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Many of you will rant about this one.. lol
https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/gm-ford-others-want-working-own-car-illegal-160000229.html
Yep.. Unbelievable.
[rant]
Thoughts? Personally, I think this will go like SOPA, and I hope it does. This would put a lot of tuner shops out of business. Secondly, if you’re going to the extreme of flashing your own ECU, you’re most likely a motor head that’s doing something serious (turbo, cat delete, etc…) That being said, you probably know what you’re doing and know how to regain control in the event that the engine went WOT..The whole thing is just stupid to me. If I’m borrowing, it best be free……. In that case, yes I can understand it. Lease? Yes I can understand it again. But if I’m the one making the payments? Hah. Yeah, I’ll just, do what I want with it…
[/rant]Eric rant inbound on this one.? ha.
If this is a re-post or wrong section, I apologize..
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I can’t see this going anywhere especially since both MA and NJ have passed “Right to Repair” Laws recently which means that auto manufacturers starting 2018 basically have to give vehicle owners or independent shop what they need to repair the vehicles.
More info here:
We just recently had a thread on this very mattter: http://www.ericthecarguy.com/kunena/4-General-Automotive-Discussion/57623-making-working-on-your-own-car-illegal
In reality, such things would never fly with the public. As for me, My John Deere is 70s and my Chevy Truck is 70s. So what technology is “licensed” to me? Nada. There is no software, no transistors, no modules.
“Those willing to trade freedom for security deserve neither”-Benjamin Franklin
I found it hilarious that John Deere claims people will pirate music with a tractor. Yeah, because nobody owns computers or smartphones huh?
I think politicians know fully well that if they supported something like this, especially when the right to repair legislation was so well received, that they would be demonized by the voters. It would be obvious to all that some greedy corporations are having the audacity to say that despite shelling out over $40,000 for a new car full of overseas parts and quality problems that you don’t actually own it.
With the huge amount on integrated tech they are putting into new cars, especially with the online access systems, maybe they need to start looking at spending their time and money on keeping them safe from hackers. Wouldn’t that be a great move for terrorists to gain control of say, OnStar and shut down everyone in the middle of the road? While they are at it lock them into the car and keep them from calling out for help? Imagine that for a driver out in the middle of nowhere at night with a couple kids and its below zero.
Or how about the newer levels of tech they are incorporating? They want dealers to be able to scan your car, how long til they can command functions on it too? They want to allow owners to integrate their smart phones with the car, but then that gives hackers a back door into the car by hacking the phone even if the car company firewalls them out.
It would only be easier for them when more of the autonomous vehicles hit the road. Take over a car with no human driver and do as you please.
But the problem is people flashing ECU’s? You need a J2534 pass through and a good computer or factory level scan tool to start with, and you have to go to the factory site and pay them dearly to download into the car. Only very well-equipped independent shops have that level of tech at their disposal. I imagine one idea in the automaker’s heads is that they can use this as a fee grab. Once they are the only ones who can do updates, they are going to make them NEED updates to keep working right. Kind of like Microsoft no longer supporting XP. I have to buy a whole new computer now because I cannot install a new printer. The computer needs an update and Microsoft will not release one to me. My machine will not work right if I buy Windows 7, so I am forced to buy a completely new machine and the license for a new version of Windows. So what would stop them doing that to cars.
Customer: I’m here because my check engine light is on.
Dealer: Yes, your vehicle needs a software update
Customer: How much will that cost and when can I get the car back?
Dealer: Well Ford is no longer issuing updates for your car because it is 6 years old, and it needs an update to keep it from misfiring and to pass emissions so you will have to buy a new car
Customer: Go fuck yourself!
[quote=”Chevyman21″ post=135209]We just recently had a thread on this very mattter: http://www.ericthecarguy.com/kunena/4-General-Automotive-Discussion/57623-making-working-on-your-own-car-illegal%5B/quote%5D
Figured that was bound to happen.. ty!
[quote=”nickwarner” post=135223]I found it hilarious that John Deere claims people will pirate music with a tractor. Yeah, because nobody owns computers or smartphones huh?
