[Dana Harripersad]

Update to those interested: transmission on the Civic screwed the pooch ten days ago or so, before I could save for a full repair/replacement. Oddly enough, the engine misfired twice on Doomsday as well…
In any event, the car is no longer driveable; I have purchased an Acura EL of identical vintage which has its own troubles, to be discussed in a later post.

Thank you to those who have posted in this thread; your assistance has proven most kind and beneficial. See you down the road.

[Dana Harripersad]

[quote=”mckrishes” post=188130]
I did see those posts. He assumed the incorrect fluid was used. Was that your case? Anyway, glad it’s improving and if worse comes to worse, you can always swap it out. I did it and it was real easy. In fact I just helped my nephew swap his engine out and it was pretty easy too. That manual I sent you early is very useful. Best of luck to you.[/quote]

I was honestly unable to tell for certain if it was the case – but based on the scent of the old fluid at fresh point when I bought the car (VS the DW-1 out of the bottle, which smelled totally different), the longevity of the old fluid (less than 30,000 KM before the changeover I did; stuff’s supposed to last 48,000 KM, AKA 30,000 miles), and its final condition upon removal, all the evidence points in that direction.

That was you who sent…? (skims old posts) Oh – it was. My bad; I’d completely forgotten just who had sent me that manual. 😳
It’s sitting in my car files on an external HDD now, but has been a freakin’ godsend for the theory side of many things outside the transmission. Thank you so much, mckrishes. 🙂

[Dana Harripersad]

[quote=”WyrTwister” post=188109]Someone has a video on removing & replacing frozen bleeder valves ?

Might do a Google search ?

Best of luck on the transmission . If you had that many cuttings drain out , I would not keep expectations too high .

[/quote]

Both calipers have a thick layer of rust covering them even without the bleeder valve issue; they function well enough, but between the clear signs of age, the bleeder valves and the brake wear issue on the passenger side I’m better off just replacing both outright. May as well flush brake fluid while I’m there.
I’ve got four sources outside ETCG for all things car-related, and they all recommend that same thing for one simple reason; bleeder valves seized in on calipers that old (can’t say for certain, but all evidence suggests these are the originals from 20 years ago) almost always snap off inside the caliper.

Thank you, Wyr, for the luck on the transmission… I’m presuming such a drastic volume of cuttings from the old fluid (coupled with the obscene amount of effort I had to go through just to crack the plug) is down to either the age of the transmission, the age of the transmission fluid, or some combination of both. Initial fluid change went on at 289750 KM; I’m changing the fluid at 290550 KM, 800 KM (500 miles) from the original change. If there’s a drastic amount of cuttings on the plug during that second change, then I’ll know the car’s on borrowed time (I’d sooner track down another Civic than replace the transmission in this one; easier on finances); for now, though, given the performance improvements to date I am rather optimistic this car will live a little longer.

To all who have commented on this thread so far, thank you for your assistance; when the car hits the proper mileage, I’ll change the fluid again and post regarding the results. Until then.

[Dana Harripersad]

Before you drill out the screws, try putting some penetrating oil in there and then using an impact screw driver as mentioned above. Worked real well for me. Drilling out screws can sometimes be a pain.

Tried that to no avail; did more damage to the driver’s socket than the screw itself. :blink:
(And lemme tell you – tracking down the impact itself was a BEAR! Turns out I don’t have one; had to borrow from a friend, and reaching him took a few days! ^_^; )
A buddy of mine tried a torch and a drill the same day I attempted the impact driver… to no effect; he had bits too weak for screws, and apparently carbide drill bits are rare out here. :huh:
Another friend (who’s actually a certified mechanic) suggested a grinder; grind the screw heads (and a little of the surrounding areas) down, then remove the screw remnants with penetrating oil and pliers. It’s gonna be… painful… but that’s the next trick on my list. Thankfully the old rotors are being scrapped anyway…

Also your transmission fluid looked pretty dark. Did you have a lot of shavings on the plug? I also like to wait several hundred miles before repeating the transmission fluid change. It gives time for the new fluid to cycle in there and do some cleaning. I heard the lucas additive is pretty thick. How has it been holding up?

The plug was covered in shavings, yes; I actually lost a shop rag (it tore itself apart) because of the sheer volume of shavings and goo on the plug. Also, the old fluid had the color (and consistency, sadly) of warm chocolate syrup as it flowed out; hard to say if that was down to the low-level conditioner (which I threw in when this whole project started) or the fluid itself. Either the original owner fed me a line (he claimed the old stuff was fresh, and that was less than 15,000 KM ago!) or the old fluid hadn’t been changed in a very long time. Given the effort I had to go through to get that damn plug off and the positive results of the first fluid change, my bet’s on the latter…. or the transmission’s wearing out, in which case this car’s on borrowed time anyway.

