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[quote=”WyrTwister” post=188418]Are you talking about Cadweld or BURNDYWeld ?
[/quote]I would have to dig out the catalogs to tell you which exothermic we used for tower grounds, everything came in a self contained kit. I could not see using anything like we used for towers used for autos but something much smaller that would heat and bond without a torch. There are plenty of solder plugs and terminals with self contained flux and solder but a torch is still needed.
Two weeks ago the car started having the problem again. Second time we went to start the car with jumpers I noticed some blackish smoke residue on the wire just outside the crimped area to the battery terminal. Smokey residue made me think sparking within the crimped area under high amperage. We drove the car another week with the problem and each time we got the car to start by several tugs back and forth on the harness wire going into the battery terminal crimp. Car started every time after doing this.
I let myself be fooled because lights and other electrical was working when the car would not start. Without giving higher amperage proper consideration and after reading about problems after motor mounts breaking I got sidetracked into believing the problem was mainly due to broken ground points near the engine / transmission.
Now I have done what I mentioned earlier, planned on doing and failed to follow through, i installed a new battery terminal splice kit. Car started right up after putting it in.
I don;t know if we are in the salt belt or not. We live in Tampa, Fl and I would suspect there is a fair amount of salt residue all over the state considering proximity to the ocean. You mentioned our trouble may be caused by corrosion and I think you are right. If we had damaged ground points caused by broken motor mounts I am not certain but I know now the battery terminal HAD TO BE REPLACED.
I bet the car will never fail to start as it has been prior to putting the splice kit in place. Easy job took about 20 minutes to complete, took more time to gather and put away the tools and cleaners than make the repair.
Note: Don;t forget to use some OFF Mosquito repellent if working late in the evening where the critters thrive. I did and became the main course for a hardy meal.
THIS I EXPECT TO BE THE END OF THIS LINGERING INTERMITTENT STARTING PROBLEM.
Thanks top all who commented, your help is appreciated.
Monty
[quote=”WyrTwister” post=187563]So , the new ground wire did not solve the starting problem ?
I would , if necessary , run a supplemental ground cable from the battery to , the body , chassis , engine & transmission , & make sure the battery cable clamps & terminals were clean and shiny . Then apply grease to same to prevent corrosion .
But , I am an electrician so running supplemental grounds would be no bid deal . We have crimping tooling to crimp the ring connectors to cable & heat shrink for insulation purposes .
As far as the relays are concerned , a A/C relay for a Chevy is not very $$$ & it is used in other positions at the fuse box . I would buy a new one .
Get a book with a wiring diagram .
Do you live in the salt belt ? Corrosion is the enemy .
Does the starter gave a separate solenoid or is mounted on / part of the starter internals ? Is the starter solenoid getting 12VDC when the ignition is turned to start ?
I might even run a supplemental ground cable to the starter . Is the starter mounted directly to the engine or to the transmission / bell housing ?
God bless
WyrPS I am a little over a year younger than you & still tinker with the car , some . :-)[/quote]
WHAT I DECIDED TO DO AND WHY.
A little time has passed and we have only had this problem come back one more time. The car started immediately after running a single cable from battery negative to ENGINE ground. Before it would only start running this cable to TRANSMISSION GROUND. This is meaningful I think.
I noticed the single click we had heard in the past was now a series of multiple clicks if the key was left in start position, indicating to me grounding had improved some.
Those things in mind I researched wire harness ground locations and found 2 or 3 behind the splash guard, drivers side, and intend to remove, clean and re-seat those connections in the future. I also noticed the factory crimp for the battery negative had some corrosion showing on the outside of the multi wire bundle. This I believe needs to be replaced.
After I find a suitable replacement connector (hoping to locate an exothermic one) I will put it on the car. Ohterwise I will need to get my soldering tools outside, remove the battery to a safe place and solder a new connector at wire harness to battery location. I may also re-do the other connectors behind the wheel splash guard. THIS SHOULD SOLVE THE PROBLEM ONCE AND FOR ALL.
Meanwhile, since this is only happening more rarely I am content with hooking up a single battery ground to engine JUMPER cable to start the car when it fails. At least I feel at this point I fully understand this problem and know how to make the FINAL REPAIR that will get this intermittent starting issue out of my hair.
