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http://youtu.be/4cTr7hgyYoU
here is a short video of the stalling issue after start up
this is 1 of 2 videos I will postvideo 2. the engine was stable enough to let me raise the RPMs a bit, then back to idle, and it quit
http://youtu.be/2sTf_gDmD68Okay, I changed the fuel filter today, was going to do it yesterday, but wife issues comes first:) Always:)
Here is the outcome…same symptoms, however the old filter needed changed out. The old filter was dirty, and blackish gas poured out of it.
I thought the GM oil pressure switch was part of the fuel circuit on this car( like it is on most GM vehicles, so I have read) and possibly causing the engine to just shut down because of it being defective(since the pump relay only operates at start up)that was not the case.
I looked at the wiring diagram in the manual I have, and it showed only one Tan/Blk wire for the oil pressure sensor, thus blowing one of my possible causes of this issue
I guess once the pump relay drops out, the PCM takes over supplying the voltage to the pump? my book is vague in lots of troubleshooting areas.
Well,today I have done the Power Balance test, and all cylinders have the same drop in RPMS.
I put the fuel pressure gauge back on the Cavalier, and get 50psi on initial KOEO, and get 48psi while engine is running at idle. When the engine dies, the fuel pressure only drops a few psi, and when I manually cut the ignition off I get 44psi for for a short while like 20 minutes or so. The fuel pressure acts more normally now, but I’m still not ruling out the fuel pump at this point.
Now the other part that I thought was causing this issue was the fuel pump relay, however I think I have ruled that out, by taking the cover off and watching the contacts when Initial KOEO, and when the engine just quits.
I have checked all the grounds per the electrical schematics, and all are clean, tight, and in correct places.
I’m now trying to figure out which direction to go with my troubleshooting…I feel like it’s an electrical issue, and possibly the ICM which is part of the CSI system, however my manual doesn’t give basic testing on this system, or my OTC book is crap.
I do have a cheap code reader with limited LD and will post my PIDs , and maybe someone who is better trained reading these could point me in a direction I need to go, and again thanks for all the help in resolving this issue. I don’t give up easily, and may be getting close to my limit when it comes to troubleshooting this issue.
LD Pids at Idle
Fuel System 2 N/A
Calc Load (%) 22.4
ECT (*C) 84-85
STFT B1 (%) 5.5-7.0
LTFT B1 (%) 0.0
Map (Kpa) 32
Engine RPM 612-625
Veh Speed 0
Spark Advanced (*) 7.0-10.5
IAT (*C) 46
TPS (%) 10.6O2s Loc B1S1_ _ B2s_ _
O2s B1 S1 (V) 0.85-0.840
STFT B1 S1 (%) 6.3-8.6O2s B1 S2 (V) 0.085- 0.720
STFT B1 s2 (%) 99.2thanks for any help interpreting these numbers. I do understand some things but not all
Okay, I changed the fuel filter today, was going to do it yesterday, but wife issues comes first:) Always:)
Here is the outcome…same symptoms, however the old filter needed changed out. The old filter was dirty, and blackish gas poured out of it.
I thought the GM oil pressure switch was part of the fuel circuit on this car( like it is on most GM vehicles, so I have read) and possibly causing the engine to just shut down because of it being defective(since the pump relay only operates at start up)that was not the case.
I looked at the wiring diagram in the manual I have, and it showed only one Tan/Blk wire for the oil pressure sensor, thus blowing one of my possible causes of this issue
I guess once the pump relay drops out, the PCM takes over supplying the voltage to the pump? my book is vague in lots of troubleshooting areas.
Well,today I have done the Power Balance test, and all cylinders have the same drop in RPMS.
I put the fuel pressure gauge back on the Cavalier, and get 50psi on initial KOEO, and get 48psi while engine is running at idle. When the engine dies, the fuel pressure only drops a few psi, and when I manually cut the ignition off I get 44psi for for a short while like 20 minutes or so. The fuel pressure acts more normally now, but I’m still not ruling out the fuel pump at this point.