I think politicians know fully well that if they supported something like this, especially when the right to repair legislation was so well received, that they would be demonized by the voters. It would be obvious to all that some greedy corporations are having the audacity to say that despite shelling out over $40,000 for a new car full of overseas parts and quality problems that you don’t actually own it.
With the huge amount on integrated tech they are putting into new cars, especially with the online access systems, maybe they need to start looking at spending their time and money on keeping them safe from hackers. Wouldn’t that be a great move for terrorists to gain control of say, OnStar and shut down everyone in the middle of the road? While they are at it lock them into the car and keep them from calling out for help? Imagine that for a driver out in the middle of nowhere at night with a couple kids and its below zero.
Or how about the newer levels of tech they are incorporating? They want dealers to be able to scan your car, how long til they can command functions on it too? They want to allow owners to integrate their smart phones with the car, but then that gives hackers a back door into the car by hacking the phone even if the car company firewalls them out.
It would only be easier for them when more of the autonomous vehicles hit the road. Take over a car with no human driver and do as you please.
But the problem is people flashing ECU’s? You need a J2534 pass through and a good computer or factory level scan tool to start with, and you have to go to the factory site and pay them dearly to download into the car. Only very well-equipped independent shops have that level of tech at their disposal. I imagine one idea in the automaker’s heads is that they can use this as a fee grab. Once they are the only ones who can do updates, they are going to make them NEED updates to keep working right. Kind of like Microsoft no longer supporting XP. I have to buy a whole new computer now because I cannot install a new printer. The computer needs an update and Microsoft will not release one to me. My machine will not work right if I buy Windows 7, so I am forced to buy a completely new machine and the license for a new version of Windows. So what would stop them doing that to cars.
Customer: I’m here because my check engine light is on.
Dealer: Yes, your vehicle needs a software update
Customer: How much will that cost and when can I get the car back?
Dealer: Well Ford is no longer issuing updates for your car because it is 6 years old, and it needs an update to keep it from misfiring and to pass emissions so you will have to buy a new car
Customer: Go fuck yourself![/quote]
Planned obsolescence at its finest. Couldn’t agree more w/you. Self driving cars, sure because the computer is in control and no manual override exists. Therefor, yes if you flashed something and the front sensor array isn’t recognized, could be lethal if someone walked in front or came to a complete stop. It will probably end up like android phones. If you flash it, you void your warranty at the most. If they got caught trying to do that though, they would go out of business, indoubtley. You would have to take it to the dealer for anything. Oil past due? Well, transmission won’t shift out of park until that is done now. So, you would have to get it towed to the dealer.
Why are they releasing cars like video games now?.. Go buy a new car and get the letter in the mail “We released a f/w update to correct your problem!”. They releasing unfinished firmware updates now? One of the main reasons I don’t wanna get rid of my ’00. Nothing too advanced that I can’t fix in my driveway and don’t need 20k$ worth of computerized tools to just see it. Matter of time before they give you more features with DLC… “Want 5th gear to save fuel mileage? Enable that for $499 today!”. Granted, you bought it, paid for it… feature exists, but fork over more to use it.
Also yea, I lost it at the JD comment upon reading haha. Has 100k$ machine, can’t afford smartphone.
[quote=”nickwarner” post=135223]I found it hilarious that John Deere claims people will pirate music with a tractor. Yeah, because nobody owns computers or smartphones huh?
I think politicians know fully well that if they supported something like this, especially when the right to repair legislation was so well received, that they would be demonized by the voters. It would be obvious to all that some greedy corporations are having the audacity to say that despite shelling out over $40,000 for a new car full of overseas parts and quality problems that you don’t actually own it.
With the huge amount on integrated tech they are putting into new cars, especially with the online access systems, maybe they need to start looking at spending their time and money on keeping them safe from hackers. Wouldn’t that be a great move for terrorists to gain control of say, OnStar and shut down everyone in the middle of the road? While they are at it lock them into the car and keep them from calling out for help? Imagine that for a driver out in the middle of nowhere at night with a couple kids and its below zero.
Or how about the newer levels of tech they are incorporating? They want dealers to be able to scan your car, how long til they can command functions on it too? They want to allow owners to integrate their smart phones with the car, but then that gives hackers a back door into the car by hacking the phone even if the car company firewalls them out.
