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Funny story here. Cleaned the fuel injectors and rail out today. That involved taking apart the intake manifold on my car, so it took a little while. One of the gaskets broke, so I bought new ones. One in the pack was different, so I didn’t use it. I took it for a test drive, and smell gasoline. Also my fuel trim is at 20%. So I stop the car, open the hood, and one of the fuel injectors is spraying fuel EVERYWHERE. Extreme leak. I freak out, yell bad words, and turn off the car. Had my father drive over with tools, we took it apart, checked the gasket, and saw that it was broken in two places. Defective gasket. Put in a new one (I bought double what I needed, and one pack had two defective ones), and put it all back together. Sped run the entire thing, finished before nightfall. I consider this a success. We’ll see how it changes anything, but it’s still a success.
Funny story here. Cleaned the fuel injectors and rail out today. That involved taking apart the intake manifold on my car, so it took a little while. One of the gaskets broke, so I bought new ones. One in the pack was different, so I didn’t use it. I took it for a test drive, and smell gasoline. Also my fuel trim is at 20%. So I stop the car, open the hood, and one of the fuel injectors is spraying fuel EVERYWHERE. Extreme leak. I freak out, yell bad words, and turn off the car. Had my father drive over with tools, we took it apart, checked the gasket, and saw that it was broken in two places. Defective gasket. Put in a new one (I bought double what I needed, and one pack had two defective ones), and put it all back together. Sped run the entire thing, finished before nightfall. I consider this a success. We’ll see how it changes anything, but it’s still a success.
I didn’t get to work on the car today. Needy girlfriend and all 😛 damn priorities. I filled up the gas tank, but it was a partial fill up so I don’t know the mileage.
After the fill up, I drove another 2 hours, or 90 miles, on the freeway. But the city driving was tough, up a tall hill and 5 minutes through a complex at 15 MPH with a LOT of speed bumps. The hill is pretty big. Here is what I got in terms of LTFT and STFT:
Ain’t too bad. Mostly stayed +/- 7 on the freeway, switching between positive and negative like it should, jumped around more in the city, staying more positive. Long term is a little messy, I taught it bad after an ECU reset by testing the car at high RPMs and now it associates high RPM with a higher fuel trim, even when the short term did not go that high.
I’ll test the fuel trim at RPM when stationary tomorrow, and clean the injectors and fuel rail. Then I’ll give the car a good scrubbing, it needs a clean. Here it is at a gas station (warning: crappy cell phone pic at night).
I didn’t get to work on the car today. Needy girlfriend and all 😛 damn priorities. I filled up the gas tank, but it was a partial fill up so I don’t know the mileage.
After the fill up, I drove another 2 hours, or 90 miles, on the freeway. But the city driving was tough, up a tall hill and 5 minutes through a complex at 15 MPH with a LOT of speed bumps. The hill is pretty big. Here is what I got in terms of LTFT and STFT:
Ain’t too bad. Mostly stayed +/- 7 on the freeway, switching between positive and negative like it should, jumped around more in the city, staying more positive. Long term is a little messy, I taught it bad after an ECU reset by testing the car at high RPMs and now it associates high RPM with a higher fuel trim, even when the short term did not go that high.
I’ll test the fuel trim at RPM when stationary tomorrow, and clean the injectors and fuel rail. Then I’ll give the car a good scrubbing, it needs a clean. Here it is at a gas station (warning: crappy cell phone pic at night).
I wish I had the manual. But I know that Toyota offers cut down versions of them, so I’ll look for that info. Either way my next drive will be a two hour drive on the freeway, so that’ll teach it real good. 2,200 RPM constant in overdrive is quite calm and really fuel efficient.
I wish I had the manual. But I know that Toyota offers cut down versions of them, so I’ll look for that info. Either way my next drive will be a two hour drive on the freeway, so that’ll teach it real good. 2,200 RPM constant in overdrive is quite calm and really fuel efficient.
[quote=”crypkilla” post=62003]Well it sounds like your car is in good shape.
Fuel trims, short or long, between -10 and +10 on an older motor are normal.
“A normal STFT reading will generally fluctuate between negative and positive single digits 2-3 times per second. Usually they’ll stay around positive or negative 5%, but they may occasionally go up towards 8 or 9% depending on the efficiency of the engine, age of the components, and other factors. A normal long term fuel trim reading will appear to stay the same, giving a long term average of fuel added. It, too, should be close to zero, positive or negative single digits under normal circumstances. It will fluctuate much slower, possibly appearing static.”
http://www.obd-codes.com/faq/fuel-trims.phpSo keep me posted on what else you learn about the car.
