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P0420 solved. 🙂
My 1999 Chevy Prizm runs so much better. The old catalytic converter wasn’t melted down or blocked up at all, but it had no efficiency what so ever.
The new converter had the P0420 gone in minutes. I took a risk and went up to a 2 1/2 inch to match my supposed cat back of 2 1/2 inches that was really 2 1/4 inches – that was a lot more work.
It worked out. It has more back pressure than the old catalytic converter, the exhaust sounds quieter and has a better flowing sound.
In the end I care more for mpg than anything else, so I’ll report that when I have enough viable data.
My P0446 and P0440 are back so that’s my next problem to finish. I thought, what they hey, that can indicate a minor leak so low and behold the gasket is bad on my gas cap. I’m sure I have solenoid failure so my next item on the agenda is to take the alligator clips I bought and crimp wires in. Take my new little 9V battery and see which solenoid doesn’t click. (I have 2 evap solenoid’s, one under the hood, another next to the canister, and a purge that goes into my intake.
At least seeing my old catalytic converter out I know I don’t appear to have a bad rich condition from my EVAP system.
Next Question
Does anyone know which wires on the solenoids get the 9V juice? Or, where to find out?P0420 solved. 🙂
My 1999 Chevy Prizm runs so much better. The old catalytic converter wasn’t melted down or blocked up at all, but it had no efficiency what so ever.
The new converter had the P0420 gone in minutes. I took a risk and went up to a 2 1/2 inch to match my supposed cat back of 2 1/2 inches that was really 2 1/4 inches – that was a lot more work.
It worked out. It has more back pressure than the old catalytic converter, the exhaust sounds quieter and has a better flowing sound.
In the end I care more for mpg than anything else, so I’ll report that when I have enough viable data.
My P0446 and P0440 are back so that’s my next problem to finish. I thought, what they hey, that can indicate a minor leak so low and behold the gasket is bad on my gas cap. I’m sure I have solenoid failure so my next item on the agenda is to take the alligator clips I bought and crimp wires in. Take my new little 9V battery and see which solenoid doesn’t click. (I have 2 evap solenoid’s, one under the hood, another next to the canister, and a purge that goes into my intake.
At least seeing my old catalytic converter out I know I don’t appear to have a bad rich condition from my EVAP system.
Next Question
Does anyone know which wires on the solenoids get the 9V juice? Or, where to find out?Foreword: (5 days ago but I couldn’t post at the time)
Forgive me if this was more about the process of discovering solutions instead of having specific questions. I have become a lot more sure of myself thanks to writing down here what I’ve gleaned from my forums. And of course Toyota Karl was very helpful too. I appreciated Barneyb’s feedback as well. I hoped that placing all that happened here might help someone in a similar situation. I put it here for all the dozens of forums I’ve traveled on in the last weeks, this is the only one that I wanted a log in for. I believe a lot broke at once so perhaps that buried “the question”.Problem 1 What started as a P0420 became obvious when my engine was choking on its exhaust.
My blue tooth active scan obii device arrived last night and the 2nd o2 sensor is all over the place confirming the bad catalytic converter.Your videos are why I’m sure of this thank you.The 2nd O2 sensor being all over was a little different than your video. Sometimes it’s patterns were opposite of the first O2 sensor and other times it matched. I’m not sure if that means anything more, but regardless the new catalytic converter will be here any day now. (current update, I bought Torque Pro instead of the slower unpaid for android program and it read the active status faster and the first and 2nd 02 pretty much matched confirming the bad cat problem.)
Problem 2 is the EVAP system.
I’m waiting to see what codes come back up now that its all connected and I’ve added not overfilling my tank. Thanks to some answers here I know where to go next to diagnose it.I ‘ll be report back what happens next there.
Problem 3 MAF P0100 and P0101
I think I killed it with MAF cleaner. A new one will be in tomorrow. (current update: when the MAF was replaced my car no longer “choked” so my catalytic converter may have never been severely clogged up, but it’s going in today.)Problem 1 Solution:
When I’m done installing the catalytic converter today I wanted to include what I got from the Eastern website for proper break in procedure. http://www.easterncatalytic.com/education/tech-tips/proper-break-in-can-prevent-future-problems/First I’ll warm up the engine for 5 minutes just letting it idle.
