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[quote=”FourRings” post=62701]i just don’t want to end up in cubicle at Motorola designing a keypad for a phone and being surrounded by hundreds of others performing some similar brain numbing task.[/quote]
That would be my worst nightmare, indeed! I had a bit of office work experience in my life (dealership owners wanted to train me into service manager so I started with doing warranty claims and all that) and it was much, much worse than any workshop I was in. Minutes turned into hours, literally.
I am thinking about getting an engineering degree, may be some sort of online course (mechatronics seems like something good for me), so I can get into service / field engineer sort of job. I am about to build a house with seriously big garage / workshop with lift so I can still save a huge money on maintaining my own vehicles and may be do some occasional side work for cash or buy and fix broken cars for resale.[quote=”twiggy02919″ post=65228]You are exactly right. In a free market as we have here the going salary will always be what the employers can workers to settle for.[/quote]
It is not just employers who at fault. Essentially its customers who are spoiled with choice of so many techs around. If customer can get just a repair in one place and repair + free inspection + free car wash + coupon for free all changes – where would he go? And then guess who will do all the free shit?[quote=”twiggy02919″ post=65228]You are exactly right. In a free market as we have here the going salary will always be what the employers can workers to settle for.[/quote]
It is not just employers who at fault. Essentially its customers who are spoiled with choice of so many techs around. If customer can get just a repair in one place and repair + free inspection + free car wash + coupon for free all changes – where would he go? And then guess who will do all the free shit?See, there is a need for a good, experienced guys, I can’t deny that. In some cases they can even make a good living (well, I would say I was doing at good average or above that most of the time and right now I am rather optimistic about near future). But for young guys this must be very hard. I am lucky I have skipped my first 10 years running my own shop and ditched it right before that business (car alarms) collapsed in that particular country. So I was making in best years like three to five times more money then average tech salary then there was, feeling myself almost rich. And at the same time I have built up experience and knowledge in friendliest possible environment – my own place. When I had to face what Eric called “Dealership Politics” I was already so good that getting my place under the sun was an easy task.
If I would be able to start my life over again, I would not go into Motor Industry again. I had a strong interest to two things when I was young boy after the school – cars and computers. I am trying to convince myself otherwise, but the truth is – I made a poor choice. Being an IT guy I could be a software architect by now (I was excellent in maths and even had some experience in programming in school years) and have a better pay, way less stress and way better health. OK, not having to pay crazy bills for repairing my cars or for leasing them is sort of leveling up pay issue, may be I would even be more stressed in office environment (had a bit of that in my life – it was a nightmare!), but bad health – that is definitely where I have lost.See, there is a need for a good, experienced guys, I can’t deny that. In some cases they can even make a good living (well, I would say I was doing at good average or above that most of the time and right now I am rather optimistic about near future). But for young guys this must be very hard. I am lucky I have skipped my first 10 years running my own shop and ditched it right before that business (car alarms) collapsed in that particular country. So I was making in best years like three to five times more money then average tech salary then there was, feeling myself almost rich. And at the same time I have built up experience and knowledge in friendliest possible environment – my own place. When I had to face what Eric called “Dealership Politics” I was already so good that getting my place under the sun was an easy task.
If I would be able to start my life over again, I would not go into Motor Industry again. I had a strong interest to two things when I was young boy after the school – cars and computers. I am trying to convince myself otherwise, but the truth is – I made a poor choice. Being an IT guy I could be a software architect by now (I was excellent in maths and even had some experience in programming in school years) and have a better pay, way less stress and way better health. OK, not having to pay crazy bills for repairing my cars or for leasing them is sort of leveling up pay issue, may be I would even be more stressed in office environment (had a bit of that in my life – it was a nightmare!), but bad health – that is definitely where I have lost.Surely not always. But say getting a service cart or (like I am doing) having a smaller toolbox rather than some fancy Snap-On 72″ monster that you can roll around the car and put tools down in or on it certainly helps. I am surprised to see that practically no one does it. While working in Europe we used not to have own stalls and big toolboxes were rather too expensive (setup that I can buy in Costco for 700 bucks would cost close to 4000 in Europe!), so techs are pretty mobile in terms of moving toolboxes around the shop. So why just not have a toolbox right beside me while I am working? It really helps. Even if you do some interior work and can’t reach toolbox from inside the car, get a small tool tray and throw all your stuff into it every time. It is much harder to forget whole tool tray than single screwdriver.
