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An update of sorts – was looking around DuPont’s website and see that indeed the European Union has adopted a Directive, which stipulates that from 2011 mobile air condition systems (MAC) of new types of vehicles have to be filled with a refrigerant with low GWP (a de facto ban of the use
of refrigerant R134a).One of these is HFO-1234yf, which DuPont calls Opteon® YF.
I guess one could get some of this stuff from one of these DuPont jobbers?
http://www2.dupont.com/Refrigerants/en_US/uses_apps/automotive_ac/SmartAutoAC/where_to_buy_NA.html
If the tree huggers in the EU adopted this, is there any doubt, the tree huggers here might push for it?
Anyone have any idea what it would take to convert an R-1234a system to a HFO-1234yf system? What’s the word from our resident HV/AC experts?
OK, so I worked my way back from the manifold and removed all of the clamps holding the A/C lines down. That gave me play to move the manifold freely and it seated perfectly on the compressor. Screwed the bolt down and all was good. Now I just gotta figure out what to do with the line spaghetti.
Guy at the hardware store used snap ring pliers to get the end off of the yellow gauge-set line. Then he took it in back and wrenched the valve out of it. Sold me a new o-ring for the one he had to destroy.
Connected up the vacuum pump and finally got negative pressure readings on the gauges! So I let it suck away for 30-minutes while I went back and reviewed the “How to Recharge” video. 5-min to get started, 23-min video and came back and had 24-in of vacuum on the system! Is it possible to have leaks and still draw that kind of vacuum?. Anyway, let the system sit for 25-min while I ate lunch and it held 24-in. So far so good!
Then I realized that I needed the valve that goes on the top of the refrigerant can, so I restarted the pump and let it run while I ran down to the store for a valve. Came back and hooked my 14-oz can of R-134a with leak detection on to the yellow line. Oh, btw, the leak detection stuff works as the nipple was leaking a bit. So had to tighten things down to get the o-ring seated and all was good.
Started up the car, put the thermo inside the center vent (it read 100-F), set the A/C on Max A/C, temp dial to max blue, fan on low. Went around and opened the blue valve on the gauge set and the gage needle jumped up. Turned my can of R-134a with dye upside down and the blue gage was up around 80. After a bit it dropped and then viola! the high side gauge jumped up! Whoo HOOO! Looks like the compressor was working! I’m thinking – cool air here we come!
But alas! My excitement was rudely interrupted by a large POOF!
My old nemesis a “quick connect” fitting blew apart! The lower fitting on the condenser – the one that attaches to the liquid line! Huh? I’m pretty sure I had it seated when I changed the lines. So I pushed it back together very firmly and heard the connection “click.” Also, then checked the other fitting that was next to it and it appeared to be seated.
So no problem, I have a second can, since the system takes 2# to charge. But in stepping back, I can’t figure out why that lower connection – the one I know isn’t seated (see above pics) – hasn’t blown apart? Anyway, repeated the procedure with the second can and once again thought I had success when the upper quick connect on the condenser blew apart! Did I ever mention how much I LUV quick connect fittings???
So if you notice a slightly bigger hole in the ozone layer today, well that is me and the lovely quick connects. My bad fellow citizens! My bad! Oh, and there has to be a better way to paint one’s engine compartment green than the procedures I just used! {nah – not gunna post a picture of THAt mess….}
Now before I go out and buy some more R-134a to discharge to the atmosphere in unique and unusual ways……
What should I do next?
[quote=”cap269″ post=140140] I can somewhat see removing the compressor belt, although leaving it on doesn’t hurt anything. There is practically zero load on the engine from it when the compressor is just idling (not engaged). As for the fan, that should not have been disconnected, because the computer can actually turn that fan on if extra cooling is needed to prevent an overheat. And again, no real need to disconnect it, it won’t turn on unless needed.[/quote]
Hey, that is a good thought! I’ll have to remake that electrical connection on the Honda! I guess I didn’t know that was a possibility. Were computers THAT sophisticated way back in 1989 (is that b4 OBD1?) that the computer would turn on the dedicated A/C fan for extra engine cooling? In effect running two fans at once? If so, is it possible I have damaged something running it hot for many years?
Now on to where we are…. That manifold to compressor connection is driving me buggy! Was torquing on the bolt and it was taking enough “factory grunt” that I knew it wasn’t right. Still gotta figure out what is the demon in this so I can get this connection seated? Sigh.