It would only be easier for them when more of the autonomous vehicles hit the road. Take over a car with no human driver and do as you please.
But the problem is people flashing ECU’s? You need a J2534 pass through and a good computer or factory level scan tool to start with, and you have to go to the factory site and pay them dearly to download into the car. Only very well-equipped independent shops have that level of tech at their disposal. I imagine one idea in the automaker’s heads is that they can use this as a fee grab. Once they are the only ones who can do updates, they are going to make them NEED updates to keep working right. Kind of like Microsoft no longer supporting XP. I have to buy a whole new computer now because I cannot install a new printer. The computer needs an update and Microsoft will not release one to me. My machine will not work right if I buy Windows 7, so I am forced to buy a completely new machine and the license for a new version of Windows. So what would stop them doing that to cars.
Customer: I’m here because my check engine light is on.
Dealer: Yes, your vehicle needs a software update
Customer: How much will that cost and when can I get the car back?
Dealer: Well Ford is no longer issuing updates for your car because it is 6 years old, and it needs an update to keep it from misfiring and to pass emissions so you will have to buy a new car
Customer: Go fuck yourself![/quote] I find it hilarious that John Deere is even part of this. JD makes tractors and equipment, not “mobile computing devices”. For one, they make me ashamed to be a Deere owner by making such ludicrous statements. Tractors in particular do not use software. I feel that manufacturers are getting fed up with the warranty claims and recalls which were not as prominent in years past. Perhaps if they focused on putting out a quality product rather than “keeping up with the latest tech” and adding so many unnecessary features, there would be not as many claims and lawsuits.
[quote=”k01t” post=135225] Planned obsolescence at its finest. Couldn’t agree more w/you. Self driving cars, sure because the computer is in control and no manual override exists. Therefor, yes if you flashed something and the front sensor array isn’t recognized, could be lethal if someone walked in front or came to a complete stop. It will probably end up like android phones. If you flash it, you void your warranty at the most. If they got caught trying to do that though, they would go out of business, indoubtley. You would have to take it to the dealer for anything. Oil past due? Well, transmission won’t shift out of park until that is done now. So, you would have to get it towed to the dealer.
Why are they releasing cars like video games now?.. Go buy a new car and get the letter in the mail “We released a f/w update to correct your problem!”. They releasing unfinished firmware updates now? One of the main reasons I don’t wanna get rid of my ’00. Nothing too advanced that I can’t fix in my driveway and don’t need 20k$ worth of computerized tools to just see it. Matter of time before they give you more features with DLC… “Want 5th gear to save fuel mileage? Enable that for $499 today!”. Granted, you bought it, paid for it… feature exists, but fork over more to use it.
Also yea, I lost it at the JD comment upon reading haha. Has 100k$ machine, can’t afford smartphone.[/quote] Because they think that’s what the youth of today wants. Instead of making cars more affordable(the real reason kids can’t buy new cars today), they think that making them like a video game will entice the youth to buy new cars. Truth is, alot of todays youth DO care about driving but the right cars aren’t available and certainly not at the right prices. Back in the 50s-90s, at least a kid could get a cool car for a good price. Now, cars are souless unless you are willing to pay the big bucks. All the time I see kids at car shows enthralled at the way things used to be, telling their mom or dad: “I want that car when I grow up” or the like. Cars used to have character and soul, and despite what marketing departments might say, kids and teens still like cars but they have such limited choices both financially and stylewise. Manufacturers think they want “video game cars”, when in reality the underlying problem is much different.
Pull a 1970 Chevelle and any modern car up to a group of teenagers nowdays. The teens will flock to the Chevelle.
EDIT: The car has become so neutered between safety regulations, emissions regulations, electronic nannies that take away from being connected with your machine and the road, that driving has become unappealing for some youth. If they were able to buy and drive a fun car, I don’t believe they would have any objection.
[quote=”Chevyman21″ post=135226][quote=”nickwarner” post=135223]I found it hilarious that John Deere claims people will pirate music with a tractor. Yeah, because nobody owns computers or smartphones huh?
I think politicians know fully well that if they supported something like this, especially when the right to repair legislation was so well received, that they would be demonized by the voters. It would be obvious to all that some greedy corporations are having the audacity to say that despite shelling out over $40,000 for a new car full of overseas parts and quality problems that you don’t actually own it.
