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Hi Eric,
Just a quick question.
On my 2005 Saturn Ion of doom (tons of annoying things lately…) when I turn the fan on, on whatever level, my RPM goes at around 1100rpm and stays there.
Any clues on what to look for to cure this annoying problem ?
engine runs fine at 750-800rpm other than that…
Thanks 🙂
Yeah, the knee operation is something i was waiting for (on a wait list…) for like 1 and a half year so I was more than happy when they finally called…
They tried to reconnect a torn ligament and it did not work that good, It was too painful to walk on it and since it’s the clutch foot, that was not an option to even think of driving… They eventually had to redo the whole operation and that time they got it straight… Maybe the surgeon did not had coffee the fist time hahaha
Now I can walk, sit, climb ladders, get on my knees and drive like i’m 20 again…well more like “before I screwed my knee 2 years ago” 😆
For the car now, the only few bits I need to fix are the front right shock absorber that is completely shot and the sway bar links… those noisy little bastards 😛
and find why the shifter is so hard to get in 5th or reverse… Like I have to really push hard on the stick from neutral to reach the 5th or reverse “gate”…
There is a bit of slack in the shifter when it’s in gear, like left-right play, so I suppose it could be worn bushings or the shifter linkage pin on the end of the shift arm attached on the transmission… I’ll have to have a look at that when the temp ouside will get hotter than -12C… 😆
Happy new year btw ! :woohoo:
Hey all !
I totally forgot to put an update on this topic…
OOOOOkay…. where to start.. Life took a turn, I had to stop working because of a knee operation that went wrong and did not drive the car for over 4 months because of that and started my own computer repair shop this summer… Yeah… quite a busy spring I had…
So long story short, the big dealer ended up the high idle drama in 15 minutes…
They tried a TPS relearn with a Tech2 Scanner (god I want one of those loll), did not work
They tried a new throttle body, and it started idling normally…
They tried a used throttle body that they knew was good and it was idling just fine…
They reinstalled the old one and it started to idle high againProblem solved then, faulty throttle body…
I ended up getting the new throttle body in exchange for a computer replacement at a lower cost, i’m fine with that 🙂
Now I have a “working normal” car and business discount on parts and labor there, and a new client for my business, it’s really a win-win situation for me hahahahaha !
The tech there told me that when I reconnected the throttle body, I might have shorted something in it because I did not disconnect the battery first… Oh well.. my bad then…
Ok… bit of an update…
As days passed and as my day job starts before the dealer opens and as it ends after the dealer closes, I drove the car like that…
Now, I finally was able to go to the dealer and after 1h of trying, they were unable to get the computer to do a proper throttle position relearn…
As soon as the guy plugged the Tech2 scanner, idle dropped to normal 750ish rpm…but it would not “relearn” the new position… i’m very sure the tech didn’t had a clue of what he was doing… I told him about the service bulletin speaking about the procedure, but oh no, I surely don’t know what i’m talking about… They say it’s good to buy locally, it helps the businesses… What if they just don’t know what they’re doing ?
I’ll just go to a bigger dealer out of town (1h drive), where I went for my 3 recalls in fact… The local dealer told me it would take 1h+ to do the recalls, and the bigger dealer did them in 20 minutes… ooooookay…
Long story short, drive by wire throttle bodies SUCKS hahahaha 😛
I’ve been trying to remember all things I have done, rechecked every single plugs, hose, tubes, while under the heavy rain yesterday (thanks for well placed tree…) and I wasn’t able to spot where it all went wrong, until I started laughing alone in the driveway (looking like a total psycho for the ppl next to me…
Can this all be like that, because I DID NOT unplug the negative wire on my battery ?
Oh god… Tell me it’s not just that…
You see, in all my other cars (1990 Pontiac Tempest, 96 Pontiac Sunfire, 2002 Mazda Protegé), , the battery was next to the engine, so I did not have to think to unplug the battery. With this car, it’s in the trunk… I tend to bypass things I do not see sometimes when i’m in a rush or when I have other things in mind, and I just did it with the battery cable this time (shame on me !!)