Now the other part that I thought was causing this issue was the fuel pump relay, however I think I have ruled that out, by taking the cover off and watching the contacts when Initial KOEO, and when the engine just quits.
I have checked all the grounds per the electrical schematics, and all are clean, tight, and in correct places.
I’m now trying to figure out which direction to go with my troubleshooting…I feel like it’s an electrical issue, and possibly the ICM which is part of the CSI system, however my manual doesn’t give basic testing on this system, or my OTC book is crap.
I do have a cheap code reader with limited LD and will post my PIDs , and maybe someone who is better trained reading these could point me in a direction I need to go, and again thanks for all the help in resolving this issue. I don’t give up easily, and may be getting close to my limit when it comes to troubleshooting this issue.
LD Pids at Idle
Fuel System 2 N/A
Calc Load (%) 22.4
ECT (*C) 84-85
STFT B1 (%) 5.5-7.0
LTFT B1 (%) 0.0
Map (Kpa) 32
Engine RPM 612-625
Veh Speed 0
Spark Advanced (*) 7.0-10.5
IAT (*C) 46
TPS (%) 10.6O2s Loc B1S1_ _ B2s_ _
O2s B1 S1 (V) 0.85-0.840
STFT B1 S1 (%) 6.3-8.6O2s B1 S2 (V) 0.085- 0.720
STFT B1 s2 (%) 99.2thanks for any help interpreting these numbers. I do understand some things but not all
[quote=”barneyb” post=110519]Hard to say if free or not. The thing is with the VIN you could at least find out what reflashes are available if any, what they are supposed to correct and if any have been done to the vehicle.[/quote]
Barneyb, we’re working on getting that vin number ran through the GM Technical System, what ever that is…and I’ll let you know what I find out, if anything[quote=”barneyb” post=110519]Hard to say if free or not. The thing is with the VIN you could at least find out what reflashes are available if any, what they are supposed to correct and if any have been done to the vehicle.[/quote]
Barneyb, we’re working on getting that vin number ran through the GM Technical System, what ever that is…and I’ll let you know what I find out, if anything[quote=”EricTheCarGuy” post=110748]Let us know if things change after installing the fuel filter, or if you’re able to get a reflash.[/quote]
We’ll do…I got the new WIX fuel filter for the owner, and plan on installing it in the morning, then I will run my test…and report back with results, good or bad
thanks![quote=”EricTheCarGuy” post=110748]Let us know if things change after installing the fuel filter, or if you’re able to get a reflash.[/quote]
We’ll do…I got the new WIX fuel filter for the owner, and plan on installing it in the morning, then I will run my test…and report back with results, good or bad
thanks!Well, I’m tired. I work 12 hours a day and can only do work on vehicles after I get home, and on weekends.
This has been a real head scratchier for me, an I’m sure confusing for others trying to help.
I have troubleshooted to to the point my brain is fried!…I have come to the conclusion that, with the symptoms this car is experiencing, I have tracked the issue down to two items.
I’m not 100% positive on one of these items being the cause of complaint, UNTIL I TEST THEM FIRST:)…cross my fingers and toes that one of these is the culprit….maybe y’all can figure out what I zeroed in on?…. remember I could be wrong in my diagnosis….but I hope not…
Well, I’m tired. I work 12 hours a day and can only do work on vehicles after I get home, and on weekends.
This has been a real head scratchier for me, an I’m sure confusing for others trying to help.
I have troubleshooted to to the point my brain is fried!…I have come to the conclusion that, with the symptoms this car is experiencing, I have tracked the issue down to two items.
I’m not 100% positive on one of these items being the cause of complaint, UNTIL I TEST THEM FIRST:)…cross my fingers and toes that one of these is the culprit….maybe y’all can figure out what I zeroed in on?…. remember I could be wrong in my diagnosis….but I hope not…
[quote=”barneyb” post=110508]This is from the “J Body Organization” and while for manual transmission cars only, from reading around, I find this is happening to automatic transmission cars too. I’d suggest checking with the dealer for any available reflashes.