Then I’ll run the engine for 2 minutes at 2,500 rpms.
Finally, I’ll let the catalytic converter cool before driving.…lastly, I’ll get that EVAP system running right ASAP, I know that it can cause the catalytic converter to go if it has been running open too much creating a rich condition (this is probably what finished the catalytic converter off since I installed it just before all of this started.)
Thanks again for all the great videos Eric. Over the last few weeks I’ve developed a firm goal that I’ll become an Automotive Technician. Increasingly, it has been a beloved hobby for 17 years. ETCG1 videos have been of great help too.
Foreword: (5 days ago but I couldn’t post at the time)
Forgive me if this was more about the process of discovering solutions instead of having specific questions. I have become a lot more sure of myself thanks to writing down here what I’ve gleaned from my forums. And of course Toyota Karl was very helpful too. I appreciated Barneyb’s feedback as well. I hoped that placing all that happened here might help someone in a similar situation. I put it here for all the dozens of forums I’ve traveled on in the last weeks, this is the only one that I wanted a log in for. I believe a lot broke at once so perhaps that buried “the question”.Problem 1 What started as a P0420 became obvious when my engine was choking on its exhaust.
My blue tooth active scan obii device arrived last night and the 2nd o2 sensor is all over the place confirming the bad catalytic converter.Your videos are why I’m sure of this thank you.The 2nd O2 sensor being all over was a little different than your video. Sometimes it’s patterns were opposite of the first O2 sensor and other times it matched. I’m not sure if that means anything more, but regardless the new catalytic converter will be here any day now. (current update, I bought Torque Pro instead of the slower unpaid for android program and it read the active status faster and the first and 2nd 02 pretty much matched confirming the bad cat problem.)
Problem 2 is the EVAP system.
I’m waiting to see what codes come back up now that its all connected and I’ve added not overfilling my tank. Thanks to some answers here I know where to go next to diagnose it.I ‘ll be report back what happens next there.
Problem 3 MAF P0100 and P0101
I think I killed it with MAF cleaner. A new one will be in tomorrow. (current update: when the MAF was replaced my car no longer “choked” so my catalytic converter may have never been severely clogged up, but it’s going in today.)Problem 1 Solution:
When I’m done installing the catalytic converter today I wanted to include what I got from the Eastern website for proper break in procedure. http://www.easterncatalytic.com/education/tech-tips/proper-break-in-can-prevent-future-problems/First I’ll warm up the engine for 5 minutes just letting it idle.
Then I’ll run the engine for 2 minutes at 2,500 rpms.
Finally, I’ll let the catalytic converter cool before driving.…lastly, I’ll get that EVAP system running right ASAP, I know that it can cause the catalytic converter to go if it has been running open too much creating a rich condition (this is probably what finished the catalytic converter off since I installed it just before all of this started.)
Thanks again for all the great videos Eric. Over the last few weeks I’ve developed a firm goal that I’ll become an Automotive Technician. Increasingly, it has been a beloved hobby for 17 years. ETCG1 videos have been of great help too.
I live in the U.S. The discovery that it is a 2000 motor was a recent discovery. The car has a rebuilt title and I don’t know if they replaced the ECU/PCM with the engine or not.
A check engine code is what lead me to replace the cam shaft position sensor several months back. A few months ago I noticed a broken wiring harness to an unknown solenoid. 16 hours into trying to find out what it was, let alone who would sell it, I went to the Toyota/Chevrolet dealer in my town and shockingly this part didn’t exist on any of the engine papers.
2 1/2 hours later, with some phone calls for help they found it on engine’s in 2000. It’s simply labeled valve. It’s the valve that runs VVTI though. Note: the valve not running didn’t just affect high rpm performance. It felt like it had high rpm and low rpm modes – my jury rig until the part arrived helped it be energized intermittently and the engine ran rough when under heavy acceleration or at idle depending on which way it was working.