So… i’ve been driving my car like that for days, wondering where the air leak was, or what sensor(s) was causing this, and since there is no check engine light on, the sensors are not reporting bad readings… I’ll unplug the battery cable tomorrow to reset the ECU and i’ll attempt the 3 minutes idle, 1 minute off then 3 minutes idle method once more…
If it works, i’ll gladly wear a donkey hat for punishment and put a picture here 😆
After a week or so, it still idle way too high… attempted both relearn procedures a few times and it does not seems to work… damn it !
Ok, just to clear things up a bit (more details can’t hurt), I did not have to disconnect any hose, other than the air intake tube on the throttle body itself to be able to remove it, and the MAF sensor connector on the air box
I can’t find any air leak on the car with the “spray cleaner” method or the grand father “cigar smoke” method.
As for correct reassembly, 1 electric connector on the throttle body (Throttle Position Sensor), one on the air box (MAF sensor) and 4 bolts on the throttle body doesn’t seems to require special talents or tools. Adding human errors to the equation is a possibility here in fact…
i’ll remove it once more (the air tube) to double check things under there… I do hear the throttle flaps opening and closing when I turn the key on, but it does it only once…
[b]
EDIT [/b]: just got an email from a friend who works at a gm dealer as I was typing this :Throttle Relearn procedure for GM “ecotec” engines
Description
The engine control module (ECM) learns the idle position of the throttle plate to ensure the correct idle. Anytime the throttle body is cleaned or replaced, the ECM must learn the new throttle position. The idle may be unstable or a DTC may set if the throttle position is not learned.
#1 Start and idle the engine in PARK for 3 minutes .
#2 With a scan tool, monitor desired and actual RPM.
#3 The ECM will start to learn the new idle cells and Desired RPM should start to decrease.
#4 Ignition OFF for 60 seconds .
#5 Start and idle the engine in PARK for 3 minutes .After the 3 minute run time the engine should be idling normal.
Important: During the drive cycle the check engine light may come on with idle speed DTCs. If idle speed codes are set, clear codes so the ECM can continue to learn.
#6 If the engine idle speed has not been learned the vehicle will need to be driven at speeds above 70 km/h (44 mph) with several decelerations and extended idles.
After the drive cycle, the engine should be idling normally.
If the engine idle speed has not been learned, turn OFF the ignition for 60 seconds and repeat step 6.
Once the engine speed has returned to normal, clear DTCs.
Ok so a little update :
Car starts up fine, idle fine, no more stalling when reverse (WOOOHOOOO !), no more upset when I tap the gas pedal…
BUT….
Now, when I drive and I press the clutch, to change gear,no matter where the revs are, the revs dont go down instantly like they used to, they kinda stick to where they are for a few sec, before starting to drop !?!?!
It was not doing that before the cleaning so I prsume It can only be related to what I removed that day…
I’ve double checked every connexions I had to unplug (throttle body and air sensor near air box, unplugged and replugged them and no change…
This car is haunted ! hahahahaha
Ok so I did not have time today to try the car (taking care of my mom, driving her to the city for shopping is more important in my book 😉 )
i’m about to go test it and take it on a little ride to take some “sunset pictures” around town… I’ll let you know later how it turned out… My guess is that it will run like new.
I saw the garage rags I used to put the throttle body on… they used to be gray… Still can’t believe how dirty that thing was !
Now, I bought a fuel filter while in town (24$, FRAM) to replace it but I discovered that I need a “special” tool to unhook it from the fuel line… and knowing no parts store around my mom’s place have those, i’ll just end up making one myself…don’t feel like driving 30 minutes to get a 8$ tool, and I’m not so hot to the idea of buying a tool just for a one time job… Or maybe I can borrow one from the dealer, as it’s right up the street…
After that, i’ll only have to replace the roll pin on the transmission shifter linkage and i’ll finally have a decent working car 😛
Ok so today, I bought a can of carb/throttle cleaner and cleaned that little throttle body…
Once the air intake tube was removed (a 7mm bolt, a sensor plug and unclipping the air box…), I was in for a shock…
First of all, removing the 4 10mm bolts on the throttle body was a joke… if all mechanical issues could be that easy…
On top, the throttle plate was slightly brass/golden looking, not that bad looking.