Just for fun I connected up the A/C Gage set and the vacuum pump ( OEM brand on both) to see if there was indeed a leak. Yeah, red line to the high side (“H” on the cap – close to Condenser) and Blue line on the low side (connector next to Accumulator/Drier). The second I kicked on the vacuum pump I know something wasn’t right – it just didn’t sound right.
I rechecked everything including proper positioning of the “valves” on the H & L connectors – yeah they were cranked down to depress the associated Schrader values. I disconnected the yellow line (middle line) from the valve set, up next to the valves, and while the pump was running I could not detect any vacuum. Took the other end off the vacuum pump and put my finger over the end of the nipple on the pump and got the same thing I get when I cover the business end of a shop-vac hose. So it seems the vacuum pump was working. [Oh and the oil level in the sight glass was perfectly even with the line markings on the case. Brand new machine, so I’d hope so!]
Then I noticed it looked like there was, what looks like it might be, a check valve on the curved end of the yellow line. Depressed it with a screw driver so know it works and isn’t jammed shut. So I guess this was designed for when one is filling a system and needs to switch bottles, the check valve keeps everything from escaping if one does a Homer Simpson “DOH!!” and leaves the valves open on the gauge set! So if this valve is one way, then why not just switch it end for end? So I did that and still could tell I wasn’t applying any vacuum to the gauges.
Oh and I should say at some point, I finally pulled the manifold off of the compressor and placed the factory sealing “cap” back on the manifold. It goes on very tight! Figured any leak would be at one of my joint connections or at the Condenser.
So what about this line? Does that check valve screw out? How do I used it?
So what I did figure out I could do, is I found a foot long piece of plastic tubing that “just” fit on the brass nipples on the vacuum pump and the gauge set. Snugged it up and fired up the pump and could see the needle on the low side moving negative slightly. Unfortunately that hose was only 1-foot long and I didn’t wanna stand there holding the pump up for 30-minutes. So something to buy, unless I can figure out how to work with the yellow hose that was supplied. Then again, it is REALLY humid here (take a step outside the house and sweat a bucket). So not sure I wanna vacuum the whole system until I’m ready with the refrigerant. After all, I’d have to open the system up again and that would just allow all of this lovely moisture in the air to get in there!
So making some progress – slow as it goes as I struggle along with ignorance and some trepidation.
Appreciate the knowledge, education and confidence I get from the site! THANKS!
[quote=”cap269″ post=139979]Never heard of anything getting disconnected really. They usually just recover the refrigerant and call it a day. Once the refrigerant has been removed, the low pressure switch keeps the system from activating. I guess it’s possible someone might pull a fuse or relay, but nothing else should really be done to it besides sucking out the refrigerant.[/quote]
OK, fair enough.
On the Ford the refrigerant probably leaked out, so no need to remove of recover it!
One reason I asked is that when the same situation happened to the 89 Accord, in that case, the technician did “disconnect” things:
removed the belt from the compressor
Disconnected the fan electrical connection (found when I changed the radiator)Thanks again! I’ll post the next “fun” I’m having…. soon…..
Thank you Evil-i and Cap269! I won’t stress over those connectors any more!
Still wondering if there are “standard” things that get disconnected when the dealer disables an A/C system – or things I should look for?
Also still scratching my head over that last quick connect and how to get the manifold to line up with the compressor. If I get a seal then I can play with the vacuum pump and gage set I borrowed!
dare I say more? ……………………………….3/3
Oh, and finally….. I “found” a couple of electrical connections just “hanging out” in the vicinity of the drier! Anyone know what these go to? I did not take them apart during THIS repair. I went back and checked my raw pictures from the Heater Core Replacement and see these connectors flopping in the breeze in those shots! Anyone know what these connectors are or where they go to?
These connectors have me wondering something else… When one takes their broken A/C into a shop and the owner decides the repair is too expensive…. and the technician offers to “disconnect” the A/C system for better efficiency, then what is the “standard operating procedure?” In other words what else was the technician likely to have done to the car/system? What needs to be “undone” to get the system to work again? What else should I check?
Thanks in advance. I know I’m going to get this figured out and have cool air at some point, but sure it is going to be an education along the way!
