You know what makes me mad?

[jacobnbr1]

It is when I tell a guy to do something based on manufacturer procedure and he thinks he can short cut around not what I said but what the manufacturer of the vehicle advised to do.
Listen up!
If you get an older veteran mechanic that tells you a procedure to follow is usually because he was once there and knows there isn’t a shorter way except for guessing and assumptions of which will get you burned, make a profitable job not so profitable,cause more troubles and aggravation for everyone in the shop.

Perform the flow sheet as outlined and gather the evidence and make a conclusion based on the evidence that has been provided by the manufacturer of the vehicle.
You might actually guess and get it right a couple times but guessing and assumptions is only going to drive customers away, render the community consensus that the shop by name does not know what they are doing, and cause the owner of the shop to give up.

In this particular case was an 07 ford f150 with a 5.4 that had a complaint of ‘lacks power and bogs on acceleration’ the customer thinks the fuel pump is bad.
The conclusion of the technician is the fuel pump has failed based on fuel pressure specifications alone being less than what the manual states.
This vehicle is a return-less fuel system that only supplies fuel as needed based on data input pids of sensors provided to the pcm for management.
What else could go wrong?
Example..
One of the sensors has malfunctioned and the lack of fuel pressure is a direct result of pcm command because the pcm has received faulty information and has reduced the rpm count of the pump.
A voltage drop exists at the pump driver and there is only 9 volts provided to the pump circuit instead of 12.6-13.8.
There is a 26 step process that must be utilized before a conclusion can be met and the only thing that can shorten the process is if you find a problem on step three and that corrects the problem.

The real slap in the face is when you have all the high tech bi-directional scan tools to aid the process and plenty of resource information database systems where information and procedure can be found but the guy is too lazy to use it and takes a guess at what is wrong.

Topic

[SpawnedX]

I can see that being very frustrating and generally I agree, listen to senior and veteran techs, they generally speak from experience. You should never look for shortcuts, but sometimes you can find more efficient ways to do things. This clearly not one of those times.

[jacobnbr1]

There actually is a shortcut to use but you have to log into motorcraft service dot com and plug in the VIN before you can even find out what the short cut is.

So I had to step out for a while and I instructed him to trouble shoot the problem and I get back there this truck is with the tank out and a new 400.00 fuel pump sitting on the bench with one element of evidence it is bad.
When I asked for the conclusion procedure I was directed to the spec sheet on alldata where you had to completely bypass all the notes about the system being variable pump, re-turnless with an external pump driver to control the system.

Really? I had the short cut pulled up in like half a minute including the failure % rate of pumps on that style truck vs’s pump drivers, wiring etc.

He has a 20% chance that guess was right and I have a 50% chance it is a wiring issue + a 25% chance it is a controller driver. The other 5% is for a relay or pcm problem but that isn’t going to prove out cause the pump did actually run which of course means those two things are working.

This guy has been with me for a while and seems the longer the trouble tree is the more likely he will make a guess and not follow throughW-|

[3SheetsDiesel]

I’ve been in similar situations in the past. I’ve decided that I’m simply going to give people advice, and then let them follow my recommendations, or simply not follow my recommendations. One of those situations that stands out in my mind happened shortly after I was hired by the company I currently work for. One of the tire changers was getting ready to put tires on a Range Rover with air suspension. When one of those trucks is lifted, you have to keep the suspension loaded or else the bags will be seriously damaged. I told the tire changer as much. One of the salesmen (who doesn’t know his butt from a hole in the ground) said “No, I called the dealer and they said that you just have to turn the key off and take it out of the ignition and it’ll be fine”. So, the tire changer set the lift under the frame of the truck, lifted it up, and proceeded to pop both rear airbags. I just laughed at their failure. The suspension did exactly what I said it would do, but as I tend to say an awful lot at work “I’m jsut a mechanic, what do I know?”

[dreamer2355]

Yep, im not a fan of people who do not trouble shoot problems even after there given quality advice.

And it frustrates me more that people throw parts at vehicles in aid to fix them without proper diagnosing there symptoms and issues.

I hope one day to be under the instruction of a tech like Jacob who clearly is passionate for succeeding with his repairs through the example given above.

I understand i do not know everything, nor claim to or ever will, but im never afraid to ask for help no matter how silly or far fetched the question is, same too with advice from people.

@3SheetsDiesel – What is the correct procedure for replacing tires on those Range Rovers without popping there suspension air bags?

