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I did take the head off friday. I thought I had posted, but I guess I didn’t. My bad.
Here’s the shakedown:
[IMG]http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy184/EvoGeo/016.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy184/EvoGeo/017.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy184/EvoGeo/018.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy184/EvoGeo/026.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy184/EvoGeo/029.jpg[/IMG]
Valves all look good, guides good, push rods good, fulcrums good. Tappets are slightly worn, but I think I can live with it. They are suppose to be ever so slightly convex on the foot, and they are ever so slightly concave. If i replace them I’m supposed to replace the cam shaft too, so that will wait. I can do that without getting this far into the engine (valve cover, pushrod cover, and timing cover, bam).
I am having trouble cleaning the head mating surface. It seems like the metal has absorbed the gunk! Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. The guy at auto zone suggested shaving cream, and I’m done playing with it. Also, what’s good to clean the valve components?
I did take the head off friday. I thought I had posted, but I guess I didn’t. My bad.
Here’s the shakedown:
[IMG]http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy184/EvoGeo/016.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy184/EvoGeo/017.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy184/EvoGeo/018.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy184/EvoGeo/026.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy184/EvoGeo/029.jpg[/IMG]
Valves all look good, guides good, push rods good, fulcrums good. Tappets are slightly worn, but I think I can live with it. They are suppose to be ever so slightly convex on the foot, and they are ever so slightly concave. If i replace them I’m supposed to replace the cam shaft too, so that will wait. I can do that without getting this far into the engine (valve cover, pushrod cover, and timing cover, bam).
I am having trouble cleaning the head mating surface. It seems like the metal has absorbed the gunk! Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. The guy at auto zone suggested shaving cream, and I’m done playing with it. Also, what’s good to clean the valve components?
Poof!
[IMG]http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy184/EvoGeo/truck319009.jpg[/IMG]
Manifold is now off. Not that bad of a job so far. All hand tools and penetrating oil. No prob.
So I’m posting this because I’ve found some things that make me more confident in my initial ‘diagnosis’ of a head gasket leak.
Exhibit 1:
[IMG]http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy184/EvoGeo/truck319006.jpg[/IMG]
Not sure if you can see it but there is a brown oily sludge in the radiator hose. It moves like oil, not water (I’m looking straight down at the hose and its still there), and its not gritty (ie not rust).
Exhibit 2:
[IMG]http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy184/EvoGeo/truck319010.jpg[/IMG]
Is that coolant leaking out between the head and block? Its a little exaggerated because the penetrating oil flowed down on either side of what I’m calling a leak, but if you look close you can tell what it would look like without the oil stain. Looks like crusty coolant all the way down the block to me. BTW that’s cylinder 3 exhaust at the leak.
Also I think I’m catching an oil leak from the valve cover at the same time (very top left in the last photo).
I’ll get to the head on friday most likely. I’ll post more pics then.
If the guy that sold this to me thought he was getting out of a problem vehicle, I’m getting more confident he goofed. After this I’ll be into it for $1600 (that includes 1100 to him, tax, tag, title, new oil, plugs, filters, and a fuel pump). And working on this truck is a breeze. I did valve cover gaskets and spark plug wells on my subaru impreza and it took like 10 hrs with a valve adjustment. I’m at 2 hrs now with this.
Poof!
[IMG]http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy184/EvoGeo/truck319009.jpg[/IMG]
Manifold is now off. Not that bad of a job so far. All hand tools and penetrating oil. No prob.
So I’m posting this because I’ve found some things that make me more confident in my initial ‘diagnosis’ of a head gasket leak.
Exhibit 1:
[IMG]http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy184/EvoGeo/truck319006.jpg[/IMG]
Not sure if you can see it but there is a brown oily sludge in the radiator hose. It moves like oil, not water (I’m looking straight down at the hose and its still there), and its not gritty (ie not rust).
Exhibit 2:
[IMG]http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy184/EvoGeo/truck319010.jpg[/IMG]
Is that coolant leaking out between the head and block? Its a little exaggerated because the penetrating oil flowed down on either side of what I’m calling a leak, but if you look close you can tell what it would look like without the oil stain. Looks like crusty coolant all the way down the block to me. BTW that’s cylinder 3 exhaust at the leak.