Also, mckrishes, I presume you’ve read the thread’s posts to date; if you have, refer to posts made here by timinglight. He did the exact same process in his ’99 Civic as I’m doing in my ’97, and waited 500 miles (about 800 KM, give or take) before changing the fluid again. I intend to follow that example (seems the old transmission needed that new fluid and probably needs what’s to come; she’s driving better every day!) whether I use the Lucas additive on the fluid change to come will depend on my budget at the time.
The Lucas additive – at least the strong stuff; what Eric threw into his Subaru way back when – is pretty thick, yes. Not quite molasses, but not too far off; I had to wait five minutes to let the stuff flow down my funnel and into the transmission system. Thank goodness I poured that first; the DW-1 afterwards helped wash the excess off and get it where it needed to be.

As for its effect on Arcee’s transmission? Hard to say; until this run of DIY efforts I’d never done a transmission fluid change on a transmission in such bad shape, never mind used the Lucas additive, so I have no basis for additive/non-additive comparison beyond how the transmission ran under the old fluid (which, as my initial post should demonstrate, was pretty freakin’ bad!). The additive itself is holding up well, to the best of my knowledge – the car shifts smoother, the transmission doesn’t overheat (as much) anymore, and slips are less prevalent than in the past. Before, I couldn’t run the AC or even cold air in my car for fear of a devastating overheat; now I can at least activate the AC for short periods… though the compressor is rather pathetic in comparison to what I’m used to. (Then again, wasn’t AC optional on Hondas of this vintage? Doubt they’d have sprung for a strong AC compressor in that case… ^_^; )
All in all, the transmission situation is improving – for which I am grateful, whatever may come next. Heck, the old girl just hit 290,000 KM the other day and isn’t slowing down – something I never thought I’d see on any car at home; most of the beaters my parents burned through died in the early 200,000s! 🙂

[quote=”WyrTwister” post=188106]Mildly uneven pad wear . Were me , I would lube the places where the pads move against metal , after I removed rust & crud .

https://www.google.com/search?q=permatex+brake+pin+lubericanr&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=ubuntu&channel=fs#channel=fs&q=permatex+brake+pin+lubricant

Then I would re-use the old calipers . Flush , then bleed as necessary .

I would again assess the wear pattern next time I replaced pads .

[/quote]

Thank you, Wyr. Performed full brake service during initial brake job attempt, using the following as guidelines:

(Yes, I know; the last video’s not ETCG.)

Have been continuing use of old calipers since initial brake job efforts; bleeder valves are seized, and the fresh grease in the caliper guide pins went ugly (still works, but looks nasty!) within two weeks of the brake service; the calipers themselves are still mostly functional, however (bleeder valves aside) and the uneven wear is rather mild; brake pad levels have not majorly fluctuated in the last few months. Will check status again as brake job is completed.

[Dana Harripersad]

[quote=”WyrTwister” post=187958]Having trouble getting brake rotors loose from the hub ? Have seen mechanics in videos bouncing the ” face ” of then ( between the lug bolts ) with an air hammer .

Carefully squirt with you favorite penetrating oil . VERY carefully apply heat . Squirt with more oil . The heat seems to draw the oil in .

If the rotors are to be replaced any way , try hitting the ” rim ” from the opposite side . Again , with an air hammer if you have one .

You are 100% correct . Labor costs will eat you alive . I used to complain about the high cost of parts . Sometimes you can save decent money by ordering on line . But , in the long run , you pay what you have to pay or you walk .

God bless
Wyr[/quote]

Getting the rotors off in and of itself isn’t the problem; I could do it myself, except for one detail. Honda’s got these pesky screws holding the rotor to the hub, screws that (outside initial vehicle assembly) are entirely unnecessary. (Thank heavens this is a Civic and not an Accord… captive rotors SUCK.)
With the vehicle being 20 years old (and whoever did the last brake job decided to keep those screws on there!) those screws are on TIGHT; too tight for mere hand tools. A mechanic friend suggested grinding the heads of the screws off and removing the remnants with pliers; I’m going to track down a good grinder and do that, because heat and penetrating oil haven’t done much. Of course, then I’ll have to track down new calipers because the ones on the car are causing mildly uneven pad wear… :blink: ….as I said before, this car’s a test run. Lots of work to do on it, but it still runs in the meantime. ^_^;

[Dana Harripersad]

[quote=”WyrTwister” post=187942]Sounds like you are on the right track with your transmission .

