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The patent is exactly about what Bosch seems to claims. Reference air is supplied to the oxygen sensor through an extended passage where the end likely isn’t subject to water infiltration. In this case the extended passage is a stranded wire.
The 2nd to last paragraph says this regarding the extended passage.
In brief, any passage can be used, so long as the passage can introduce the air as the reference gas from the desired location having no fear of water splashing in a vehicle to the housing compartment 25 sealed off from the surrounding atmosphere. However, in that case, the introduction of the reference gas through an extended passage in the form of an electrical conductor of core-wires as 23 is more advantageous in reduction of the number of the necessary parts than that in the form of an independent tube, and an extended passage in the form of only stranded wires of stainless steel or copper is much more advantageous in improving the resistance to vibration.
[quote=”Hanneman” post=82074][quote=”imagine44″ post=82069]Not absolutely sure (haven’t taken one apart) if this patent applies to this Bosch oxygen sensor, but it should at minimum show the principle of what’s being talked about.
Well, I stand corrected regarding the patent examiner. However, they offer several methods for diffusion of air to the reference sensor, especially in the second to last paragraph:
1. Gaps produced by thermal expansion of the housing.
2. Gap in the signal wire, although they mention the introduction a gap or tube between the stranded wire and insulation.
3. Gap in the outer tubing, referenced as “braided armor”, that is sealed/caulked at the sensor housing.
4. Tube or empty wire to carry air to the reference sensor.[/quote]The patent is exactly about what Bosch seems to claims. Reference air is supplied to the oxygen sensor through an extended passage where the end likely isn’t subject to water infiltration. In this case the extended passage is a stranded wire.
The 2nd to last paragraph says this regarding the extended passage.
In brief, any passage can be used, so long as the passage can introduce the air as the reference gas from the desired location having no fear of water splashing in a vehicle to the housing compartment 25 sealed off from the surrounding atmosphere. However, in that case, the introduction of the reference gas through an extended passage in the form of an electrical conductor of core-wires as 23 is more advantageous in reduction of the number of the necessary parts than that in the form of an independent tube, and an extended passage in the form of only stranded wires of stainless steel or copper is much more advantageous in improving the resistance to vibration.
[quote=”Hanneman” post=82074][quote=”imagine44″ post=82069]Not absolutely sure (haven’t taken one apart) if this patent applies to this Bosch oxygen sensor, but it should at minimum show the principle of what’s being talked about.
Well, I stand corrected regarding the patent examiner. However, they offer several methods for diffusion of air to the reference sensor, especially in the second to last paragraph:
1. Gaps produced by thermal expansion of the housing.
2. Gap in the signal wire, although they mention the introduction a gap or tube between the stranded wire and insulation.
3. Gap in the outer tubing, referenced as “braided armor”, that is sealed/caulked at the sensor housing.
4. Tube or empty wire to carry air to the reference sensor.[/quote][quote=”corgllc” post=82072]thanks.
how is the “clearances ” defined?
[/quote]The way I read it, “clearance(s)” would be defined as a gap sufficient to allow water penetration or sufficient to allow a gas to flow.
To prevent water invasion from any clearance formed between the insulating jacket 24 and the guide bush 20, the entire outer surface of the guide bush 20 is mechanically caulked in the direction of arrow marks A, whereby a housing compartment 25 formed at the side of the reference gas contact compartment of the housing 1 is hermetically sealed off from the surrounding atmosphere around the housing 1. The housing compartment 25 communicates with the atmosphere at the desired location in the vehicle through clearances in the electrical conductor 23 of core-wires, and the air as the reference gas can be introduced through the clearances into the housing compartment 25. The air as the reference gas spontaneously flows in or out of the housing compartment 25, through the clearances by aspirating action of the housing 1 due to a temperature change, and expansion and contraction of air in the reference gas contact compartment,
[quote=”corgllc” post=82072]thanks.
how is the “clearances ” defined?
[/quote]The way I read it, “clearance(s)” would be defined as a gap sufficient to allow water penetration or sufficient to allow a gas to flow.
To prevent water invasion from any clearance formed between the insulating jacket 24 and the guide bush 20, the entire outer surface of the guide bush 20 is mechanically caulked in the direction of arrow marks A, whereby a housing compartment 25 formed at the side of the reference gas contact compartment of the housing 1 is hermetically sealed off from the surrounding atmosphere around the housing 1. The housing compartment 25 communicates with the atmosphere at the desired location in the vehicle through clearances in the electrical conductor 23 of core-wires, and the air as the reference gas can be introduced through the clearances into the housing compartment 25. The air as the reference gas spontaneously flows in or out of the housing compartment 25, through the clearances by aspirating action of the housing 1 due to a temperature change, and expansion and contraction of air in the reference gas contact compartment,
[quote=”corgllc” post=82070][quote=”imagine44″ post=82069]Not absolutely sure (haven’t taken one apart) if this patent applies to this Bosch oxygen sensor, but it should at minimum show the principle of what’s being talked about.