Point is, don’t think this part just helps run the engine when pushed, ignore it and you’ll ruin your valves. 2 weeks into it’s replacement I still occasionally heard valve noises. I’m hoping as they get cleaned up with the fresh oil change that it was gunk and not damage.
I didn’t check engine lights other than after the cam shaft position sensor, I almost wish I had. The whole point in bringing this up was hoping to remember ECU reporting a code or not about the valve to suggest what ECU I had.
Is it possible to assume that since the valve runs at all that I have the right ECU? Pardon they call it PCM on this car.
I live in the U.S. The discovery that it is a 2000 motor was a recent discovery. The car has a rebuilt title and I don’t know if they replaced the ECU/PCM with the engine or not.
A check engine code is what lead me to replace the cam shaft position sensor several months back. A few months ago I noticed a broken wiring harness to an unknown solenoid. 16 hours into trying to find out what it was, let alone who would sell it, I went to the Toyota/Chevrolet dealer in my town and shockingly this part didn’t exist on any of the engine papers.
2 1/2 hours later, with some phone calls for help they found it on engine’s in 2000. It’s simply labeled valve. It’s the valve that runs VVTI though. Note: the valve not running didn’t just affect high rpm performance. It felt like it had high rpm and low rpm modes – my jury rig until the part arrived helped it be energized intermittently and the engine ran rough when under heavy acceleration or at idle depending on which way it was working.
Point is, don’t think this part just helps run the engine when pushed, ignore it and you’ll ruin your valves. 2 weeks into it’s replacement I still occasionally heard valve noises. I’m hoping as they get cleaned up with the fresh oil change that it was gunk and not damage.
I didn’t check engine lights other than after the cam shaft position sensor, I almost wish I had. The whole point in bringing this up was hoping to remember ECU reporting a code or not about the valve to suggest what ECU I had.
Is it possible to assume that since the valve runs at all that I have the right ECU? Pardon they call it PCM on this car.
[quote=”barneyb” post=95721]The only time I found a charcoal canister bad was a high idle event. The screen in the canister had rusted out (I blame ethanol), the little carbon granules had traveled to the carb and sticking out through the ports they blocked the throttle plate.[/quote]
For a long time I ran 87 octane in my car, but as I upgraded the spark plugs and grounding wires I could no longer see any difference in how the car ran with 85 octane. No mpg difference.
I used to get more mpg with 87, but had found 91 different.
Now that there is consistently more ethanol here in Utah, I switched back up to 87 and performance went up. I believe it has less to no ethanol? Honesty in reporting for what is in gasoline is severely lacking in the current industry.
[quote=”barneyb” post=95721]The only time I found a charcoal canister bad was a high idle event. The screen in the canister had rusted out (I blame ethanol), the little carbon granules had traveled to the carb and sticking out through the ports they blocked the throttle plate.[/quote]
For a long time I ran 87 octane in my car, but as I upgraded the spark plugs and grounding wires I could no longer see any difference in how the car ran with 85 octane. No mpg difference.
I used to get more mpg with 87, but had found 91 different.
Now that there is consistently more ethanol here in Utah, I switched back up to 87 and performance went up. I believe it has less to no ethanol? Honesty in reporting for what is in gasoline is severely lacking in the current industry.
[quote=”ToyotaKarl” post=95749]There are so many things I can say about the MAF and the codes (particularly P0420, which this car is known for), and the intake, and upstream and downstream sensors…….. But I seriously cannot understand if the OP is asking or telling….
Simply stated, the reason the Corolla/Prism between 1998 and 2002 throws the P0420 is that the software to detect the downstream O2 sensor was set to trip it too easily… Gen 9 Corollas had the similar problem and there was a TSB for a re-flash of the ECU to fix this…. Gen 8 (1998-2002) never got a re-flash…
-Karl[/quote]
Yes, I had just checked with a knowledgeable Toyota/Chevy tech, no reflash available for my ECU. Since I have a 1999 vehicle with a 2000 LSI engine in it that had significantly more horse power does anyone think that maybe I need a 2000 ECU? Or did they just leave it the same despite the more powerful engine. (I looked it up on Rock Auto, they sale a different PCM for the 2000 than they did the 1999.) At $470 though…the old one sure hasn’t beat me up much….