Unfortunately, I do knot know of any “modern” transmissions that have a drain plug in the torque converter. So, all in all, you are not able to drain but 40% – 60% of the old, dirty fluid.[/quote]

No modern ones do, that I’m aware of; even this vintage of Honda Civic doesn’t have a drain plug in the torque converter – it’s got a drain plug in the transmission assembly itself, though. The reason for waiting 500 miles/800 KM before I change the fluid again is so the old, dirty fluid can be cycled out of the torque converter into the assembly proper, so I’m told. The work I’ve done and plan to do should, in total, remove at least half of the old fluid and eliminate that pesky check engine light.
(The alternative is to buy 9L of Honda ATF and do three drain-n-fills with a drive cycle in between each one; that’s a Honda-approved flush technique I cannot afford to utilize at present.)

Harbor Freight – if I ever get access to it – is a brand I won’t touch if it involves moving parts. Breaker bars and the wrench types you’ve mentioned, Wyr? Sure. Any kind of ratchet, grinder, or specialty tool? No. I’ve heard many stories of the damages those things can do when they break, and am in no hurry to increase the risk of putting myself in the hospital. Honestly, with all the Motomaster/Harbor Freight comparisons I’ve seen in my research, I’m leery just using a floor jack from the brand. :unsure:

[quote=”WyrTwister” post=187942]You need to be able to take a fair look at what you are buying & how you will be using it. [/quote]

Thank you for your concern, Wyr; honest self-examination of all my purchases and their use has been the norm since I began DIY efforts. 🙂
I’m no professional mechanic myself; the work I’m doing on this car is purely to save money long-term. (Labor costs will eat people alive if they let ’em.) It is also practice and preparation for further savings, after I get something else. (Likely the same brand; Honda’s proven fairly reliable and long-lasting compared to the domestic brands I used to drive.)
I’m not gonna be buying high-end tools for a long time yet – it’s not necessary; all my work is done with the use of common hand tools and supplies. Most of my tools are Motomaster (or their companion brand, Certified). One breaker bar in my entire collection is from Princess Auto. Some of my ratchets, sockets and such are Stanley or DeWalt, which is as close to brand-name as I dare travel; strictly speaking, I don’t need that much high-quality equipment right now due to the nature of the work I’m doing. When I look to impact tools or specialty tools, then I’ll be checking “the good stuff”. 🙂

Thanks for the luck, Wyr. I doubt I’ll need it – the one obstacle I encountered to date during my fluid work has been eliminated – but it’s appreciated just the same.

Now if I could just get those old brake rotors free… :dry:

[Dana Harripersad]

And I’m grateful for that dipstick every day – makes the drain-n-fill absolutely easy.

According to all available info I could locate, yes, Hondas are picky about the type of transmission fluid utilized. No, they are NOT as picky about transmission conditioners – which is what Lucas Oil is. On the other hand, I’ve dumped one of each variety of the Lucas Oil transmission conditioners into the transmission since getting the car; the old fluid got a dose of the low-level transmission conditioner, while this latest changeover got the same fluid that Eric himself used in his Subaru back in the day. That being said, I will likely take your advice, Wyr, and avoid the transmission conditioner with the next drain-n-fill in 500 miles (800 KM); the ones I’ve dumped in have likely done more than enough.
(I’m following TimingLight’s suggestion vis a vis transmission fluid; check earlier in the post.)

The closest Canada has to Harbor Freight that I’ve ever been aware of is a franchise called Canadian Tire. Half my tools are from their tool brand, Motomaster. Surprisingly, despite the parallels between the two brands I’ve never had the issues with Motomaster tools that others have had with Harbor Freight.

[Dana Harripersad]

Negative. Filter on 6th generation Civics is internal (possibly all 6th gen Hondas) – all I did was pull the dipstick (doubles as a fill plug), crack the drain bolt to drain the old fluid, replace the drain bolt’s crush washer, tighten the drain bolt back into place, and refill with 3L of Honda ATF.

What you’re thinking of, Wyr, is something like this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVhXQti8Qv4

I referred to this video for Honda transmission fluid work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7_RsnD8hAU

Watch them both, listen to Eric’s commentary; you’ll see the differences.

[Dana Harripersad]

Update to those concerned: finally tracked down a two-foot long 3/8 breaker bar (Princess Auto up here in Canada is a lifesaver on that front!), cracked that pesky drain bolt and did the first run of transmission fluid changing; with the extra leverage it took an hour to get the change done (with a Lucas transmission conditioner as well; about 450 KM until the next change. See Instagram post, linked at the bottom of this post, for further details.)
All told, between the Honda ATF, a new crush washer for the drain plug, Lucas transmission conditioner and the breaker bar I spent about $70CDN – thankfully, the next run that price will be cut down by about $20… long breaker bars are PRICEY suckers, though definitely worth the investment. I believe the funnel I bought a month ago also cost another $10 or so, though I can’t seem to locate that particular receipt… anywho, next change the total price will be basically cut in half compared to all the crud that lead to today’s effort.