BTW – Your suggestions were excellent. I do have factory maintenance service manuals with wiring diagrams.that I used to locate the ground points. I hate to run a bunch of extra ground wires and think re-terminating and cleaning present wiring will solve everything. I also have a degree in Electronics Engineering Technology, not an electrician but there is no doubt it sure helps. If I can not locate an exothermic battery connector for this car someone should invent one, I bet they could make a fair amount of bucks off such a cable connection, it is like soldering a connection with any soldering tools. Everything is self contained in the connector. (I AM IN LOVE WITH THE EASY WAY) LOL 👿
[quote=”WyrTwister” post=187569]Sounds like you are going to have to pay the full price for parts or go to a salvage yard and take your chances .
I have replaced individual fan motors on a Chevy , but do not know about a Chrysler ?
God bless
Wyr[/quote]I wanted to save money. Each fan motor and blades are available from Mo-par and after market. I could have repaired one fan for about $45.00 with discounts for parts, the fan was costing $75.00 retail in store.
Instead I went with Chrysler’s recommendation written in their factory service repair manuals, I replaced the entire radiator fan assembly for a cost of $180.00, after discounts about $120.00. I saved so much I had the left side CV Axed also replaced since it had started to make a nearly non noticed click when backing and turning left. That cost only a few more bucks, around $50.00.
Watch your discounts, buy online, if buying from an auto parts store locally use their online discounts and check other discounts available like I found with Bank of America for Advanced Auto Parts. The online discount was 25% and my bank added another 15% making about a 38 or so % discount off retail.
We are noiseless in the front end and our A/C is cooling better at idle than has in the last 6 years. Driving temps are staying at the low end of the range Chrysler recommends for normal in town driving.
[quote=”cap269″ post=187003][quote=”n9zn-extra” post=187002]instead I am thinking running a battery cable 4GA from negative battery to a mounting bracket on the transmission, then I should have plenty of ground to tranny and engine.[/quote]
My brother has an 05 Pacifica and had this symptom. I replaced the battery ground cable with a #4 cable and that solved his problem. For around $10 it can’t hurt, and the factory cable is undersized IMHO. Try it and see. I’d like to hear back if this solved yours as well.[/quote]cap269.
The extra ground wire was installed on May,1st, 2017.
Unfortunately the addition of a #4 ground wire wire has not resolved our problem.Since adding to this topic after the new ground was put in place the vehicle also had a fan separate from the motor cooling the radiator. I have a separate thread on that issue.
Today my wife drove to a job close to the house without the car overheating. I had noticed a blown fuse for the radiator fans and removed it prior to his happening. I also swapped the fuse box relays for the radiator fan and the starter, these same two relays had been swapped prior to the fan breaking hoping it may be the source of the starting issue. Since the starter fuse box relay is back in it’s original location I wonder if it may turn out to have a problem. I will check the relay better one the car is towed back to our residence and I can put a meter on the relay.
Unless I hear from someone with new remedies for repairing the starting issue I plan ion taking the auto to Leary Technical School in Tampa for both issues we are having. They operate an SAE certified auto mechanics course for adults. This may be my best shot at getting things working properly since the instructor is an ASE Master Mechanic who double checks all the work done by his students. We have had very good results with them before and the best part is the labor is FREE, we only have to purchase requested parts.
I would highly recommend to anyone having an auto issue they can not solve to consider one of the local area technical schools teaching an ASE Certified Mechanics Course as a resource that could help them. Most classes of this type cut huge breaks on labor charges if they charge for labor to begin with.
I do still want more information since I prefer to solve the starting issue on my own, I enjoy working on things I can still accomplish at age 66. Thank you again cap269 for the information shared to date.
Monty (N9ZN-Extra)
Thinking on the same lines of NIGHTFLYR, if all your windows are being affected at the same time you might want to take a look at the master control switch for all windows (on drivers side door). There may be a common ground on the switch assembly that is loose, maybe the all window lockout is engaged. Could be a broken wire or might be corrosion forming in an area common to all windows.
I would say look for things that are common to all the windows if you can go over a bump and suddenly everything (all your windows) start to operate correctly. Things like a loose or corroded fuse, even a loose wire in the fuse box could be culprit. Wish I had an electrical diagram for window control in the Cherokee, it would be easier to point out the common areas. What you are describing is electrical in my opinion.