do you have an link of the patent?[/quote]
[quote=”corgllc” post=82070][quote=”imagine44″ post=82069]Not absolutely sure (haven’t taken one apart) if this patent applies to this Bosch oxygen sensor, but it should at minimum show the principle of what’s being talked about.
do you have an link of the patent?[/quote]
Hmm.. It would be good to know exactly how much reference air is required for this oxygen sensor, and if that quantity could be passed through the multi-strand wire used on this sensor. Then at least we could be on our way to “Busted, Plausible or Confirmed.” 🙂
[quote=”Raistian77″ post=81303]I would have no idea about industrial applications. If they use it in that environment that would be pretty cool and different. But, in automotive applications I have never seen that type of wire. Computer control systems are my specialty and in that application there would not be enough O2 going down inside a wire for the computer to reference. One of the advantages to the way a O2 sensor is designed is the ease at which outside air can get to the inner thimble, it has to be easy to allow the O2 to self calibrate to varying oxygen concentrations.
I wish I still had the two old ones that were in my scrap bin, but I took them with the rest of the metal 3 weeks ago. I cut one up last year when I went to the HS to teach O2 sensor theory and operation, but that thing is long gone.[/quote]
Hmm.. It would be good to know exactly how much reference air is required for this oxygen sensor, and if that quantity could be passed through the multi-strand wire used on this sensor. Then at least we could be on our way to “Busted, Plausible or Confirmed.” 🙂
[quote=”Raistian77″ post=81303]I would have no idea about industrial applications. If they use it in that environment that would be pretty cool and different. But, in automotive applications I have never seen that type of wire. Computer control systems are my specialty and in that application there would not be enough O2 going down inside a wire for the computer to reference. One of the advantages to the way a O2 sensor is designed is the ease at which outside air can get to the inner thimble, it has to be easy to allow the O2 to self calibrate to varying oxygen concentrations.
I wish I still had the two old ones that were in my scrap bin, but I took them with the rest of the metal 3 weeks ago. I cut one up last year when I went to the HS to teach O2 sensor theory and operation, but that thing is long gone.[/quote]
Certain stranded cable will indeed pass air or fluids down it’s length. It is used in specialty industrial application for cooling among other things. On this point I am sure.
Now.. I think the OP should disassemble the sensor just to see how it’s put together.. B)
[quote=”Raistian77″ post=81237][quote=”imagine44″ post=81177]Oxygen atoms are very small relative to the space between the strands of wire in a cable and this sensor receives it’s oxygen by that route. When you solder the sensor wire, you remove that airspace between the strands of wire, and cause the sensor to work incorrectly.[/quote]
I am sorry, but that is incorrect. O2s do not work that way.
The o2 reference point uses holes drilled in the metal body, it does not rely on oxygen atoms trying to make it through a foot of wire to get to the thimble. And if that were true you would have oxidation of the metal the logic defys itself. The other proof that Boch made a mistake it that their connector (the one that “allows” oxygen to travel down the wires, is sealed with rubber seals, kinda defeates the purpose eh?
So sorry that is an incorrect statement.[/quote]
Certain stranded cable will indeed pass air or fluids down it’s length. It is used in specialty industrial application for cooling among other things. On this point I am sure.
Now.. I think the OP should disassemble the sensor just to see how it’s put together.. B)
[quote=”Raistian77″ post=81237][quote=”imagine44″ post=81177]Oxygen atoms are very small relative to the space between the strands of wire in a cable and this sensor receives it’s oxygen by that route. When you solder the sensor wire, you remove that airspace between the strands of wire, and cause the sensor to work incorrectly.[/quote]
I am sorry, but that is incorrect. O2s do not work that way.
The o2 reference point uses holes drilled in the metal body, it does not rely on oxygen atoms trying to make it through a foot of wire to get to the thimble. And if that were true you would have oxidation of the metal the logic defys itself. The other proof that Boch made a mistake it that their connector (the one that “allows” oxygen to travel down the wires, is sealed with rubber seals, kinda defeates the purpose eh?
So sorry that is an incorrect statement.[/quote]
Oxygen atoms are very small relative to the space between the strands of wire in a cable and this sensor receives it’s oxygen by that route. When you solder the sensor wire, you remove that airspace between the strands of wire, and cause the sensor to work incorrectly.
Oxygen atoms are very small relative to the space between the strands of wire in a cable and this sensor receives it’s oxygen by that route. When you solder the sensor wire, you remove that airspace between the strands of wire, and cause the sensor to work incorrectly.