surface, or angeled body bend, etc.) will be helpful. Also I assume your working with a steel body surface, if not let us know.
Private message sent to you on ETCG.
There are a number of paintless dent removal tools available that act as tiny hammers which cann be use on the reverse side of the dents to work them out. The tools are very effective on small dents but they require knowledge of how to use them effectively.
You can also find many products designed to pull small dents but most of those products are over hyped and seldom work.
If you can sand to metal the dents can be pulled using a dent pulling machine that in effect sopt wels a rod to the dent and leverage is use to pull the rod and attached dent back into position. High spots areund the perimeter of the dent can be worked out with aa sweeping motion using a body hammer.
Read the PM I sent you and after I hear from you I will help you find the solution you need to suit your purposes. Knowing what kind or type of dent (round depression, deep crease, on an edge, rounded surface, or angeled body bend, etc.) will be helpful. Also I assume your working with a steel body surface, if not let us know.
[quote=”UncleJohn” post=59943]Ok if its a huge dent I know a thousand ways to remove it, but how on earth do I get these little dents out? Bout the size of nickels… There way to small to drill and pull, too small to use suction, and its metal so heat flashing wont work either.. Any ideas?[/quote]
I have a friend who purchased parts and made a small but very strong electro-magnet for tiny hail dents in his vehicle. Since it was an electro-magnet an increase in current developed more magnetism and the dents popped out quickly all over the car.I do not know where he got the parts to make the magnet but they are fairly simple to make. After he pulled the dents, any that pulled too hard he went over with a body hammer on top of a piece of felt so as not to mar the finish. His end results were amazing!
The trick he used was to gently pop the dents back into shape using multiple tugs of the small strong magnet.
CAUTION: DISCONNECT THE VEHICLE BATTERY NEGATIVE TERMINAL BEFORE TRYING THIS. I would hate to have someone set off a sensor and deploy air bags. They can cause death or injury easily not to mention the cost of replacing an air bag.