I’ve read differing no.’s but I went to official sources and got on the 2000:
125-hp @ 5,600 rpm
Torque
122 lbs.-ft. @ 4,400 rpmA bit more than the 1999, which is mentioned at 120 hp @ 5600 rpm. And 122 ft-lbs. @ 4400 rpm.
Note: I brought this up as point arguing for possibly a new PCM, but the difference in HP is much smaller than I thought…there probably is a difference in the PCM’s, but I wouldn’t know what it’d do.
[quote=”ToyotaKarl” post=95749]
The problem is the Cat… But not the cat… As they can still function at 90% efficiency and still throw this code… The problem is not O2 sensors (unless you are using Bosch)…..
-Karl[/quote]
Thank you, I’ve had P0420 come up occasionally before, but I cleared it and it wouldn’t come back. Recently it kept coming back until the physical symptoms showed up.
Thank you for this, I’ve heard a lot of bad about BOSCH O2 sensors in many forums. My upstream 90k ago replacement was by Bosch. I got a 3-4 mpg boost out of it so it seemed okay to me…but if they have a bad reputation and it is old . . . A couple more pay checks and I’ll replace it too to be on the safe side. Now you have me worried about my mom’s 1999 Mercury Sable, I just replaced her catalytic converters as they were leaking and replaced the 02 sensors to be careful while I was at it. With . . . don don don, Bosch. Before the new cats went in the upstream 02 sensors had already made the car run a lot better.
You/anyone in the group recommend another brand or do I just need to go OE from Toyota? I’m sure my down stream o2 sensor is original. Replace it too? Or worry more after my live OBD II scanner comes in the mail so I can report more clearly about what it’s doing?
[quote=”ToyotaKarl” post=95749]There are so many things I can say about the MAF and the codes (particularly P0420, which this car is known for), and the intake, and upstream and downstream sensors…….. But I seriously cannot understand if the OP is asking or telling….
Simply stated, the reason the Corolla/Prism between 1998 and 2002 throws the P0420 is that the software to detect the downstream O2 sensor was set to trip it too easily… Gen 9 Corollas had the similar problem and there was a TSB for a re-flash of the ECU to fix this…. Gen 8 (1998-2002) never got a re-flash…
-Karl[/quote]
Yes, I had just checked with a knowledgeable Toyota/Chevy tech, no reflash available for my ECU. Since I have a 1999 vehicle with a 2000 LSI engine in it that had significantly more horse power does anyone think that maybe I need a 2000 ECU? Or did they just leave it the same despite the more powerful engine. (I looked it up on Rock Auto, they sale a different PCM for the 2000 than they did the 1999.) At $470 though…the old one sure hasn’t beat me up much….
I’ve read differing no.’s but I went to official sources and got on the 2000:
125-hp @ 5,600 rpm
Torque
122 lbs.-ft. @ 4,400 rpmA bit more than the 1999, which is mentioned at 120 hp @ 5600 rpm. And 122 ft-lbs. @ 4400 rpm.
Note: I brought this up as point arguing for possibly a new PCM, but the difference in HP is much smaller than I thought…there probably is a difference in the PCM’s, but I wouldn’t know what it’d do.
[quote=”ToyotaKarl” post=95749]
The problem is the Cat… But not the cat… As they can still function at 90% efficiency and still throw this code… The problem is not O2 sensors (unless you are using Bosch)…..
-Karl[/quote]
Thank you, I’ve had P0420 come up occasionally before, but I cleared it and it wouldn’t come back. Recently it kept coming back until the physical symptoms showed up.