<font color="#bbbbff]In my best Ron Popeil voice..[/color]. [color=#ff0000″>But wait! THERE’S MORE!!!!! ……..2/3
Spent over an hour (at least) trying to get the manifold to line up with and seat on the compressor. Oh sure, when I replaced that line Thursday evening it was some fun getting it lined up but eventually it seated flat and I could tighten the bolt down. Then of course I took it off to give myself some play in making the connection above (the one that hasn’t finished!) Also, I eventually took the bracket off – the one that holds the mufflers apart – but that didn’t do much to help things. So now it is taking some force (of the bolt) to get this joint together and it is not seating. No seating and the o-ring on the compressor doesn’t seal! Sigh.
Who can help me figure this out?
Thanks to all for the advice so far! 1/3
OK so the fun has started on the A/C repair/restoration!
Spent the day fighting with Ford’s lovely “quick connects!” { I LOVE quick connects!} These things and I just don’t get along very well. I think I’d prefer compression fittings! I did learn a new “trick” which is really an old trick if one is paying attention [after all the theory of an impact wrench makes sense, so it follows to carry this “style” over to other things) So the “trick” is to not only pull like heck, but also twist & turn. Oh, and I guess eating your Wheaties, spinach and vitamins wouldn’t hurt either? Or is that just my personal problem? :unsure:
Now something else I did which isn’t shown, and thus may not be advisable…. I oiled the female end of the quick connect joint. Sure I have seen advice about oiling the o-rings, so figured the other side could use some help too! Nothing a little Q-tip wouldn’t help?
So that worked well getting the evaporator linked up and the condenser too! But where I have a problem is the accumulator/drier line to the manifold line set connection. I have the joint together but can not get the quick connect to seat – it won’t go the last 1/8th inch! I tried putting pliers on the incoming (female) side of the line and twisting and turning as I was forcing the connection together – but no luck. [No, not on the metal tube itself, but further down the line on the crimped on connector between the metal and rubber hose section.] Then I tried the same thing in reverse – trying to take the connection apart and now it doesn’t move in that direction! If it is that stuck I suspect it is sealed, but who knows? so……. What do I do?
Thanks Eric!
Fortunately, this system is already R134a refrigerant!
I am using this as a test/education on the process so that when I start work on the ’89 Accord, I can do the R-12 to R134a conversion. So THANK YOU for that link – I’m sure it will be most helpful!
I’m sure there is some “fun” lying ahead in this repair…. now just waiting on UPS to get here with the parts! (they’ve been “Out for Delivery” for 11 hours now!) edit- delivered at 6:30 PM – 12hr on truck.
[quote=”cap269″ post=139537]The orifice tube is located in the condenser-to-evaporator line. If you are replacing this line it should come with an orifice tube installed already. If you are not replacing this line, then along the line you will see a bulging section, which is a cover. Slide it back, and you will find a connection. Open that connection and the orifice tube will be inside. Definitely replace this if you are not replacing the whole line already.[/quote]
OH shoot! I think that is the one line I decided not to buy. Goodness I think the orifice kit is as expensive as the line alone.
I received the Manifold Hoses (suction & discharge) today and got them installed this evening. Had to pull the lower radiator hose to get it out and of course had more fun with the Ford “quick connects”! I just “love” those Ford quick connects! (NOT!) Anyway, transferred over the pressure switch and something else that looked like either a sight glass or Schrader valve. It was pretty straight-forward.
Tomorrow the Accumulator/Drier is suppose to arrive so I’ll get that installed soon too. That will at least require pulling the washer fluid reservoir/coolant overflow reservoir set. Had that out to replace the washer pump so confident in that part of it.
Not looking forward to pulling the compressor. Looked like I’ll have to pull the PS pump and the alternator just to get to the compressor? Oh what fun! Is there an easier way to do this?
Thanks for the helpful information! I have parts ordered and should have them for the weekend!
Have been looking at new condensers and note that there are three kinds – how do I figure out which style I have? Does it matter? Is one style an improvement on the other styles?
Also I keep seeing orifice repair kits and a few orifices. Where are those located? do I need a new one?
Been thinking I’d try to see if the old compressor still works is there some kind of flush or cleaning I need to do before attempting to put it back in service after being down for years?
Thanks again!
[quote=”Diwhy” post=137782] I think rockauto has some more reasonable choices.
[/quote]
I’d say this from my experience with RockAuto – one needs to watch VERY carefully when ordering there.
1) About the only time one will get them to authorize a return on their nickel is IF they ship the wrong part.
