[Chris]

Your symptoms are the same ones i had when my gasket blew. But like every one else said it could be alot of things. The over heating leads me to a head gasket because of the rough idle and stall after a hot shutoff for ten minutes, but then normal after that initial bad start. In my case it was a leak in the gasket that would cause coolant to seep by the pressure of the cooling system. My car would start rough and sometimes die after a hot shut off but run normal after that initial start. The only way i knew was for one, the cooling system was overly pressurized due to the compression gasses seeping past the leak, my over flow would have bubbles coming out like it was boiling, i blew several coolant hoses, and finally i removed my sparkplugs (when cold) stuck a vacuum hose in the cylinder and took it out. I found it covered in coolant (not alot but a very notable amount). my spark plugs where wet a little as well and not with fuel.

Again follow the others suggestions, but past experience tells me your mechanic is not far off

[Chris]

Hey Pete,

I am by no means an engine builder or professional mechanic, but i have done a head gasket job on my honda as well. Using oem parts was a very good idea from the start as well as having the head and blocked worked by a machine shop.

The fel-pro head gaskets are just fine and have used them with no issues.

The symptoms you described are the exact same symptoms I had when my gasket blew. Bubbles in the radiator/ over flow, very rough starts even when warm, excessive white smoke and loss of coolant. Other than that it would run fine I even had a technician check for compression gases via the syringe/ fluid color change thingy ( sorry dont know exactly the name of that tester) but it checked out fine. It wasnt until i took the spark plug out, took a vacuum hose and stuck it in the cylinder. The hose was soaked in coolant and i thought to myself “well darn it, its the head gasket”.

Based on your compression numbers I would say that a cracked head would not cause such good compression, but rather a slight leak in the head gasket that would seal as the engine runs only allowing only some coolant to burn. This explains why it would start rough both cold and warm because the pressure from the cooling system would push coolant through that leak. The bubbles and overly excessive pressure is caused by the compression gasses seeping the leak and into the cooling system. This is what at least happened to me. The only way to know for sure is either a leak down and/ or removing the head and taking it to a shop.

The only advice I can give you is the advice i received from an engine builder and honda master technician is using a click style torque wrench rather than an I-beam. Yes, I have heard many and i mean “MANY” arguments that the Ibeam is more accurate than a click style and why one should use an I-beam, and vise versa, but what the masters where emphasizing with a job like this is consistency. All bolts must be torqued the “same” if you know what i mean. With an I beam, you can be very careful to try to torque all the bolts the same, but at the same time some might be over torqued or under torqued. As the engine goes through various heat cycles, those uneven torques would cause the head to warp possibly causing another leak. Can torque be uneven with a click style, possibly, but when they said that i should use my thirty dollar click style rather than my nicer I-beam i was kinda perplexed ( i even showed them the wrenches lol) ” If I were you, I would use an the click style” they told me as they pointed to my click style wrench. So I did, and so far I have no issues ( other than a pinging problem that i have been trying to solve for 3 years that is discussed in another forum).

So here is the advice i can give you. Use a click-style torque wrench ( maybe take back the sears I beam to get their click style, however, both are nice to have for other various jobs), Generously oil the bolts and washers with engine oil( use new bolts if you can, Too much or too little oil and even dirty head bolt holes would cause the bolts to “pop” causing uneven torque values), felpro head gaskets are just fine( oem is good too), use a thread chaser( carefully) to clean the head bolt holes as well as use a tap and die set to even out the threads of the head bolts (even with a fresh set), clean both matting surfaces with a mild scrub ( the engine builder suggested i use the red 3M scrub to clean the surfaces, can be purchased at any auto parts store), use a lint free towel coated with engine oil to clean the cylinder walls of debris from the disassemble and scrubbing ( he also suggested I spray wd-40 around the piston and turn the crank to clean anything that could have fallen between the walls and piston). Put everything back together, torque everything down,make sure mechanical timming is correct, prime the engine and fire her up.

I hope that helps, again im am by no means a pro but this advice is what i got from the pros as well as various research from forums such as Honda- tech and d-series.org.

I hope and pray everything goes well for you Pete.
Happy building

Chris

[Chris]

Hey Pete,

I am by no means an engine builder or professional mechanic, but i have done a head gasket job on my honda as well. Using oem parts was a very good idea from the start as well as having the head and blocked worked by a machine shop.

