Forum Replies Created
-
Replies
-
[quote=”MBDiagMan” post=173794]I have not read the entire thread so this might have already been discussed. Have you confirmed that the Control Area Network is sound? You can do this with a brand specific scanner that will confirm module communications or at the DCL with an ohmmeter.[/quote]
Thanks for your post, Sgt.! The Staff Sgt. in this house knows old car engines well, but not a lot about any of the new electronic / computer type stuff, so it’s really frustrating! So have not done or confirmed what you asked about 🙂
[quote=”Rob781″ post=172705]hope this help…. pass 1
willl not allow me to upload mult pic[/quote]a PS: to my just posted reply to you…..previously have ruled out that “wet PCM” problem — this particular vehicle was one from after Ford corrected the problem, and out PCM is located in a different spot
[quote=”ArtTheConfusedGuy” post=167745]Gotta start at the start, have you checked your fuses. If the shop couldn’t pull codes I would wholeheartedly assume the ecu isn’t powering on. That would explain the engine dying out of nowhere
Quick update….the PCM (replaced) does have power now, but still NO CRANK, NO START. Tech now tested the fuse box. There was “power to the block that plugs into the fuse box, but no power at one of the fuses” (the one that goes to the starting system).
He said that box is obsolete, but even if I could get a used one, & replace it:
1) does it make sense that this could have been my original problem (when the van died on the road with no warning)?
2) Is there a way to know for sure that the problem IS the fuse box & that replacement will fix this vehicle?[quote=”MBDiagMan” post=172715]I am not familiar with the Ford line. How old is this car?[/quote]
2005 Ford Freestar — there have been numerous developments, though, and actually the PCM now probably won’t give out codes because it’s now a replacement PCM, and might need to run through and cycle everything– except that it won’t crank or start so I can’t run/drive the car to get it to cycle.
[quote=”Rob781″ post=172707]hope this help…. pass 3
willl not allow me to upload mult pic[/quote]Thank you so much for all the photos you posted for me–I didn’t get notice for some reason that they were there, so I will now share with my husband. In the meantime…..
I actually came on the site just now to post an update & question for you….maybe you’ll know bestif this fits with your previous ideas:
The Tech that had me replace the PCM but after there was still NO CRANK, NO START, now tested the fuse box. There was “power to the block that plugs into the fuse box, but no power at one of the fuses” (the one that goes to the starting system).
He said that box is obsolete, but even if I could get a used one, & replace it:
1) does it make sense that this could have been my original problem and only problem (when the van died on the road with no warning)?
2) Is there a way to know for SURE that the problem IS the fuse box & that replacement will fix this vehicle? I am beyond out of money to spend on this vehicle…[quote=”Rob781″ post=172596]ok thanks so now I know that it is not sending signal to the starter… what is the mfg/year/model/sub model/ 8th of vin maybe I can check some TSB’s and check the wireing diagrams because sometime I can pull them up myself… I might find something…[/quote]
2005 Ford Freestar SEL VIN# 2FMDA58 2 65BA23589
[quote=”shaun” post=172556]See if this logic works. I think your hubby is getting battery voltage off the main wire to the starter. And he is simply using a screwdriver or such to jump battery voltage to the solenoid wire and the engine then cranks?[/quote]
Yes, he gets voltage off the main wire to the starter. No screwdriver…..the way he does it is he puts a jumper wire on the solenoid and then touches it to the positive on the battery.
[quote=”Rob781″ post=172552]after that and you think the starter is getting a signal to run… wich it sounds like it might by you saying the lights are dimming when trying to start it… but I would still test the voltage at the starter first…. you will disconnect the battory and remove the starter from the block and connect it back up and run a wire to the block and the starer caseing…. to get a ground wire sometimes starters use the engine for ground some have a dedicated ground so to be sure run a ground cabe to the engine block… make sure the starter will not eat anything or damage anything..if holding it by hand make sure your hand is away from the gears inisde it…. with the starter removed from the engine block and connected…. reconnect the batttory and try turning the key to the start position… you should hear the winding of the starter… a click for the gear coming out basiclly a soft hammer sound and the winding noise of the starter… I would also bring anoth er car battory over and jump start it to your battory just incase your battory is weak now or is bad some how even if it tested good try it with a good battory jumping yours….
if that all works you reconnect the starter back in to the engine and try again… that means you are not getting engough amps to the starter ofr some resonPS when ever you move the starter always disconnect the battory[/quote]
……So therefore, no, the starter is NOT getting a signal to run. The “lights are dimming” is not anything that I have posted, nothing like that happens. And the starter has tested fine, so figuring it must be something else……
[quote=”Rob781″ post=172545][quote=”MarineWife” post=172543]1) When you turn the key, the engine doesn’t turn at all, and there is NO click that you can hear. But you can feel the click in the mini relay in the fuse box.
2) There is NO crank, NO start. The only way you can get the car to crank is to hot wire the starter.
