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The reason new tires are recommended to go on the rear when purchasing in pairs is not for the reasons that were tested in this video.
Pleas allow me to try and explain.
First:
Several years ago a repair facility that I will not name was sued for wrongful death that resulted from a vehicle that HYDROPLANED in the rear causing the driver to spin out of control and crash. There have been other such lawsuits that have been won since this.Second:
It is ONLY RECOMMENDED placing the new tires on the rear if the tread depth of the tires being kept on the vehicle is UNDER 3/32 of an inch. This is because on WET road surfaces tires that are worn below 3/32 are much more likely to hydroplane. Hydroplaning occurs at speeds ABOVE 35 MPH making it near to impossible to recover from the rear of your car sliding out from behind you. This is in contrast to what you would feel if the front of your car began to hydroplane giving you warning and allowing you to slow down. If the rear goes out it is already too late to recover especially since 35 MPH is the minimum speed that hydroplaning can occur, it is much more likely you will be going 45+ MPH.So to clarify, it is not a snow ice traction thing that is the reason they recommend new tires on the rear of a vehicle. It is a wet curved road hydroplaning at speeds above 35 MPH scenario that is the reason. Also as long as the customer is told of this issue and it is documented that they were aware but still insisted on placing two tires on the front then there shouldn’t be any issue with doing as the customer wants.
I’ve seen this with dry head bolts before, they seem tighter than they really are because they are “sticking” from friction. Try re-torquing the bolts this time lube not only the threads of the bolts but the heads of the bolts and the washers with a light coat of engine oil. Also make sure to chase the threads in the block with a tap and blow out with air. This will allow even torquing without them sticking or popping as they are tightened. Some manufacturers even tell you to do this when torquing head bolts especially torque to yield or stretch bolts.
DO NOT, I REPEAT DO NOT SQUIRT OIL INTO THE BOLT HOLES! This will cause hydro-locking and could crack the block.
From what I’ve read one of two things are happening here.
- You are installing the thermostat backwards and it can’t open because the end that should be in hot coolant isn’t. The end with the spring should be pointed into the engine not the thermostat housing/hose side.
- You aren’t bleeding the air completely out of the cooling system. Invest in a coolant funnel that will attach to the radiator fill, that will help bleed all the air. Some of these also have a bleeder screw somewhere that will get the air out of the upper parts of the system.
[quote=”knookle89″ post=136292]Intake gasket change is alot simpler i hear that Head Gasket. How do I know if the coolant is going into the oil? Besides complete destruction to bearings? My oil changes have been very normal yet far, no discolorations yet. My temperature gauge stays fairly low.
What tools for intake manifold? 1/2 torque wrench ok?[/quote]First indication would be low coolant level. Also look at the oil fill cap and dipstick, check them for milky sludge that will indicate moisture in the oil. The dipstick should not have ANY of what will look like water droplets in the oil. If any of those are true I’d suspect intake gaskets leaking coolant into the oil.
Another quick check is to look where the intake meets the head on the front and rear of the engine. Look for trails of coolant, this will indicate that the gasket has failed enough not only to leak externally but internally as well.
GM has an updated gasket and bolts for these engines. The gasket is all aluminum with rubber seals instead of plastic or thin metal with rubber seals. The bolts have loctite on them but you can also just clean up the old ones with a wire wheel and apply loctite yourself.
You shouldn’t need any special tools to do the intake. 1/2 inch torque wrench is way overkill for this job. At the most you might want to have a 3/8 drive torque wrench for the rocker arm bolts.
Either way from what you are saying in your posts it sounds like your engine is ok and doesn’t suffer from either head gasket issues or the intake gasket problem.
[quote=”MDK22″ post=136290]LOL so biased is this poster. I laughed when I read this crap in Pep Boys. If you have a front engine car the weight will help balder tires and the newer tires in the rear prevent fish tail. Yay everything is good. Now do the same to a rear engine car. You have no engine weight in the front with bald tires which means yay I can’t steer.[/quote]
You Sir are incorrect. If you loose grip on the front tires you will feel it before the turn thus slowing down and gaining control. On the other hand if your rear tires are bald you won’t feel that until it is too late and the rear of your car is sliding out. Watch the video, one car had bad front tires the other bad rear. Which one lost control? If what you say is true then why didn’t the car with the bad front tires drive straight off the track instead of making the turn? This isn’t the only video on You Tube showing this it’s just the only one I could find from an actual tire manufacturer. Discount Tire and Sears Auto center are the only other two I could find.