[IMG]http://i60.tinypic.com/289udj.jpg[/IMG]
that’s when I turned it upside down, I almost screamed ! hahahahaha
Holy sh*t that’s filthy in there ! :O
And no, it’s no shadow effect… the walls are THAT dirty… good lord…
[IMG]http://i62.tinypic.com/200a0xi.jpg[/IMG]
Took me about 30 minutes to clean it until it’s bare aluminium, gray and shiny…
Re installation was done in 2 minutes and I started the car (it was 7c outside…)
No stalling or trying to when I played with the throttle, no problems when going in reverse, I even left the driveway using only the clutch… NO WAY ! it seems to be fixed ! :O
One thing i saw immediately is how the “cold idle” was more normal at around 1500 rpm ( it was barely going over 1000 before cleaning…)
I’ve never Ever thought that only a dirty throttle body would cause such an annoying “problem”…
Looking at the ammount of gunk that was there, the guy who had the car before never cleaned that… Oh well… seeing how the air filter was when I went to pick up the car the first time…
[IMG]http://i61.tinypic.com/e66n1y.jpg[/IMG]
I’ll see tomorrow after a night in the cold if it’s back to normal operation or if the trouble is still there… So far so good 😉
@ sunset : the car does not start if clutch is engages (pedal released) as most manual cars will do.
As for the cruise, it’s usually only possible to turn it on at around 50-60Km/h on most cars, so just leaving my driveway would not send signal to the cruse to activate or desactivate no ? (just a theory here, as electrical problems might give all kind of troubles… I know, I’m a computer tech…)
@ thisisbuod,
Thinking about it now, It seems to me as if it suffer from fuel starvation at first…
If I rev it like just a few 100 revs (just a quick touch of the gas pedal), it does not just return to idle straight away, it kinda drops lower, front lights dims and it resumes to normal operating idle in a second. It does not seems to like that one bit…
Now, for the “happening in forward gears”, In 1st gear, it does not have that chance to do it basically, because usually, when I park in reverse, to leave in forward, I just put it in first an go, so it does not have time to rev back to idle.
Thinking of it now, I do remember it a few times doing the same while in 1st gear, when i left from work… just rolling forward a few feet then pressing the clutch, then it died…
Hmmmm…
As for letting it heat up : during winter, I do not drive until heat start to rise in cluster (usually 3-5 minutes) and still had the same issue, it seems as if it’s only the first time it moves that this weird problem happens…
I’d have to see live data from a scanner to see what happens at that very moment…
I love my reliable POS 2002 Mazda Protegé… It just got 225 000Km and the engine is still running like new (can’t say the same for the transmission unfortunately…).
I got it since new, back in Sept. 2002. It’s been extremely reliable so far… No major breakdowns, only normal maintenance like brakes, oil changes and those damn sway bar link…
Other than that, I did the timing belt at around 160 000Km, looked like new still…repaired the exhaust flex, removed all the floppy heat shields that were causing noises…
Now it’s the wheel wells and front quarters that are rusting away…
Body on those Mazda is the real big issue… They rust and rot like hell !The good thing about it is that one of my friend is the parts guy at the dealer so, I have a very good price on parts and they’re not cheap aftermarket 🙂
I’m looking into a “new” old car now… I fear my actual POS won’t last the winter… 😆
I love my reliable POS 2002 Mazda Protegé… It just got 225 000Km and the engine is still running like new (can’t say the same for the transmission unfortunately…).
I got it since new, back in Sept. 2002. It’s been extremely reliable so far… No major breakdowns, only normal maintenance like brakes, oil changes and those damn sway bar link…
Other than that, I did the timing belt at around 160 000Km, looked like new still…repaired the exhaust flex, removed all the floppy heat shields that were causing noises…
Now it’s the wheel wells and front quarters that are rusting away…
Body on those Mazda is the real big issue… They rust and rot like hell !The good thing about it is that one of my friend is the parts guy at the dealer so, I have a very good price on parts and they’re not cheap aftermarket 🙂
I’m looking into a “new” old car now… I fear my actual POS won’t last the winter… 😆
I’ve got an Innova 3100F…simple, cheap and it paid itself in a few weeks, helping friends with their check engine lights… 😉