Thank you for this, I’ve heard a lot of bad about BOSCH O2 sensors in many forums. My upstream 90k ago replacement was by Bosch. I got a 3-4 mpg boost out of it so it seemed okay to me…but if they have a bad reputation and it is old . . . A couple more pay checks and I’ll replace it too to be on the safe side. Now you have me worried about my mom’s 1999 Mercury Sable, I just replaced her catalytic converters as they were leaking and replaced the 02 sensors to be careful while I was at it. With . . . don don don, Bosch. Before the new cats went in the upstream 02 sensors had already made the car run a lot better.
You/anyone in the group recommend another brand or do I just need to go OE from Toyota? I’m sure my down stream o2 sensor is original. Replace it too? Or worry more after my live OBD II scanner comes in the mail so I can report more clearly about what it’s doing?
Thank you ToyotaKarl, I’ve noticed you be helpful on many threads and you have certainly added to my learning.
You got me thinking about two things, since my car is obviously suddenly choked up, I’m not throwing the P0420 code anymore, but like I need it, it’s really obvious clogged up at this point.
LOL, I bet since it’s clogged, the 2nd 02 sensor is happy with what is getting through. What little gets through is certainly hot enough to be burned up enough.
My primary concern isn’t about if I replace the catalytic converter anymore, it’s about what damaged it in the first place to not have to simply replace it again. And while reading your comments, it struck me. In 2007 I tried an experiment where you put 1 to 4 ounces of acetone in your gasoline. It reduces the surface tension of the gasoline and can improve efficiency.
True story, it really does work, so far I only see it work on V6’s and up. J&D Power associates gave an award out for how brilliant the fuel injectors are on this car, and it was already perfectly calibrated to fuel so it was a terrible idea. I got 5-7 mpg for about a tank. My next tank I got 17 and then 23 and 27 were starting to be possible again in a few weeks (really poor for this car even in city only driving.)
Edit: my article about Acetone in Gasoline.
I had some symptoms at the time that were similar to now. I think the catalytic converter mostly recovered and I didn’t have any check engine code on it or symptoms for many years to come, but this is why I think my catalytic converter didn’t last the life of the car.
That covers idea 1 that I got going thanks to you.
Idea 2:
It dawned on me that I had the habit of over filling my gasoline tank. I figured, who cares, for the last 9 years my EVAP system was dead anyway. Last couple weeks I stopped since I’m trying to repair the EVAP system with all that was mentioned on my start of this thread. I think my EVAP system is fine now, I just had to stop overfilling now that I expect this system to work. 🙂Thank you ToyotaKarl, I’ve noticed you be helpful on many threads and you have certainly added to my learning.
You got me thinking about two things, since my car is obviously suddenly choked up, I’m not throwing the P0420 code anymore, but like I need it, it’s really obvious clogged up at this point.
LOL, I bet since it’s clogged, the 2nd 02 sensor is happy with what is getting through. What little gets through is certainly hot enough to be burned up enough.
My primary concern isn’t about if I replace the catalytic converter anymore, it’s about what damaged it in the first place to not have to simply replace it again. And while reading your comments, it struck me. In 2007 I tried an experiment where you put 1 to 4 ounces of acetone in your gasoline. It reduces the surface tension of the gasoline and can improve efficiency.
True story, it really does work, so far I only see it work on V6’s and up. J&D Power associates gave an award out for how brilliant the fuel injectors are on this car, and it was already perfectly calibrated to fuel so it was a terrible idea. I got 5-7 mpg for about a tank. My next tank I got 17 and then 23 and 27 were starting to be possible again in a few weeks (really poor for this car even in city only driving.)
Edit: my article about Acetone in Gasoline.
I had some symptoms at the time that were similar to now. I think the catalytic converter mostly recovered and I didn’t have any check engine code on it or symptoms for many years to come, but this is why I think my catalytic converter didn’t last the life of the car.
That covers idea 1 that I got going thanks to you.