[quote=”cap269″ post=187018]For the comparatively low cost of a #4 cable, it wouldn’t hurt to just replace them both. Make sure that all connection points are clean and shiny. One thing I’ve noticed over the years in dealing with Chrysler products is that they seem to all have electrical system issues. Improving the electrical grounds never hurts anything.[/quote]
I wish I would have thought to ask the mechanic to clean up the area of cable attachment prior to bolting everything down. As far as I know the cable was simply bolted in place to the same transmission mounting bolt I had been successfully connecting a jumper cable from battery negative establishing additional grounding allowing the car to start. My assumption is the mounting bolt is well suited to electrical conductivity because the jumper grounding was successful.
After 2 additional instances of our car not starting followed by the car immediately starting after using a jumper cable to ground battery negative to a transmission mounting bolt I am now more convinced than ever this is the fix for our vehicle. It is so difficult with an intermittent electrical problem to feel anything is the answer certain until months pass without another failure. That being said I am glad I waited A few days to locate a reasonably priced mechanic to install the new ground cable. The cable was installed on Monday May 1st, 2017 by a local mechanic for $25.00, a price I considered fair. I could have done this myself except I felt my tools were not strong enough to break loose the transmission bolt and I had some uncertainty the transmission would not shift slightly out of alignment with the bolt if I tried this hookup myself.
I have set a new appointment in my computers Outlook calendar which will alert me to come back and provide a follow up after a few months have passed. Time I believe necessary to prove with certainty the intermittent failure to start issue has been resolved by adding additional grounding. NOTE: I have not had a recurrence of the MIL light illuminating with the small vacuum leak codes again but only more time will give me confidence this helped the MIL light return to normal.
I would check two things. The CV Axel can create noise as the joint travels around. You should also take a look at the control arms, if the bushings on the arms are bad you will hear a metal bang like noise similar to someone hitting the cast iron arm with a hammer.
I have not looked at this vehicle but my guess, if the noise is a loud bang when decelerating, accelerating or turning it most likely is the control arm. If it is a slightly softer noise check the CV Axel (the noise is hard to describe in writing).
You can find parts online for about 1/3 the cost of a local parts store. Some places may offer control arms for both sides with extra fittings if you want to do everything while you have the front end apart.
BE SURE TO DO A WHEEL ALIGNMENT after working on your front end.
You have given me some REAL HOPE that this will take care of two things both of which happened around the time we had a motor mount replaced. Maybe 3 things.
With a little luck it will resolve the MIL light that comes on randomly re: small vacuum leak too. I had the car smoke tested and nothing was found. If something was visible I am pretty sure a class of 15 people taking an SAE repair course would have had at least one of them notice the smoke venting.
Those 3 things Intermittent starting, intermittent hard shift and intermittent small vacuum leak MIL light are the only known things wrong with the vehicle.
In the diagram above G101 (not noted) is the Negative battery connection. G102 appears to be the primary engine and transmission ground location opposite end of the primary engine ground wire traveling through the wire harness from location G101.
If I am right about this wire, and it is beginning to fail, getting it fixed now will also resolve a number of other future yet pending issues. As you suggested with your brothers vehicle.
Can’t thank you enough CAP269 for letting me know what you found on your brother car. 🙂
My brother has an 05 Pacifica and had this symptom. I replaced the battery ground cable with a #4 cable and that solved his problem. For around $10 it can’t hurt, and the factory cable is undersized IMHO. Try it and see. I’d like to hear back if this solved yours as well.
Thank you CAP269!
I can assure you I will get back to you. What I am not certain of, since this has been an intermittent problem at times taking a few weeks before another failure, is that the car starting is any kind of good indicator of the fix taking care of the intermittent failure. After a few months without a recurrence I would feel satisfied the extra ground fixed this problem.
None the less I will keep you informed and I hope I remember to come back in a few months with a report as well. I set a reminder in Outlook to come back after about 3 months, if that works right I will remember to give you a real update after some time has passed. 🙂
Any thoughts on the intermittent hard up and down shift at low speeds with mild acceleration, do you think it may be related to poor engine / tranny ground? Was G102 (in diagram above) the wire your brother had trouble with or did you have a chance to look at the wires?
[quote=”stiv625″ post=133247]
Here are the symptoms you are probably experiencing with a PCI Bus issue:The A/C blows normal volume but the air is not cold, because the compressor will not engage, even with the ‘snowflake’ or ‘A/C’ button pressed.
The instrument cluster backlighting is ON at all times (when the key is on), even with the headlamps OFF.
Power windows are inoperative.
The overhead console displays ‘lines’ instead of information.
The gauges are not reading correctly.
These symptoms may come and go. Often PCI bus problems are intermittent.