In my personal experience taking care of a ton of my own cars i’ve always wanted to clean some part of the fuel system and see improvements. and ive never seen improvement that way. cuz most fuels systems are perfect. i’ve never personally seen a clogged or even dirty injector. i’ve cut open fuel filters and they always look fine. just dont waste too much money throwing parts at problems that arent there. on the other hand i’ve learned a lot that way.
my final thoughts on other people’s fuel economy: a few forum posts is not a conclusive sample size. it may be only a handful of ppl who reported 30+ mpg. also a situation where ppl may be inclined to embellish a bit or not be very specific. I wouldnt tell u that i get over 16 mpg in my explorer. I would tell u i got 16.5 last fill, 17.2 the one before with pure highway driving and 13.7 before that cuz i did a ton of idling and pulled a small trailer at one point. and finally there’s reporting bias. if a hundred ppl read the thread on “what gas mileage are u getting?” the 5 that are at the way upper end are more inclined to post than the dozens like me in the standard, unremarkable range who may not bother posting. so in my experience forum thread ALWAYS make me feel like im getting atrocious gas mileage. but just look at the published numbers. you should average 24-26 with mixed driving, and 20-23 with all city. so u may or may still be getting slightly poor gas mileage.[/quote]
I’ll keep an eye on my long term fuel trim, because I’ve reset the ECU so many times it’s all funkeh.
I promised myself not to spend money unnecessarily, and I’m keeping to it!
My city mileage has been around 19, so a bit on the low side anyway. Hopefully it’ll be better now that fuel trim has calmed down, but time will tell.
Also hot damn, thanks for that email! That’s freaking awesome!
[quote=”crypkilla” post=62003]Well it sounds like your car is in good shape.
Fuel trims, short or long, between -10 and +10 on an older motor are normal.
“A normal STFT reading will generally fluctuate between negative and positive single digits 2-3 times per second. Usually they’ll stay around positive or negative 5%, but they may occasionally go up towards 8 or 9% depending on the efficiency of the engine, age of the components, and other factors. A normal long term fuel trim reading will appear to stay the same, giving a long term average of fuel added. It, too, should be close to zero, positive or negative single digits under normal circumstances. It will fluctuate much slower, possibly appearing static.”
http://www.obd-codes.com/faq/fuel-trims.phpSo keep me posted on what else you learn about the car.
In my personal experience taking care of a ton of my own cars i’ve always wanted to clean some part of the fuel system and see improvements. and ive never seen improvement that way. cuz most fuels systems are perfect. i’ve never personally seen a clogged or even dirty injector. i’ve cut open fuel filters and they always look fine. just dont waste too much money throwing parts at problems that arent there. on the other hand i’ve learned a lot that way.
my final thoughts on other people’s fuel economy: a few forum posts is not a conclusive sample size. it may be only a handful of ppl who reported 30+ mpg. also a situation where ppl may be inclined to embellish a bit or not be very specific. I wouldnt tell u that i get over 16 mpg in my explorer. I would tell u i got 16.5 last fill, 17.2 the one before with pure highway driving and 13.7 before that cuz i did a ton of idling and pulled a small trailer at one point. and finally there’s reporting bias. if a hundred ppl read the thread on “what gas mileage are u getting?” the 5 that are at the way upper end are more inclined to post than the dozens like me in the standard, unremarkable range who may not bother posting. so in my experience forum thread ALWAYS make me feel like im getting atrocious gas mileage. but just look at the published numbers. you should average 24-26 with mixed driving, and 20-23 with all city. so u may or may still be getting slightly poor gas mileage.[/quote]
I’ll keep an eye on my long term fuel trim, because I’ve reset the ECU so many times it’s all funkeh.
I promised myself not to spend money unnecessarily, and I’m keeping to it!
My city mileage has been around 19, so a bit on the low side anyway. Hopefully it’ll be better now that fuel trim has calmed down, but time will tell.
Also hot damn, thanks for that email! That’s freaking awesome!
Thanks for all the links! I love the Mr. Injector service, and if I deem that it’s injectors, I’ll send it off. But first, need to do more testing.