2) Oh sure one CAN return items if you want to pay the shipping cost. But watch – In many cases I have found that I can use a prepaid shipping box or even standard parcel rates that are cheaper than just printing RA’s return label form.
3) If you buy a pair of items from Rock Auto, because you need to replace them in pairs (Like shocks), and they send you one correct part and one incorrect part, they will not take a return on the pair – just the incorrect part. RA will tell you you can still use the correct part. So time wise you now have to WAIT AGAIN for the part and pay shipping all over again or buy it locally at a higher expense.
4) Beware of close-out deals as I think this is stuff they buy wholesale from shops who are whittling down their inventory, and while it might be OK, NOS stuff, there is a chance it is mislabeled.
5) Prices on RA initially look good, but they don’t include shipping and by the time one gets the stuff shipped, in many cases the bargain disappears.
6) Remember, if you have an issue with a part bought locally, one can deal face-to-face with a manager at a store and usually work something out. At RA, “problem resolution” is done solely through email, and it is never the same person who replies to ones follow-up email. So either one gets a resolution with the first email or one gets stuck dealing with a new person with every subsequent email: each new person gives the standard reply as specified in the “customer service” manual, instead of applying a brain and solving the problem.
7) Try working with your local NAPA store especially if you buy a bunch of parts. They discount off list all the time for the pros, so sometimes they’ll give you a bargain or cut you a deal if you ask. Sometimes 10% off is enough to make up for the hassle of waiting on parts to be shipped.What I have found is that RA is a good place to start when looking for parts. I often can get OEM numbers or the names of replacement part manufacturers and their part numbers off the RA site. THEN I plug those numbers into ebay, Amazon and search engines! Since the trend with eBay sellers is to include shipping in the price one can tell right away the total cost delivered. Can’t tell you how many times I have found better bargains on ebay, and even from sellers that are closer to me (less shipping time) than RA.
Just some parts buying thoughts fwiw.
OK, as promised – here are the pictures from the completed repair! Yeah, these are from the “pretty side” where I went overboard in the restoration department.
Thanks again for all of the kind help!
Hey- wanted to report back on my success with this repair! THANKS AGAIN to all who commented and helped!
I ended up replacing both Upper Control Arms (UCAs) and both tie-rod ends (TRE)!
A few notes.
A buddy suggested that I go inside the hood and remove the bolts that mount the UCAs to the car/frame. Boy was this great advice! It would have been murder to try to get the long bolt out of the back of the UCA since the head was practically hidden behind the strut spring. Also, I bought the complete MOOG “problem solver” bushing set for the UCA. I guess one might have been able to drive the bushings out of the old UCA, I tried (for fun & games) and wasn’t able to do it without damaging the bushings. So it looks like a bushing set is the way to go here!
The advice here on where to beat on things (The knuckle where the ball joint goes through) was great advice and worked like a charm! THANKS! Also I used a liberal amount of grease on the bushing, seals, etc when reassembling the UCAs. The only “hard part was the disassembly required under the hood – to move things enough to get to the UCA mounting bolts.
On the tie-rod ends, for me the crux was getting the back-up nut loose. When regular wrenches and PB Blaster failed to get it to more, I applied some heat! (Yeah, the Big Red Wrench) I have upgraded from a propane torch to MAP gas. Still didn’t get things cherry red, but got enough heat to be able to break it open. I think in the process I liquified some of the grease in the TRE ball joint. Since I was replacing the TRE, it didn’t seem an issue. Liberal amounts of never-seize will hopefully make sure this isn’t an issue in the future.
Oh and I bought the TREs that have grease fittings on them. Yeah, I remember the pain of going around on the old ’63 Impala to grease the joints every time I changed the oil. But I have had a BUNCH of ball joints on this car so figured I try something new that might last a bit longer with proper maintenance.
On both the TREs and UCAs another “fun” bit was removal of the cotter pins before the castle nuts. Gotta love such small bits of metal in that environment! Seems designed to rust and get stuck! Had to chase those out with a punch. Me wonders if an application of some lock-tite on the threads might be a wise substitute?
Oh and lastly, I went over board on one side making it “pretty!” Cleared the new UCA ad went wild with POR 15 gloss black on the Knuckle & TRE! I’ll get a picture up one day soon!
Thanks again to all of the kind help here! I am humbled, grateful & indebted!