The fel-pro head gaskets are just fine and have used them with no issues.

The symptoms you described are the exact same symptoms I had when my gasket blew. Bubbles in the radiator/ over flow, very rough starts even when warm, excessive white smoke and loss of coolant. Other than that it would run fine I even had a technician check for compression gases via the syringe/ fluid color change thingy ( sorry dont know exactly the name of that tester) but it checked out fine. It wasnt until i took the spark plug out, took a vacuum hose and stuck it in the cylinder. The hose was soaked in coolant and i thought to myself “well darn it, its the head gasket”.

Based on your compression numbers I would say that a cracked head would not cause such good compression, but rather a slight leak in the head gasket that would seal as the engine runs only allowing only some coolant to burn. This explains why it would start rough both cold and warm because the pressure from the cooling system would push coolant through that leak. The bubbles and overly excessive pressure is caused by the compression gasses seeping the leak and into the cooling system. This is what at least happened to me. The only way to know for sure is either a leak down and/ or removing the head and taking it to a shop.

The only advice I can give you is the advice i received from an engine builder and honda master technician is using a click style torque wrench rather than an I-beam. Yes, I have heard many and i mean “MANY” arguments that the Ibeam is more accurate than a click style and why one should use an I-beam, and vise versa, but what the masters where emphasizing with a job like this is consistency. All bolts must be torqued the “same” if you know what i mean. With an I beam, you can be very careful to try to torque all the bolts the same, but at the same time some might be over torqued or under torqued. As the engine goes through various heat cycles, those uneven torques would cause the head to warp possibly causing another leak. Can torque be uneven with a click style, possibly, but when they said that i should use my thirty dollar click style rather than my nicer I-beam i was kinda perplexed ( i even showed them the wrenches lol) ” If I were you, I would use an the click style” they told me as they pointed to my click style wrench. So I did, and so far I have no issues ( other than a pinging problem that i have been trying to solve for 3 years that is discussed in another forum).

So here is the advice i can give you. Use a click-style torque wrench ( maybe take back the sears I beam to get their click style, however, both are nice to have for other various jobs), Generously oil the bolts and washers with engine oil( use new bolts if you can, Too much or too little oil and even dirty head bolt holes would cause the bolts to “pop” causing uneven torque values), felpro head gaskets are just fine( oem is good too), use a thread chaser( carefully) to clean the head bolt holes as well as use a tap and die set to even out the threads of the head bolts (even with a fresh set), clean both matting surfaces with a mild scrub ( the engine builder suggested i use the red 3M scrub to clean the surfaces, can be purchased at any auto parts store), use a lint free towel coated with engine oil to clean the cylinder walls of debris from the disassemble and scrubbing ( he also suggested I spray wd-40 around the piston and turn the crank to clean anything that could have fallen between the walls and piston). Put everything back together, torque everything down,make sure mechanical timming is correct, prime the engine and fire her up.

I hope that helps, again im am by no means a pro but this advice is what i got from the pros as well as various research from forums such as Honda- tech and d-series.org.

I hope and pray everything goes well for you Pete.
Happy building

Chris

[Chris]

I fogot to mention that the sound it makes is the sound of rice randomly dropping on foil. It also doesnt ping when cold.

Could weak spark cause the same issue not igniting the fuel completeley allowing the uningnited mixter to detonate randomly?

forgive me for sounding desperate

[Chris]

I fogot to mention that the sound it makes is the sound of rice randomly dropping on foil. It also doesnt ping when cold.

Could weak spark cause the same issue not igniting the fuel completeley allowing the uningnited mixter to detonate randomly?

forgive me for sounding desperate

[Chris]

this is why i think its a vac leak somewhere or my distributor is advancing the timeing too early as i accelerate. Every now and again when i restart my car at operating temp, it would idle high as if it where cold (1800 rpm) for a good couple minutes. Then it would pop once and idle back to normal. i know this engine has controlled vacuum leaks via the evap solinoid and iacv. It doesnt happen too often as a matter of fact i can count how many times it did it on my hand but its just random and only happened after the hg . It doesnt ping at WOT even with 87 octane. if the cause was due to higher comprssion i think it would ping all through out the power band and my motor would have blown along time ago.