Also I think I’m catching an oil leak from the valve cover at the same time (very top left in the last photo).
I’ll get to the head on friday most likely. I’ll post more pics then.
If the guy that sold this to me thought he was getting out of a problem vehicle, I’m getting more confident he goofed. After this I’ll be into it for $1600 (that includes 1100 to him, tax, tag, title, new oil, plugs, filters, and a fuel pump). And working on this truck is a breeze. I did valve cover gaskets and spark plug wells on my subaru impreza and it took like 10 hrs with a valve adjustment. I’m at 2 hrs now with this.
Ok I tested cylinder 2 and was able to hear air at the tail pipe with the plug in 3 and not without. So I have some air moving between the two cylinders. I can’t get much pressure into either without the engine rotating and the glove popping out of the breather hole. The tank only had 80 psi in it and the engine rotated before i could get the valve half way open. All the tests before were with valve on the compressor just cracked open, since its a 2 gal I was trying to leave some time to look around before it emptied.
I was gonna take the head off today to get into replacing the head gasket, but I’m going to wait for some more feedback from you guys.
Ok I tested cylinder 2 and was able to hear air at the tail pipe with the plug in 3 and not without. So I have some air moving between the two cylinders. I can’t get much pressure into either without the engine rotating and the glove popping out of the breather hole. The tank only had 80 psi in it and the engine rotated before i could get the valve half way open. All the tests before were with valve on the compressor just cracked open, since its a 2 gal I was trying to leave some time to look around before it emptied.
I was gonna take the head off today to get into replacing the head gasket, but I’m going to wait for some more feedback from you guys.
There were no bubbles in the coolant.
Also I did have both plugs out and did not notice air coming out of the opposite cylinder when I did the test yesterday. Just tested again and the majority of the air just comes out of the breather hole. I plugged it with a nitrile glove and could still hear a leak, but I could smell a little gas when I pressurized 3. Also a piece of tissue held across the opposite hole fluttered just a little bit only when air was applied (I checked it back and forth with and without compressed air to be sure it wasn’t the wind or my hand because it was so slight).
The gas smell would mean intake valve, right? I don’t think that explains the pressurized crankcase/valve cover though, unless I have bad valve stem seals. Even then, the majority should be leaking out of the carb and a little into the valve cover.
I am now leaning toward rings. With 3 at TDC compression, 2 is 60 degress behind so it has 15 degrees left on its intake stroke. The air goes past 3’s rings, past 2’s rings, then out both the intake and spark plug hole.
If im right then I should get exhaust valve leak from 3 when 2 is at tdc compression because 60 degrees ahead is 15 degrees into exhaust stroke. I’ll double check that as soon as this compressor’s over heat safety cools.
My question now is can I tow with this with worn rings? As you can see from the video, it doesn’t seem to run bad at all. With a bad head gasket I was afraid that it would deteriorate and leave me stranded, but is there the same concern here? I can do a head gasket, but piston rings… the manual says to lift the motor off its mounts with a jack and prop it up with wood blocks so you can remove the oil pan and then pop the piston out of the top of the block. Thats a head gasket times 2!
Alternatively, would you feel bad selling this to a friend with worn rings if he were just going to drive it around town (I’d tell him obviously)?
There were no bubbles in the coolant.
Also I did have both plugs out and did not notice air coming out of the opposite cylinder when I did the test yesterday. Just tested again and the majority of the air just comes out of the breather hole. I plugged it with a nitrile glove and could still hear a leak, but I could smell a little gas when I pressurized 3. Also a piece of tissue held across the opposite hole fluttered just a little bit only when air was applied (I checked it back and forth with and without compressed air to be sure it wasn’t the wind or my hand because it was so slight).
The gas smell would mean intake valve, right? I don’t think that explains the pressurized crankcase/valve cover though, unless I have bad valve stem seals. Even then, the majority should be leaking out of the carb and a little into the valve cover.
I am now leaning toward rings. With 3 at TDC compression, 2 is 60 degress behind so it has 15 degrees left on its intake stroke. The air goes past 3’s rings, past 2’s rings, then out both the intake and spark plug hole.