Surely not always. But say getting a service cart or (like I am doing) having a smaller toolbox rather than some fancy Snap-On 72″ monster that you can roll around the car and put tools down in or on it certainly helps. I am surprised to see that practically no one does it. While working in Europe we used not to have own stalls and big toolboxes were rather too expensive (setup that I can buy in Costco for 700 bucks would cost close to 4000 in Europe!), so techs are pretty mobile in terms of moving toolboxes around the shop. So why just not have a toolbox right beside me while I am working? It really helps. Even if you do some interior work and can’t reach toolbox from inside the car, get a small tool tray and throw all your stuff into it every time. It is much harder to forget whole tool tray than single screwdriver.
I am working on making myself a strong habit to never ever put a tool onto any part of the car. If I am not holding a tool in my hand it should land down on my toolbox, service cart, on the floor or in the pocket. Never in the car. Still not 100% at doing that but I have very few lost / forgotten tools since I started to train myself in this direction.
I am working on making myself a strong habit to never ever put a tool onto any part of the car. If I am not holding a tool in my hand it should land down on my toolbox, service cart, on the floor or in the pocket. Never in the car. Still not 100% at doing that but I have very few lost / forgotten tools since I started to train myself in this direction.
I’m obviously Andrew. Started just like Eric in 1996 :-). First was making my living installing alarms, some audio and electrical repairs for 10 years in my own small shop (just me and for a brief period another young guy whom I paid small percentage). This experience helped me a lot to become later a diagnostic tech in dealership (about a year of learning curve to get into all that, surely still learning like every day). As pay was not up to my (may be too high?) expectations I started to do more and more side work. Was about to start my own proper shop (as opposed to working at garage at home) but got job offer from Canadians. Here for a year now, still not sure if it was a right move, money at first were… well, just not impressive at all. Now it is got better but I would say job is not as interesting as it used to be. I am a lot into diagnostics and electrical side of the business but flat rate system is not in favor for it. Quick wrench turning pays better so that is what I am doing now mostly. Thinking about leaving automotive or starting own shop, or even both (some stable job for money and some small business with cars for pleasure and satisfaction)
I’m obviously Andrew. Started just like Eric in 1996 :-). First was making my living installing alarms, some audio and electrical repairs for 10 years in my own small shop (just me and for a brief period another young guy whom I paid small percentage). This experience helped me a lot to become later a diagnostic tech in dealership (about a year of learning curve to get into all that, surely still learning like every day). As pay was not up to my (may be too high?) expectations I started to do more and more side work. Was about to start my own proper shop (as opposed to working at garage at home) but got job offer from Canadians. Here for a year now, still not sure if it was a right move, money at first were… well, just not impressive at all. Now it is got better but I would say job is not as interesting as it used to be. I am a lot into diagnostics and electrical side of the business but flat rate system is not in favor for it. Quick wrench turning pays better so that is what I am doing now mostly. Thinking about leaving automotive or starting own shop, or even both (some stable job for money and some small business with cars for pleasure and satisfaction)
OK, I am moved from Europe not so long ago. They do not have flat rate system over there but I did not find it being exactly good for me. Most important it is hard to proof that you worth to pay you more if you a good, doing a quality work and doing it fast. If you work in small shops were your presence is important (say I was the most productive, I was the only guy who able to solve ANY problem) you can negotiate yourself slightly better pay rate. But that’s it, you are still paid less then almost any other industrial/technical job. And that’is in good times, when economy turned belly up shop owners considered I gotta be happy just having a job, because others got laid off altogether.