3) The starter has power to it. But unless you hot wire it, it does nothing. The way he knows the starter HAS power to it is with the volt meter, by touching the ground and the hot wire and getting a 12.5v reading.[/quote]
ok what you have to do is connect the multi meter to the post on the starter and test it when the key is out and when the key is in and when you have the key turned to the start position….
what Im looking for is what the voltage drop the starter is getting… and is the system really sending a singal to the starter or are we reading something weird… basiccly Im looking at corrostion in the cables or a bad connection… or a failed relay… in those test and checking if we are testing it correctly[/quote]There is no voltage drop, because when you turn the engine to START, it’s not sending power to the starter.
1) When you turn the key, the engine doesn’t turn at all, and there is NO click that you can hear. But you can feel the click in the mini relay in the fuse box.
2) There is NO crank, NO start. The only way you can get the car to crank is to hot wire the starter.
3) The starter has power to it. But unless you hot wire it, it does nothing. The way he knows the starter HAS power to it is with the volt meter, by touching the ground and the hot wire and getting a 12.5v reading.
[quote=”Rob781″ post=172487][quote=”MarineWife” post=172482][quote=”Rob781″ post=172455]now Im confused she said “This is the same vehicle, and has not cranked or started since the day it died while driving down the road (except for once when a jumper was put on the starter to see if it engaged and then it did crank but not start), so it doesn’t appear to be a starter problem, and have tested and there IS power going to the starter.”
and she also “There is power to the starter, and have put a charger on the battery, and this vehicle has no fuseable links.
As for clicks, there is a click when the key is turned, and the starter is engaging”what my understanding is the power is going to the starter when the key is turned but the starter is not able to turn the engine… when she hot wired the starter on the engine she was able to crank the engine… just to make an understanding you tested the wire that was connected at the starter not at the relay or something else but you tested it directly at the post of the starter??? is that correct[/quote]
Yes, that is correct! And when tested directly at the post the engine turned over (cranked) but would not start. Has not been running since the day it died driving on the road.[/quote]
I have to ask this question what is the voltage at the starter when you turn your key… is it like 12v or are you reading like 2v at the post inputs of the starter… if your getting 12v+ and have the amps going to the starter post on the starter… the starter should turn… car might not start but the engine should crank…
now if you have the key out with the starter(hot wired on) turning they car wouldnt start because the spark plugs are not engaged or it could be some computer sub system too not sending the fire signal to start the car so that might work or might not on your car[/quote]
I asked him and he said without turning the key, the voltage was actually 12.5v, and yes the starter does turn the engine over (cranks) but it does not start. He ran the jumper wire from the terminal and hooked the lighted tester to it, turned the key to start, and there was no voltage reading (no light).
With the key out, he hot-wired the starter, the engine cranked, but didn’t start. He turned the key to “run” , hot wired the starter again to crank, engine cranked, but again, would not start.
[quote=”Rob781″ post=172455]now Im confused she said “This is the same vehicle, and has not cranked or started since the day it died while driving down the road (except for once when a jumper was put on the starter to see if it engaged and then it did crank but not start), so it doesn’t appear to be a starter problem, and have tested and there IS power going to the starter.”
and she also “There is power to the starter, and have put a charger on the battery, and this vehicle has no fuseable links.
As for clicks, there is a click when the key is turned, and the starter is engaging”what my understanding is the power is going to the starter when the key is turned but the starter is not able to turn the engine… when she hot wired the starter on the engine she was able to crank the engine… just to make an understanding you tested the wire that was connected at the starter not at the relay or something else but you tested it directly at the post of the starter??? is that correct[/quote]
Yes, that is correct! And when tested directly at the post the engine turned over (cranked) but would not start. Has not been running since the day it died driving on the road.
[quote=”Nodak81″ post=172448]From what I read the ground for the starter relay is provided via the ECU, and the ECU only provides ground when that range sensor says it’s okay to do so (i.e. the car is either in park or neutral). So there is probably no problem with the wiring to the starter, it’s just that the relay isn’t turning on.
Also would check fuse #41 in the fuse block under the hood. It’s for the PCM and several people have had their Freestar die in the middle of traffic like this and the starter motor seems dead for same reason above, no power to ECU so no power to starter relay.[/quote]
Thanks so much! The transmission range sensor may be a good lead, especially since that “check traction control” warning came on. Will have the Marine do the test you said with changing gears from your last message, and also check that fuse #41 🙂
Well…..he just did the foot on the brake shifting test you described, and unfortunately nothing happened……and he rechecked that fuse #41, and it’s okay 🙁 So does that mean that the transmission range sensor is ok????
[quote=”bsdklle” post=172452]from my reading the starter is functioning correctly and that the engine is turning over but not starting,
the vehicle was running and then just died on you.
and the pcm is showing no codes.what are you reading the codes with? is it reading them correctly and showing that it has no codes. or is it giving a error as it cant read them?
if it is infact reading the pcm and showing no codes the scanner might be able to read live data from the pcm.another thing is how did the vehicle died on the road. did it just cut out or whas it sputtering before it cut out.
there are a few things that would cause a car not to start. the normal no fuel no spark. but also if the pcm cant detect how fast the engine is spinning it wont attempt to start.[/quote]
Engine just cut out, no warning at all & no previous problems on other days.
The code readers that have been used (computer type & others) I believe read “links error”. Thanks for your input.