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Thanks everyone for reply:
Just an update here:
I plan on performing the test you mentioned:
1 – (I CAN DO)exhaust restriction – unbolt exhaust at collector and let it leak out from there(remove gasket)
2 – (DON’T HAVE AIR) Leak Down test
3 – (I CAN DO ) Use infrared temp gun un EACH EXHAUST PORT(on head) and ON HEADER TUBE
I’ll report back with my finding AS soon as I can, thanks.
Thanks everyone for reply:
Just an update here:
I plan on performing the test you mentioned:
1 – (I CAN DO)exhaust restriction – unbolt exhaust at collector and let it leak out from there(remove gasket)
2 – (DON’T HAVE AIR) Leak Down test
3 – (I CAN DO ) Use infrared temp gun un EACH EXHAUST PORT(on head) and ON HEADER TUBE
I’ll report back with my finding AS soon as I can, thanks.
Hi,
thank you everyone for reading my post. thank you.
The one part that is difficult I have no base line data, I was in my early 20’s and very green with cars, I never touched the timing or did compression tests or any of those things. I never dyno’d it or raced in quarter mile when it ran right. Doh. I was too “this car is out of league, let other people work on it”
Eric, the carb that was on car when bought, still on there, performed beautifully and all things being equal I ensured to only try one thing at a time and never change 5 things at once. Using that method and believing in your advise to try and diagnosis bad part instead of throwing parts at it. I keep looking at what could of broke.
I did live with a roommate way back then that could of done something to my car like put something in my exhaust all the way back into the muffler? Unless one of the mufflers actually broke inside. If you look at exhaust it has the old school late 80’s cross pipe? Sorry don’t know the name.
I would like to perform the exhaust test and sounds like I need to drill a hole in my exhaust behind the muffler and test with a fuel pressure gauge? Is that right? All you tube videos assume the person owns a new car with o2 sensor!
I could unbolt the collector and try driving it but would there be enough space for exhaust to go out and cause no back pressure? It’s much easier to remove exhaust collector gasket!!!
I don’t believe it’s a tranny problem, when it was rebuilt by a shop well after I owned the car for a decade, repairs were hard when in college, which means it only had 10k on it, all bands looked good, I replaced the torque converter anyway with a new one from a real good Pontiac source.
The tranny shifts fine WOT from a stop light. It downshifts perfect driving around too. Has transgo shift kit and nothing major for 2nd gear rubber or anything. I think it’s fuel delivery related or as the other person said muffler(s) must be plugged.
I’ve attached the dyno sheet showing results after it was rebuilt praying he torque would come back. In my opinion the torque is not a flat curve which is what I think I had before. Who knows when you don’t have real data, right? I did include another persons dyno sheet which shows what I believe to be a normal engine power production.
I’ve included some videos:
Fuel pressure test at idle at carb(filter and no filter tested, no difference)
Vacuum gauge on engine and revving engine too:
Base idle with vac gauge no revving engine:
Picture of inside vac gauge which needle doesn’t bounce around a lot.
Hi,
thank you everyone for reading my post. thank you.
The one part that is difficult I have no base line data, I was in my early 20’s and very green with cars, I never touched the timing or did compression tests or any of those things. I never dyno’d it or raced in quarter mile when it ran right. Doh. I was too “this car is out of league, let other people work on it”
Eric, the carb that was on car when bought, still on there, performed beautifully and all things being equal I ensured to only try one thing at a time and never change 5 things at once. Using that method and believing in your advise to try and diagnosis bad part instead of throwing parts at it. I keep looking at what could of broke.
I did live with a roommate way back then that could of done something to my car like put something in my exhaust all the way back into the muffler? Unless one of the mufflers actually broke inside. If you look at exhaust it has the old school late 80’s cross pipe? Sorry don’t know the name.
I would like to perform the exhaust test and sounds like I need to drill a hole in my exhaust behind the muffler and test with a fuel pressure gauge? Is that right? All you tube videos assume the person owns a new car with o2 sensor!
I could unbolt the collector and try driving it but would there be enough space for exhaust to go out and cause no back pressure? It’s much easier to remove exhaust collector gasket!!!