This is something i need to retrieve live data for but i dont have the capable scanner to do so. if this issue helps put a clue in whats going on i really appreciate it

Thanks guys for all the help and tips. To be honest, I would have never learned as much as i did if this problem never existed so in a sense im thankful. have u guys had any similar experieces with issue that you just cant seem to solve?

Chris

[Chris]

this is why i think its a vac leak somewhere or my distributor is advancing the timeing too early as i accelerate. Every now and again when i restart my car at operating temp, it would idle high as if it where cold (1800 rpm) for a good couple minutes. Then it would pop once and idle back to normal. i know this engine has controlled vacuum leaks via the evap solinoid and iacv. It doesnt happen too often as a matter of fact i can count how many times it did it on my hand but its just random and only happened after the hg . It doesnt ping at WOT even with 87 octane. if the cause was due to higher comprssion i think it would ping all through out the power band and my motor would have blown along time ago.

This is something i need to retrieve live data for but i dont have the capable scanner to do so. if this issue helps put a clue in whats going on i really appreciate it

Thanks guys for all the help and tips. To be honest, I would have never learned as much as i did if this problem never existed so in a sense im thankful. have u guys had any similar experieces with issue that you just cant seem to solve?

Chris

[Chris]

so an update, on the way home from work it started pinging again. is my compression really that high? Im at a loss right now fellas. is there something im missing lol. goodness gracious.

thanks for all of ur guys’ tips. if there is something else im missing let me know please
i have no idea where to check. thanks fellas
chris

[Chris]

so an update, on the way home from work it started pinging again. is my compression really that high? Im at a loss right now fellas. is there something im missing lol. goodness gracious.

thanks for all of ur guys’ tips. if there is something else im missing let me know please
i have no idea where to check. thanks fellas
chris

[Chris]

you know fellas, the increase compression has always been in the back of my mind. I just didnt want to believe that was the cause. I never heard of putting two head gaskets in a honda to decrease compression lol.

would colder sparkplugs and a degree of ingnition retardation be enough to run 89. or should i just stick with the premium?

thanks guys for all the help.

Out of curiosity how would i know if my mechanical timing was a tooth off? if all the lines lined up and are still lined up after i spun the crank several times, would a tooth off be very ovious?

[Chris]

you know fellas, the increase compression has always been in the back of my mind. I just didnt want to believe that was the cause. I never heard of putting two head gaskets in a honda to decrease compression lol.

would colder sparkplugs and a degree of ingnition retardation be enough to run 89. or should i just stick with the premium?

thanks guys for all the help.

Out of curiosity how would i know if my mechanical timing was a tooth off? if all the lines lined up and are still lined up after i spun the crank several times, would a tooth off be very ovious?

[Chris]

Alrighty, time for a little upate. Yesterday i decided to fill up with 91. I then drove around a little to allow the gas to circulate. This morning i drove to work as usual and so far there is no pinging. I did push it this time, especially on the gradual inclines in the high ways where my car would usually ping and it didnt ping.

This is telling me a few things. 1, my ignition timeing is a littla too advanced ( i tripled checked however), or two the compression is a littl too high from the resurfaced head or maybe even a tiny vac leak thats allowind undetected air offsetting the a/f ratio.

The gas too me is just masking the actual problem. this is suppose to be an economy car, its far from being a sports car lol.

The compression test is gonna have to wait till i get the chance to do it.

what do u guys think?

Chris

[Chris]

Alrighty, time for a little upate. Yesterday i decided to fill up with 91. I then drove around a little to allow the gas to circulate. This morning i drove to work as usual and so far there is no pinging. I did push it this time, especially on the gradual inclines in the high ways where my car would usually ping and it didnt ping.

This is telling me a few things. 1, my ignition timeing is a littla too advanced ( i tripled checked however), or two the compression is a littl too high from the resurfaced head or maybe even a tiny vac leak thats allowind undetected air offsetting the a/f ratio.

The gas too me is just masking the actual problem. this is suppose to be an economy car, its far from being a sports car lol.

The compression test is gonna have to wait till i get the chance to do it.

what do u guys think?

Chris

[Chris]

i will be running a compression test when i have the chance. when i get the numbers what psi is considered too high for the engine? again thanks for the tips.

I have to say though. this engine is a little trooper.

[Chris]

i will be running a compression test when i have the chance. when i get the numbers what psi is considered too high for the engine? again thanks for the tips.

I have to say though. this engine is a little trooper.

[Author]

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