If im right then I should get exhaust valve leak from 3 when 2 is at tdc compression because 60 degrees ahead is 15 degrees into exhaust stroke. I’ll double check that as soon as this compressor’s over heat safety cools.
My question now is can I tow with this with worn rings? As you can see from the video, it doesn’t seem to run bad at all. With a bad head gasket I was afraid that it would deteriorate and leave me stranded, but is there the same concern here? I can do a head gasket, but piston rings… the manual says to lift the motor off its mounts with a jack and prop it up with wood blocks so you can remove the oil pan and then pop the piston out of the top of the block. Thats a head gasket times 2!
Alternatively, would you feel bad selling this to a friend with worn rings if he were just going to drive it around town (I’d tell him obviously)?
Thanks for the input. The oil did not help compression values (noted above). The oil cap and the breather go the same place, so if positive pressure builds there and blows out gases, it will at the oil cap too.
not sure why the video isn’t working, but it shows the breather problem. i’ll put a link below.
I show in the leak down videos that the cylinders leak into the valve cover meaning into an oil passage in the head gasket or through piston rings. The rings would have to be pretty bad i’d guess to not improve with oil added (I used 3 squirts from an oil can). Valves seem to be ok because nothing can be heard at the exhaust or intake, however in the vid for cylinder 3 you can see the leak is so bad that a small leak from the valve could be possible.
Also oil on the plugs (see pic) apparently is a sign of head gasket leaking.
From 1985 f series shop manual ( found a copy on ebay ): If two adjacent cylinders indicate low compression pressure and squirting oil on the pistons does not increase the compress, the cause may be a cylinder head gasket leak between the cylinders. Engine oil and/or coolant in the cylinders could result from this problem,
[IMG]http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy184/EvoGeo/563.jpg[/IMG]
So, am I missing something? Anyone think it could be something other than the head gasket at this point?
Thanks for your help. I’m gonna look up some beavis and butthead on netflix now…
Thanks for the input. The oil did not help compression values (noted above). The oil cap and the breather go the same place, so if positive pressure builds there and blows out gases, it will at the oil cap too.
not sure why the video isn’t working, but it shows the breather problem. i’ll put a link below.
I show in the leak down videos that the cylinders leak into the valve cover meaning into an oil passage in the head gasket or through piston rings. The rings would have to be pretty bad i’d guess to not improve with oil added (I used 3 squirts from an oil can). Valves seem to be ok because nothing can be heard at the exhaust or intake, however in the vid for cylinder 3 you can see the leak is so bad that a small leak from the valve could be possible.
Also oil on the plugs (see pic) apparently is a sign of head gasket leaking.
From 1985 f series shop manual ( found a copy on ebay ): If two adjacent cylinders indicate low compression pressure and squirting oil on the pistons does not increase the compress, the cause may be a cylinder head gasket leak between the cylinders. Engine oil and/or coolant in the cylinders could result from this problem,
[IMG]http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy184/EvoGeo/563.jpg[/IMG]
So, am I missing something? Anyone think it could be something other than the head gasket at this point?
Thanks for your help. I’m gonna look up some beavis and butthead on netflix now…
Motor running and I show gases coming out of the breather. Thats what prompted this thread. I cant get the hoses off the pcv at the end, but trust me that theres a good vac there. Engine rpm changes when hoses are removed due to the leak.
A friend is lending me there compressor. Ill perform the leak down tomorrow, then remov the head. I expect a head gasket leak btwn 2 and 3 and oil passage. Photos will be taken and posted.
Motor running and I show gases coming out of the breather. Thats what prompted this thread. I cant get the hoses off the pcv at the end, but trust me that theres a good vac there. Engine rpm changes when hoses are removed due to the leak.
A friend is lending me there compressor. Ill perform the leak down tomorrow, then remov the head. I expect a head gasket leak btwn 2 and 3 and oil passage. Photos will be taken and posted.
Here’s my idea. I’m not really experienced with this stuff, but I’m a learn as I go kinda guy.
It seems to me like the head gasket between the two cylinders is the likely cause. Could also be valves leaking. In either case, the head must be removed. So could I just remove the head, change the gasket and visually inspect the valves? Could I miss something with a visual inspection? Could it be caused by something else that this would not help if i did it?
Thanks again.