[3SheetsDiesel]

The correct procedure to lifting an air sprung Range Rover is to keep the suspension loaded. There are notches in the lower control arms designed for having a jack put into them to keep the weight of the body on the tops of the air bags. You can also use a floor jack under LCAs like you would with a Blazer of similar when checking ball joints. At the shop I was working at when the bags were blown out, I told them to put it on the second alignment rack and to place the swing jacks under the axles. I almost feel sorry for the owner of that particular Range Rover though. The closest Land Rover dealer to Manassas VA is in Richmond (I think), which means he had to drive almost 2 hours on the bumpstops to have the ‘bags replaced. My shop would up paying for them in the end.

[Matt]

After I graduate from my degree program, I truly hope I end up in a shop with a dude like you 3Sheets.

[Matt]

After I graduate from my degree program, I truly hope I end up in a shop with a dude like you 3Sheets. Or jacob, don’t want to leave him out, he’s already helped me out quite a bit.

Edit: Sorry for the double post, dunno how that happened.

[3SheetsDiesel]

Thanks for the compliment Beefy. Hopefully you’ll have someone who can show you the most efficient way to fix cars, but I also hope that they’ll let you make your own mistakes. That’s the best way to learn if you ask me. I have a simple rule that I use when I’m teaching someone how to do something. Mistakes are tolerated, so long as they are not repeated.

[Salpta]

Quoted From jacobnbr1:

…Rant…

Dad?!

[jacobnbr1]

I will post an update when this case study is over.

All I can say at this point is the guess was wrong and the problem is very much still alive.

There has been chaos in the shop and and the appointment schedule is way off track due to this event.

[jacobnbr1]

Here is an update on this topic.

Friday after the ‘Guess’ and after the fuel pump (400.00) was installed the vehicle still had 17lbs of fuel pressure and would hardly run so I once again pointed to the 26 step diagnostic flow sheet and walked away.

Tuesday the tech just really hasn’t a clue where to go with this thing and dreaded the thought of the flow sheet, takes another suggestion from a buddy that works in another shop and decides to replace the remote mount fuel pump driver (cost 105.00) to no avail the truck still runs like poop. The tech then stated he thought the converters were clogged. (Holy cow dude, Based on what evidence?)

Today I came in and told him to do nothing but watch me perform the diagnostic flow sheet armed with nothing more than the factory flow sheet and on step 3 I had already confirmed the health of the other components that he thought were bad and on step 5 I found the evidence I was looking for, and that evidence was that the injection rail pressure sensor reads 65 psi when the mechanical gauge reads 17psi and the flow sheet says if the reading from the sensor is inconsistent with mechanical pressure to replace the fuel rail pressure sensor (87.00).

Bingo!!! Truck came alive and pressure came up to spec.

Problem solved and I had less than two hours troubleshoot to repair.
The pcm thought the fuel pump was delivering 65psi of pressure and reduced the flow output to retract the pressure but in actual it was reducing the pressure where the engine would starve for fuel.

Glad it is fixed but this dude seriously needs to get with the program and do his due diligence!

[dreamer2355]

Awesome job in schooling the new tech, although im baffled as to why he isn’t following your advice nor the diagnostic material given to him?

What was his reaction after you fixed the issue? I would have paid to see his facial expressions.

Also how did this tech gain employment at your shop just out of curiosity.

Hope you have a better day tomorrow!

[jacobnbr1]

He gained employment by my approval being he came from a reputable GM dealer.

When he first started out I never gave him the chance at Diagnostics because his role was to make the repairs that I command based on my diagnostics which means he got lazy about testing and spoiled of only parts changing.

I realize that may sound odd but it keeps my diagnostic skills sharp plus works really well in my shop.

He wasn’t all that surprised as he already knows there isn’t anyone better at fixing a complex problem other than me. He says ‘You remind me of one of them field engineer big wigs that GM sends out to fix the hard problem no one else can’

Anyway, I figured since we was so slow and all that he could follow a simple trouble tree because I know for sure he had to do this at the dealer where he worked and they gave good input about him but due to their being slow they had to let him go.

[dreamer2355]

Well thats good you at least gave him an opportunity.

Do you train other techs there so they can be on the same skill level as you as well as showing them your thought process of trouble shooting?

[jacobnbr1]

I do It for anyone who has an ear to hear.

I’m not going to live for ever and soon I will retire so I want these guys to know this stuff.

There is a couple merges in the industry going on right now like IT and mechanics =’s IT-Tech and Locksmith and Mechanic =’s Vehicle Security Specialist or Certified Automotive Locksmith. In a good auto shop we are going to have to do it all and that day is coming soon to a shop near you.

[Author]

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