I don’t believe it’s a tranny problem, when it was rebuilt by a shop well after I owned the car for a decade, repairs were hard when in college, which means it only had 10k on it, all bands looked good, I replaced the torque converter anyway with a new one from a real good Pontiac source.
The tranny shifts fine WOT from a stop light. It downshifts perfect driving around too. Has transgo shift kit and nothing major for 2nd gear rubber or anything. I think it’s fuel delivery related or as the other person said muffler(s) must be plugged.
I’ve attached the dyno sheet showing results after it was rebuilt praying he torque would come back. In my opinion the torque is not a flat curve which is what I think I had before. Who knows when you don’t have real data, right? I did include another persons dyno sheet which shows what I believe to be a normal engine power production.
I’ve included some videos:
Fuel pressure test at idle at carb(filter and no filter tested, no difference)
Vacuum gauge on engine and revving engine too:
Base idle with vac gauge no revving engine:
Picture of inside vac gauge which needle doesn’t bounce around a lot.
Just an update, they said there appeared to be water in the transmission. Recently I had taken a high pressure wash to under my truck several days prior to clean everything up. I’ve read there is a vent tube(rubber) about one inches facing up that allow the transmission to vent and equal to atmospheric pressure? Perhaps water went down in there? Or maybe dip stick wasn’t pressed all the way down and water got in. Lastly it could of been radiator section of transmission cooler that leaked over into it. I don’t know level of water found – the shop installed a separate tranny cooler in front of rad and called it a day.
The transmission works flawlessly now, no shutter, at idle it is smoother too. Out of all internet searches regarding shutter not once did anyone mention a grinding noise before or after lockup. I chalk that up to be the tcc cluth plate having little to new fluid in there or some mechanical problem.
I’ll never know if the flush would of done it or not but at least with all the diving I have coming up on the highway I will know if it will die sooner than later.
thanks everyone.
Just an update, they said there appeared to be water in the transmission. Recently I had taken a high pressure wash to under my truck several days prior to clean everything up. I’ve read there is a vent tube(rubber) about one inches facing up that allow the transmission to vent and equal to atmospheric pressure? Perhaps water went down in there? Or maybe dip stick wasn’t pressed all the way down and water got in. Lastly it could of been radiator section of transmission cooler that leaked over into it. I don’t know level of water found – the shop installed a separate tranny cooler in front of rad and called it a day.
The transmission works flawlessly now, no shutter, at idle it is smoother too. Out of all internet searches regarding shutter not once did anyone mention a grinding noise before or after lockup. I chalk that up to be the tcc cluth plate having little to new fluid in there or some mechanical problem.
I’ll never know if the flush would of done it or not but at least with all the diving I have coming up on the highway I will know if it will die sooner than later.
thanks everyone.
Eric,
Thanks for reply. Well the shop I choose rebuild price was reasonable and my neighbor used them just recently for full rebuild. They install a replacement converter that has come from a converter company that obviously rebuilds or reconditions them. So not a new one. I asked about upgrades and he said they install whatever was recommended for that transmission. They didn’t take it for a test drive because my issue they said was either torque converter or lock up clutch circuit. Something to that effect. So he said use the money you would of spent on guessing with a flush and troubleshooting it to just rebuild it.
Of course the standard pull the dipstick and smell it occurred. The truck was kinda worse at all speeds now with a shaking on the way there. I’m sure it’s just a converter but based on the labor for new converter, the fact others told me “while it is out rebuild it” I felt for the extra $700 or so to just get it done. It’s just bad luck a converter went.
Would love to be there when they do this work all day but doubt they’d let that happen.
Guess we’ll see!
Eric,
Thanks for reply. Well the shop I choose rebuild price was reasonable and my neighbor used them just recently for full rebuild. They install a replacement converter that has come from a converter company that obviously rebuilds or reconditions them. So not a new one. I asked about upgrades and he said they install whatever was recommended for that transmission. They didn’t take it for a test drive because my issue they said was either torque converter or lock up clutch circuit. Something to that effect. So he said use the money you would of spent on guessing with a flush and troubleshooting it to just rebuild it.