I don’t usually watch long term fuel trim, mostly short term because it tells me what the car is doing at that moment. I’ll do a little more testing today after cleaning out the injectors by hand and tell you how LTFT and STFT looks at idle.
Fuel trim under +10% is fine to me, it’s under the norm. I just want to clean everything up for optimal performance without wasting money. Cleaning injectors at home is pretty much free if you have some carb cleaner.
I recently replaced the TPS, it’s reporting the exact same numbers as my old one. Found that one in my underwear.
Fuel economy is somewhere around 20 MPG, which is pretty poor for a Corolla. People on the Toyota Nation forums in the section specifically for 7th gens say they get at least 30. And I drive fairly conservatively 90% of the time, I like getting good mileage. Tire inflation should be fine, recently pumped them though I plan to do it again. Brakes in the front are brand new, no drag. Brakes in the back are drums, which should have a little bit of pressure in default position but are unadjusted and are too weak. Other things that affect mileage: Oil is 10W-30 instead of 5W-30 to prevent burning (7A-FE engines like to burn oil), new distributor rotor and cap, new spark plugs (NGK, OEM brand, gapped according to manual spec), new wires, etc.
That does sound logical. I guess that’s fine. But I’ll try to get things into tip top shape over time (I love this car), and get it running even better. But you are right, my mileage sounds fine. Damn you’re smart.
Thanks for all the links! I love the Mr. Injector service, and if I deem that it’s injectors, I’ll send it off. But first, need to do more testing.
I don’t usually watch long term fuel trim, mostly short term because it tells me what the car is doing at that moment. I’ll do a little more testing today after cleaning out the injectors by hand and tell you how LTFT and STFT looks at idle.
Fuel trim under +10% is fine to me, it’s under the norm. I just want to clean everything up for optimal performance without wasting money. Cleaning injectors at home is pretty much free if you have some carb cleaner.
I recently replaced the TPS, it’s reporting the exact same numbers as my old one. Found that one in my underwear.
Fuel economy is somewhere around 20 MPG, which is pretty poor for a Corolla. People on the Toyota Nation forums in the section specifically for 7th gens say they get at least 30. And I drive fairly conservatively 90% of the time, I like getting good mileage. Tire inflation should be fine, recently pumped them though I plan to do it again. Brakes in the front are brand new, no drag. Brakes in the back are drums, which should have a little bit of pressure in default position but are unadjusted and are too weak. Other things that affect mileage: Oil is 10W-30 instead of 5W-30 to prevent burning (7A-FE engines like to burn oil), new distributor rotor and cap, new spark plugs (NGK, OEM brand, gapped according to manual spec), new wires, etc.
That does sound logical. I guess that’s fine. But I’ll try to get things into tip top shape over time (I love this car), and get it running even better. But you are right, my mileage sounds fine. Damn you’re smart.
You’re right, idle would not be affected.
And damn, that’s complicated! Gonna have to do a lot of work to get those injectors clean.
You’re right, idle would not be affected.
And damn, that’s complicated! Gonna have to do a lot of work to get those injectors clean.
I tested the MAP at idle and various RPM, rock solid. No exhaust blockages. Will take apart the car tomorrow to clean fuel injectors, maybe do the propane trick. I have a can of it lying around.
I tested the MAP at idle and various RPM, rock solid. No exhaust blockages. Will take apart the car tomorrow to clean fuel injectors, maybe do the propane trick. I have a can of it lying around.
[quote=”crypkilla” post=61858]im not gonna re-read this whole thread, but weren’t you still hearing a possible vacuum leak? i dont remember what came of that. I would want to be SURE i didnt have any vac leaks. I havent tried this method, but i would think propane enrichment would be way easier and more effective. a gas would be sucked into a small vac leak easier than a poorly aim stream of liquid.
pick up a propane torch at Home Depot for $13 and fashion some kinda hose onto it to make it easier to poke around. plus the torch will come in handy in the future for all kinds of things. and was it this tread where u were using brake cleaner instead of carb cleaner? is so, im not sure about that.
I thought I was hearing one, yes. Not sure if it’s still there, but if I get bad fuel trim even at high RPM it makes it more unlikely.
Brake cleaner is also combustible, but for the record, I bought a can of carb cleaner and did it with that too. Still nothing. I can try propane enrichment too, I can always try, but isn’t that a major safety hazard?
EDIT: I also think it may not be a vacuum leak because my idle is normal, maybe a little low.