Arcee shifts much smoother now, and in a 50-60 kilometer drive (an average day’s driving) I didn’t encounter the almighty rattle and transmission slippage was comparatively minor. How much of that’s down to the ATF vs the transmission conditioner? Anyone’s guess.
However, the CEL persists in remaining active – thankfully with the codes originally mentioned; presumably that’s down to the fact the system’s still… what, half full of the old fluid? Furthermore, an odd situation has cropped up; at operating temperature, on rare occasions I’ve got to floor it to at least 3500 RPM before acceleration transfers into solid movement. Strange…
In any event, I suppose we’ll see how (if?) things change in 450 KM, when I change the fluid once again. Thankfully THAT round promises to be easier. I’ll keep you posted.

View this post on Instagram

To borrow (and paraphrase) an old quote – ha-ha, drain plug! Today, victory is MINE! 😀 Note to self: a few longer ratchets for times like this. Credit to @ericthecarguy for the DIY video on how to do this job in a Honda (stay dirty and stay true to you, big guy!), and @princess_auto (NE Calgary) for supplying the breaker bar (photo #4) that let me finally get this done! 🙂 #hondacivic #honda #transmissionfluid #transmissionfluidchange #finallygotit #finallybeingdone #nevereasy #lessonsnotfailures #toughchallenge #oldbolts #oldbolt #leverage #leveragelove

A post shared by Dana Harripersad (@daha3350) on May 15, 2017 at 12:53pm PDT

[Dana Harripersad]

Spent most of the last month battling flu bugs, actually. Annoying, that; it’s kept me from more than just automotive repair.

This week, I’ve been back on my feet catching up on EVERYTHING – and today, I’ve finally tracked down replacement Honda ATF, a new crush washer for the drain plug, and a nice long funnel to reach the transmission dipstick hole…. as well as a transmission conditioner to appease my father, who for unknown reasons has decided to butt in on this situation despite not being any sort of car guy or technician. -_-

Literally just got back home; I’m letting the car cool down for an hour before I start the transmission fluid change and an oil change. Will respond again later on with further developments as they arise.

EDIT: My Instagram post has further details on the matter…. but I followed the instructions available (literally; had the “How to Change Honda ATF” video open as I was doing the work), and couldn’t remove the bolt; the sucker is seized on by rust. All I did was wreck one of my older 3/8 ratchets. :pinch:

Got the oil change done, though.

[Dana Harripersad]

Greetings from western Canada, Eric! No question this time; simply praises from Airdrie, Alberta.

Your work has helped keep me from the gutter more than once; I’ve already saved a good two hundred bucks Canadian in oil changes and seasonal tire rotations, with more savings to come in the future – and equally important, your forum recently confirmed a diagnosis I had received regarding my ’97 Civic, which is helping confirm certain car-related decisions to come after this tax season. Just wanted to say thank you so much for that help and others (without you, there wouldn’t be an ETCG Forum or videos to have helped the people at all!), as well as all you’ve done to date and all you’re doing now; you are a living example of what comes when a person never gives up on the craft they choose.

Can’t wait to see the Fairmont Project when it’s finished – to borrow your catchphrase, be safe, have fun and stay dirty!

Take care.
Dana Harripersad

[Dana Harripersad]

Thank you for the clarification, Timinglight; it’s good to know I’m not alone in this… situation. 🙂
Next oil change is coming up once spring thaw sets in, at which time I can rotate on the 3-season tires again – I’ll track down a transmission funnel and some Honda DW-1 ATF at the same time; get all three tasks done at once.

Again, will update as developments occur.

[Dana Harripersad]

mckrishes – I… can see why. Dang, didn’t know you were gonna try and email the ENTIRE service manual… o_O!
Thanks a million; if I don’t end up replacing the car outright with another 6th gen Civic in better shape (current one’s got a list of issues outside the transmission anyway), this’ll be a great help… heck, it’ll be a great help anyway, since I plan to stick with that vintage of car for awhile.

Timinglight – noted and appreciated; I will try that as well. Hopefully I can find a funnel that’ll fit…

My thanks to all of you for your aid; again, I shall keep you posted as developments occur.

[Dana Harripersad]

Hm… guess I’ll be using both my jacks in combination, then – I like to borrow from ChrisFix’s playbook and leave a jack in place as backup to any stands I use, so the two-ton will have to do for that purpose after the 3-ton helps put the car up on stands properly. (two-ton is a touch too short on lift range, to my annoyance – I’m talking an inch, at best! -_-; )

If you can email me the manual, that would be a great help; daha3350@icloud.com

Guess there’ll be a Pick-N-Pull run in my future…

[Dana Harripersad]

Would a two-ton floor jack suffice for that purpose? It’s the only spare jack I have… ^_^;

[Author]

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