Of course the standard pull the dipstick and smell it occurred. The truck was kinda worse at all speeds now with a shaking on the way there. I’m sure it’s just a converter but based on the labor for new converter, the fact others told me “while it is out rebuild it” I felt for the extra $700 or so to just get it done. It’s just bad luck a converter went.
Would love to be there when they do this work all day but doubt they’d let that happen.
Guess we’ll see!
Hi
Thanks for detailed response!
Is there any other ways of determining if torque converter is failing? Slippage values, any other tests?
This thread here shows a person who installed the ebay kit and it solved it so maybe he just got lucky.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2205970
If you only have time to read a short clip of the above post a commenter wrote this inside it:
Yep, there is a TSB for code P1870. It’s due to wear in the valve body bore around the TCC PWM valve. In stock form, the steel spool valve rides in the Aluminum bore in the valve body. After a few years of cycling, the bore wears (obviously, being the softer of the two metals). This contributes to less than full apply pressure being commanded of the actual TCC valve, and subsequent tq. convert clutch shudder, falling out of lockup, etc. and the accompanying tripping of the MIL for P1870. Been there done that. A quick fix for this is to lock the PWM valve into full pressure position (via inserting a spring in the bore), and getting on/off TCC engagement as in the pre-electronic 4L60E (the 700R4s used an on/off strategy until 93 when they became the 4L60E). Sonnax recommends against this practice, stating that the TC clutch assy. is not designed to take full non-PWM TCC apply pressure at all times under all conditions. Admittedly, this elimination of the PWM valve stroke is a common mod in shift kits so as to get a firmer apply and less TCC heat. I myself have this in my truck, but I have begun to wonder if Sonnax’s warning about this is not somehow relevant to my repeatedly cracking flex plates. So, I’m personally questioning the advisability of locking out the PWM valve to full apply pressure on a daily driver. But I digress….
GM’s reman transmissions address the PWM valve bore wear by reaming the bore and installing a larger valve. Sonnax has a much better solution. They have you ream the bore and install a steel sleeve along with a new hard-anodized valve. I have the Sonnax setup in mine since my problems with P1870 popped up years ago.
At the end of the day the “grind” noise may be what CLEARLY sets it aside and makes it screwed, where as these people mentioned above only had a shutter.
Any thoughts?
Any other tests ?
Hi
Thanks for detailed response!
Is there any other ways of determining if torque converter is failing? Slippage values, any other tests?
This thread here shows a person who installed the ebay kit and it solved it so maybe he just got lucky.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2205970
If you only have time to read a short clip of the above post a commenter wrote this inside it:
Yep, there is a TSB for code P1870. It’s due to wear in the valve body bore around the TCC PWM valve. In stock form, the steel spool valve rides in the Aluminum bore in the valve body. After a few years of cycling, the bore wears (obviously, being the softer of the two metals). This contributes to less than full apply pressure being commanded of the actual TCC valve, and subsequent tq. convert clutch shudder, falling out of lockup, etc. and the accompanying tripping of the MIL for P1870. Been there done that. A quick fix for this is to lock the PWM valve into full pressure position (via inserting a spring in the bore), and getting on/off TCC engagement as in the pre-electronic 4L60E (the 700R4s used an on/off strategy until 93 when they became the 4L60E). Sonnax recommends against this practice, stating that the TC clutch assy. is not designed to take full non-PWM TCC apply pressure at all times under all conditions. Admittedly, this elimination of the PWM valve stroke is a common mod in shift kits so as to get a firmer apply and less TCC heat. I myself have this in my truck, but I have begun to wonder if Sonnax’s warning about this is not somehow relevant to my repeatedly cracking flex plates. So, I’m personally questioning the advisability of locking out the PWM valve to full apply pressure on a daily driver. But I digress….
GM’s reman transmissions address the PWM valve bore wear by reaming the bore and installing a larger valve. Sonnax has a much better solution. They have you ream the bore and install a steel sleeve along with a new hard-anodized valve. I have the Sonnax setup in mine since my problems with P1870 popped up years ago.
At the end of the day the “grind” noise may be what CLEARLY sets it aside and makes it screwed, where as these people mentioned above only had a shutter.
Any thoughts?
Any other tests ?