What kept me going and doing rather well its becoming a self-employed subcontractor (still on hourly pay but I did not have to stay at work when there is nothing to do like an employees, got some little increase in hourly pay in exchange for not having paid holidays and most importantly – quite a good tax reliefs). So when I have done all the work for today at dealership I could load my toolboxes in a van and bring them home to do side work at much better rate then at the dealer. Unfortunately I did not have enough of it to stay home full time at the moment.
At the moment when I got a job offer from overseas and here I am working on flat rate now. Not too much different from doing side jobs in terms that you paid what you worth. Say I am making three times more than guy who has less experience and can’t work fast, not just 20% more like in Europe. BUT, and this is a big “but” here. I do not feel like I have to do diagnostics for free, I never did that for my own customers. Heck, if you figure how to sell it (that’s a separate topic) diagnostics is your gold mine! I do not agree that I have to do MPi for free. My knowledge, experience, expertise and professional advice about customer’s vehicle worth money. If dealer wants to play competition game and attract customers by giving that away for free – they can. BUT THEY STILL HAVE TO PAY ME FOR MY TIME! If there is no time set for operation (diagnostics is an obvious example) pay me straight time. If manufacturer says they only pay .5 hour for any diag or don’t pay at all or insists on free inspections or pay reduced hours for jobs – it is not my problem. I did not sign that dealer agreement with manufacturer or distributor, I got a job from dealership owner and he is the one who should pay me and cover the difference from his own pocket, not mine. I am not the one who gets like 25 – 60% discount on parts and new vehicles, who benefits from financing deals and from selling oils in big volume. Dealership owner makes good money on all that, he gets biggest chunk of what customer pays for MY LABOUR, so if after all that he want’s to rob me – he must be shut down (and I don’t care to lose the job, customers and broken cars are still out there!)OK, I am moved from Europe not so long ago. They do not have flat rate system over there but I did not find it being exactly good for me. Most important it is hard to proof that you worth to pay you more if you a good, doing a quality work and doing it fast. If you work in small shops were your presence is important (say I was the most productive, I was the only guy who able to solve ANY problem) you can negotiate yourself slightly better pay rate. But that’s it, you are still paid less then almost any other industrial/technical job. And that’is in good times, when economy turned belly up shop owners considered I gotta be happy just having a job, because others got laid off altogether.
What kept me going and doing rather well its becoming a self-employed subcontractor (still on hourly pay but I did not have to stay at work when there is nothing to do like an employees, got some little increase in hourly pay in exchange for not having paid holidays and most importantly – quite a good tax reliefs). So when I have done all the work for today at dealership I could load my toolboxes in a van and bring them home to do side work at much better rate then at the dealer. Unfortunately I did not have enough of it to stay home full time at the moment.
At the moment when I got a job offer from overseas and here I am working on flat rate now. Not too much different from doing side jobs in terms that you paid what you worth. Say I am making three times more than guy who has less experience and can’t work fast, not just 20% more like in Europe. BUT, and this is a big “but” here. I do not feel like I have to do diagnostics for free, I never did that for my own customers. Heck, if you figure how to sell it (that’s a separate topic) diagnostics is your gold mine! I do not agree that I have to do MPi for free. My knowledge, experience, expertise and professional advice about customer’s vehicle worth money. If dealer wants to play competition game and attract customers by giving that away for free – they can. BUT THEY STILL HAVE TO PAY ME FOR MY TIME! If there is no time set for operation (diagnostics is an obvious example) pay me straight time. If manufacturer says they only pay .5 hour for any diag or don’t pay at all or insists on free inspections or pay reduced hours for jobs – it is not my problem. I did not sign that dealer agreement with manufacturer or distributor, I got a job from dealership owner and he is the one who should pay me and cover the difference from his own pocket, not mine. I am not the one who gets like 25 – 60% discount on parts and new vehicles, who benefits from financing deals and from selling oils in big volume. Dealership owner makes good money on all that, he gets biggest chunk of what customer pays for MY LABOUR, so if after all that he want’s to rob me – he must be shut down (and I don’t care to lose the job, customers and broken cars are still out there!)