“Idle Flare or Decel Stall
This condition may affect 2002-04 vehicles with 4 cylinder 2.2L engine
(VIN F – RPO L61) (Chevrolet Malibu, Cavalier, and Classic, Oldsmobile Alero, Pontiac Grand Am and Sunfire).
Some owners may comment about an engine idle flare when the clutch is depressed. Also, some owners may comment about a low speed engine decel stall when coming to a stop.
The flare is caused by the vehicle entering stall-saver mode when the clutch is depressed. The low speed engine decel stall is produced by an interaction between the engine control software and the IAC motor.
Reprogram the PCM with the latest calibration available. The new calibration was released beginning with TIS satellite data update version 6.0 for 2004 available June 2004. As always make sure your Tech 2 is updated with the latest software version.”http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=11&i=99416&t=99225#99416%5B/quote%5D
thanks barneyb! for your input and research. I will call my buddy who owns a Chevrolet Dealership in barnesville, and ask him if that is specific to a month of manufacturer.
sounds like something to check into…thanks again I appreciate it.I did get that filter from the owner last night. I plan on installing that on Saturday
[quote=”barneyb” post=110508]This is from the “J Body Organization” and while for manual transmission cars only, from reading around, I find this is happening to automatic transmission cars too. I’d suggest checking with the dealer for any available reflashes.
“Idle Flare or Decel Stall
This condition may affect 2002-04 vehicles with 4 cylinder 2.2L engine
(VIN F – RPO L61) (Chevrolet Malibu, Cavalier, and Classic, Oldsmobile Alero, Pontiac Grand Am and Sunfire).
Some owners may comment about an engine idle flare when the clutch is depressed. Also, some owners may comment about a low speed engine decel stall when coming to a stop.
The flare is caused by the vehicle entering stall-saver mode when the clutch is depressed. The low speed engine decel stall is produced by an interaction between the engine control software and the IAC motor.
Reprogram the PCM with the latest calibration available. The new calibration was released beginning with TIS satellite data update version 6.0 for 2004 available June 2004. As always make sure your Tech 2 is updated with the latest software version.”http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=11&i=99416&t=99225#99416%5B/quote%5D
thanks barneyb! for your input and research. I will call my buddy who owns a Chevrolet Dealership in barnesville, and ask him if that is specific to a month of manufacturer.
sounds like something to check into…thanks again I appreciate it.I did get that filter from the owner last night. I plan on installing that on Saturday
[quote=”EricTheCarGuy” post=110469][quote=”lovetowrenchit” post=110437]Maybe EricTheCarGuy
Can make a video of how to test this type of ignition system,using basic tools, and upload it in a couple of days, so if I don’t have a fuel issue, I can go straight to that video lolWhat you think Eric?[/quote]
Not likely. I’d need the same vehicle in and time to shoot the video. That said, I’ve also got videos already planned out for the rest of the year. So to answer your question, not likely anytime soon.
I still think it’s a good idea to check the fuel filter if you haven’t already.[/quote]
Shoot! , hope ya know i was just messing with ya…Thanks for the reply. I appreciate it.
I have asked the owner to pick up a quality fuel filter, and any special tool that maybe required to remove the connectionsI’ll post my results when filter is replaced
[quote=”EricTheCarGuy” post=110469][quote=”lovetowrenchit” post=110437]Maybe EricTheCarGuy
Can make a video of how to test this type of ignition system,using basic tools, and upload it in a couple of days, so if I don’t have a fuel issue, I can go straight to that video lolWhat you think Eric?[/quote]
Not likely. I’d need the same vehicle in and time to shoot the video. That said, I’ve also got videos already planned out for the rest of the year. So to answer your question, not likely anytime soon.
I still think it’s a good idea to check the fuel filter if you haven’t already.[/quote]
Shoot! , hope ya know i was just messing with ya…Thanks for the reply. I appreciate it.
I have asked the owner to pick up a quality fuel filter, and any special tool that maybe required to remove the connectionsI’ll post my results when filter is replaced
Maybe EricTheCarGuy
Can make a video of how to test this type of ignition system,using basic tools, and upload it in a couple of days, so if I don’t have a fuel issue, I can go straight to that video lolWhat you think Eric?