“[/quote]None of these probelms are present to my knowledge. I have speciffically ask about the above items since I have not been driving the car when it had the problem revealing itself. As for the A/C, it has been disconnected we think it needs freon, that will wait until we see it the car is otherwise repairable. Do you think the PCI Bus wireing could still be the problem and should we look at the same things you suggested or only part of them since everything else is working?
As I write this I thought maybe the A/C is ok but showing the symptom you described. In this case that would be a good thing since the A/C problems may go away after finding the PCI Bus troubles. I’ve got my fingers crossed on this one. I bet the A/C never had gauges on it and everyone assumed it was low on freon. That’s my next question for my daughter.
EDIT: I like you have seen this write up in several places online. I wish I knew who originally wrote and posted the info. They might be able to guide me a bit farther since most of the symptoms do not exist on the Jeep being worked on. The hard shaking of the vehicle, running OK when engine is cool, and recent locking up of the shift lever all seem to point to the transmission not working correctly. Maybe it is in the area of the TCM or between it and the tyranny. or TCM and PCM. I will know more after Sunday of this week when I have time to look.
I hope not, but we may be at a point of no return with this Jeep. Unfortunately after all the money spent on repairs, with no relief from the problem, my daughter has had to drive the Jeep a few times knowing it is not ready to drive. This was unavoidable for her as the families other car also is having trouble.
Tonight there was a smell like something getting hot or burning and the shaking rough ride returned. When the Jeep was pulled off the road, trying to remove the key from the ignition, the gear shift would not move. After a few minutes the shifter it eventually allowed removal of the key. Now it has been towed to home with a frustrated owner who seems ready to throw the car away for junk for a few bucks to anyone who will tow it.
Too bad, this vehicle was in really nice condition inside and out, it even drove nicely until the problem started again. With it shutting down and now maybe a trashed transmisson to boot I wonder how much she can get for scrap steel or a salvedge yard parts car? The motor seems to be solid with plenty of power to spare based on the last time I drove it a few days ago.
If I thought there was a chance of saving this Jeep I would quickly chance $100.00 for it. Even at my retirement age I think I could eventually electrically diagnose the P1698 MIL code and repair that. Fixing a damaged transmission is another thing, I could not take that on without help from a couple of strong boys
I will return if she changes her mind about getting rid of the Jeep and can prove the transmission is not damaged. Only waiting for the Jeep to cool and taking a short drive will give us an idea if it is saveable or tell us if it is really junk ready.
Sorry to see this outcome, too bad the only option my daughter had was to drive the Jeep anyway potentially causing more damage.
MAYBE I POSTED TOO SOON! I just recevied a call, my daughters husband went to get the car instead of having it towed a short distance home. It had cooled down by the time he arrived to drive it and drove perfectly the rest of the way to their house. Maybe there is still hope for this Jeep with a hopefully small electrical short between or around the TCM / PCM and buss message wireing.
stiv625, spoke to my daughter and she advised all of the repairs have been chasing the same problem, CAR STALLING ON ROAD.
Thank you for all the info, I am extremly tired now but wll get back to you after a little rest. We may be on the right track with this. 🙂
Monty
If you have a link I know I will find them. Otherwise wish me luck BUT THANK YOU VER, VERY MUCH! 🙂
Monty
After so many problems when buying a normally registered vehicle no one knows what any used vehicles history is.
There seems to be an overwhelming number of owners ready to unload a used vehicle but not ready to disclose anything about it that is not visually or noticeably defective. Even cars with serious safety issues, dying on the insterstate, loose engine or transmission, improperly installed ball joints and hidden stearing problems get sold every day across America. Not only sold but those cars have clean titles and no one mentions there are safety issues or anything else that you will not quickly discover yourself.
In fact this was the reasoning behind getting a used vehicle checked out by a reputable mechanic prior to commiting to purchase. Leyt the old saying “BUYER BEWARE” guide you. Personally I follow a modified saying “BUYER BEWARE, VERY AWARE OF WHAT MIGHT BE”.
You may be right, near age 65 we tend to get forgetful LOL. I will almost certainly remember where as soon as I no longer have a need for a TSB. Seems to be the way it works these days. 🙂
I know I used to have a place online, thought it was here, that provided a link to FREE TSB’s and RECALLS for any make or modle of automobile.
Here’s a thought, if you happen to know of one yourself you can message me if you don’t want it in the forum. Meanwhile I will keep trying to remember where I found the TSB’s I have printed.