The other argument I have heard is “The new tires won’t do you any good on the rear if you can’t get moving to begin with.” This obviously is meant with front wheel drive in mind. Personally I would rather not be able to go than to kill a family of four but that’s just how I look at it.
The 4×4 myth. Sorry to burst your bubble but four wheel drive or all wheel drive vehicles act no different than front wheel or rear wheel drive vehicles on ice or while hydroplaning. It doesn’t matter how many wheels have power going to them they are going to slide. The issue is with momentum and centrifugal force that, while taking a curve, is constantly pushing the back of your car towards the outside of the direction you are turning.
[quote=”knookle89″ post=136267]for the autozone page what does “Note the position of the pushrods for assembly” Mean?[/quote]
It means the pushrods in this engine are different lengths. The intake pushrods are shorter than the exhaust.
Also, I have seen more of these engines ruined because the intake gaskets fail causing coolant to get in the oil ruining the bearings. I honestly have only seen one case of this engine having head gasket issues and I think even that was from overheating caused by the intake gaskets failing.
[quote=”Hokiedad4″ post=136268]Common sense? Yes.
Good shop policy? Yes.
State or federal law? Nope.[/quote]
I get that it isn’t a state or federal law, I’ve looked. But if someone has been sued that means there is case law and therefore should be a record. I’ve heard businesses have been sued and forced to pay as much as $10,000,000.00 for putting new tires on the front causing an accident that has resulted in injury or death.
I get why we should put new tires on the rear it is my manager that doesn’t get it. It’s also not that I can’t find ANY information on this subject it is that he won’t accept just any website it has to be a tire manufacturer or stated law. Even though every tech in the shop has agreed with me whenever we discuss it.
Actually after posting this I decided to do a You Tube search and found a video from Michelin about this very subject. I’ll be trying this on him monday.
[video width=425 height=344 type=youtube]oa9hzcjdi5Q[/video]
Anyone have a link to the legal precedence of this? I know it is true but have not been able to find anything “Legal” that states this. I’m asking because I have been fighting with my boss over this very thing. Funny last manager we had I fought with over this and finally convinced him now we have a younger manager and he is one of those that is always rite even if he is wrong types.
I’ve found over the years it is easier to weld a washer to the broken bolt then weld a nut to that washer, if enough of the bolt is sticking out you can just slip a nut over the broken bolt and weld rite to that. By the time you’re done you will have heated the bolt sufficient enough that it will usually back rite out. But if the broken bolt is recessed below the top threads this won’t work and drilling is your only alternative.
Some manufacturers already do this. I know Kia has a system that if a code pops it will notify you and show you the closest Kia dealer. It does NOT however send that code out with freeze frame to get “quotes” but it will allow you to make an appointment with the dealer YOU choose without ever having to call them.
I’m looking for the day when vehicles become auto updating. A lot of fixes for modern vehicles are software updates. There is no reason you car can’t update itself with todays technology. Maybe through bluetooth it could update when you pull onto the dealers lot or into the service drive?
Dan here. Just recently found ETCG1 on youtube. I am a master Kia tech in Indiana and have been a tech for over 25 years. I’ve worked for GM, Cadillac, Nissan, Dodge and Chrysler along with a couple independents in my earlier days before settling where I am now.
Looking forward to being a part of this community.
I can see this going all kinds of messed up. Not only for the consumer but for the business and techs. I work at a dealership and can totally see them putting someone behind a pc to do nothing more than send out quotes. I see this person having little to no experience fixing cars. That being said I ask you this, “Who will loose money if the quote is way below what it should have been?” It certainly isn’t going to be the dealer. I guarantee the techs will take the brunt of loss. Where I work they already drop labor times for techs if the quote gets messed up. They definitely are not going to loose money on the parts side, thats a big no no.
For the consumer and businesses I totally agree with you ETCG1. The consumer will accept the quote, bring the automobile in then get hit with a $3,000 estimate for upsells on top of the original repair quote. This in turn will cause a word of mouth drop in customers for the business.
You can not just quote with only a code and freeze frame data. What about evap leak codes? Is it a gas cap or did the customer just fuel up with the engine running? It could still be a leak in a line or canister. Codes are meant to point us techs to the problem area and or system so that we can better and faster diagnose the cause not so we can see a code and toss parts at the problem. Yes there are techs out there that have seen this or seen that cause this or that code and 80-90% of the time be correct. The problem is they never diagnosed a thing and could still be wrong. Why pay a diagnostic fee if all your mechanic is going to do is guess at the problem?