Idea 2:
It dawned on me that I had the habit of over filling my gasoline tank. I figured, who cares, for the last 9 years my EVAP system was dead anyway. Last couple weeks I stopped since I’m trying to repair the EVAP system with all that was mentioned on my start of this thread. I think my EVAP system is fine now, I just had to stop overfilling now that I expect this system to work. 🙂Quoting myself, sorry lost some of my post on another forum that only lets you post for $20 bucks and I lost track of where I was: “3 Weeks apart to get a total of about 100k+ miles since I replaced it at about 65k miles. (back when I thought the codes told you exactly what to do, lol)”
I was talking about how I cleaned the MAF twice 3 weeks apart and let it dry over night before driving again. My maf cleaner recommends cleaning every air filter change, but no more than 10 shots of fluid at a time…maybe I was too careful, but I had to clean it twice to have it clean – only the spray touched it, but I worry if I’ve killed my MAF as it now codes without even starting the car on. P0100 and P0101. Since it wasn’t broken dirty I now wonder if it was better off with some oily looking fibers on it from my old K&N Air Filter. Corollas are famous for having dying MAF’s. I know everyone says original Toyota is the way to go
I replaced the MAF about 100k+ miles ago. I’m now at 165k miles. I replaced the pre catalyitc converter o2 sensor about the same time and my post catalyitc converter has probably never been replaced – bought this car at 40k miles and for a car “I’m in love” I’m going to learn plenty of technician things on it and keep it going. 🙂
According to one of the fancier deeper functions on the Actron or at the Oreilly’s scan code machine, my o2 sensor is fine, it’s just reporting the problem.
Things that are next on my check list to check:
Check the Vapor canister vent solenoid (location is on the canister) for if it’s closed, do I use a 9 volt battery to hear it pop open?
Check the nearly identical looking vapor canister purge valve which is under the hood and hooks to my intake system after the throttle plate. I blew on it, it is closed, but I’m not sure if opens either.Note Camry’s and Corollas of this year both have 3 part evap systems instead of 2. I have another part, name forgotten that puts fumes in before the MAF. This was what was disconnected before this all started. Hooked it up and the ECU system exploded (not being literal, lol)
Quoting myself, sorry lost some of my post on another forum that only lets you post for $20 bucks and I lost track of where I was: “3 Weeks apart to get a total of about 100k+ miles since I replaced it at about 65k miles. (back when I thought the codes told you exactly what to do, lol)”
I was talking about how I cleaned the MAF twice 3 weeks apart and let it dry over night before driving again. My maf cleaner recommends cleaning every air filter change, but no more than 10 shots of fluid at a time…maybe I was too careful, but I had to clean it twice to have it clean – only the spray touched it, but I worry if I’ve killed my MAF as it now codes without even starting the car on. P0100 and P0101. Since it wasn’t broken dirty I now wonder if it was better off with some oily looking fibers on it from my old K&N Air Filter. Corollas are famous for having dying MAF’s. I know everyone says original Toyota is the way to go
I replaced the MAF about 100k+ miles ago. I’m now at 165k miles. I replaced the pre catalyitc converter o2 sensor about the same time and my post catalyitc converter has probably never been replaced – bought this car at 40k miles and for a car “I’m in love” I’m going to learn plenty of technician things on it and keep it going. 🙂
According to one of the fancier deeper functions on the Actron or at the Oreilly’s scan code machine, my o2 sensor is fine, it’s just reporting the problem.
Things that are next on my check list to check:
Check the Vapor canister vent solenoid (location is on the canister) for if it’s closed, do I use a 9 volt battery to hear it pop open?
Check the nearly identical looking vapor canister purge valve which is under the hood and hooks to my intake system after the throttle plate. I blew on it, it is closed, but I’m not sure if opens either.Note Camry’s and Corollas of this year both have 3 part evap systems instead of 2. I have another part, name forgotten that puts fumes in before the MAF. This was what was disconnected before this all started. Hooked it up and the ECU system exploded (not being literal, lol)
[quote=”barneyb” post=95428]
One of the problems for a DIYer is the mess. An automatic transmission bleeds like a large dying animal as you disassemble. [/quote]Okay, I’m all about the serious learning because I simply love auto repair. Your truthful, yet incredibly funny comment was not only wonderful, but easily translated to my wife. We laughed thank you.