With the huge amount on integrated tech they are putting into new cars, especially with the online access systems, maybe they need to start looking at spending their time and money on keeping them safe from hackers. Wouldn’t that be a great move for terrorists to gain control of say, OnStar and shut down everyone in the middle of the road? While they are at it lock them into the car and keep them from calling out for help? Imagine that for a driver out in the middle of nowhere at night with a couple kids and its below zero.
Or how about the newer levels of tech they are incorporating? They want dealers to be able to scan your car, how long til they can command functions on it too? They want to allow owners to integrate their smart phones with the car, but then that gives hackers a back door into the car by hacking the phone even if the car company firewalls them out.
It would only be easier for them when more of the autonomous vehicles hit the road. Take over a car with no human driver and do as you please.
But the problem is people flashing ECU’s? You need a J2534 pass through and a good computer or factory level scan tool to start with, and you have to go to the factory site and pay them dearly to download into the car. Only very well-equipped independent shops have that level of tech at their disposal. I imagine one idea in the automaker’s heads is that they can use this as a fee grab. Once they are the only ones who can do updates, they are going to make them NEED updates to keep working right. Kind of like Microsoft no longer supporting XP. I have to buy a whole new computer now because I cannot install a new printer. The computer needs an update and Microsoft will not release one to me. My machine will not work right if I buy Windows 7, so I am forced to buy a completely new machine and the license for a new version of Windows. So what would stop them doing that to cars.
Customer: I’m here because my check engine light is on.
Dealer: Yes, your vehicle needs a software update
Customer: How much will that cost and when can I get the car back?
Dealer: Well Ford is no longer issuing updates for your car because it is 6 years old, and it needs an update to keep it from misfiring and to pass emissions so you will have to buy a new car
Customer: Go fuck yourself![/quote] I find it hilarious that John Deere is even part of this. JD makes tractors and equipment, not “mobile computing devices”. For one, they make me ashamed to be a Deere owner by making such ludicrous statements. Tractors in particular do not use software. I feel that manufacturers are getting fed up with the warranty claims and recalls which were not as prominent in years past. Perhaps if they focused on putting out a quality product rather than “keeping up with the latest tech” and adding so many unnecessary features, there would be not as many claims and lawsuits.[/quote]
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This…. Wouldn’t buy a JD anyway. Feel you pay for the name more than anything. I’d go with international or CAT.. seems they have the most basic setups anyway.[quote=”k01t” post=135230][quote=”Chevyman21″ post=135226][quote=”nickwarner” post=135223]I found it hilarious that John Deere claims people will pirate music with a tractor. Yeah, because nobody owns computers or smartphones huh?
I think politicians know fully well that if they supported something like this, especially when the right to repair legislation was so well received, that they would be demonized by the voters. It would be obvious to all that some greedy corporations are having the audacity to say that despite shelling out over $40,000 for a new car full of overseas parts and quality problems that you don’t actually own it.
With the huge amount on integrated tech they are putting into new cars, especially with the online access systems, maybe they need to start looking at spending their time and money on keeping them safe from hackers. Wouldn’t that be a great move for terrorists to gain control of say, OnStar and shut down everyone in the middle of the road? While they are at it lock them into the car and keep them from calling out for help? Imagine that for a driver out in the middle of nowhere at night with a couple kids and its below zero.
Or how about the newer levels of tech they are incorporating? They want dealers to be able to scan your car, how long til they can command functions on it too? They want to allow owners to integrate their smart phones with the car, but then that gives hackers a back door into the car by hacking the phone even if the car company firewalls them out.
It would only be easier for them when more of the autonomous vehicles hit the road. Take over a car with no human driver and do as you please.
But the problem is people flashing ECU’s? You need a J2534 pass through and a good computer or factory level scan tool to start with, and you have to go to the factory site and pay them dearly to download into the car. Only very well-equipped independent shops have that level of tech at their disposal. I imagine one idea in the automaker’s heads is that they can use this as a fee grab. Once they are the only ones who can do updates, they are going to make them NEED updates to keep working right. Kind of like Microsoft no longer supporting XP. I have to buy a whole new computer now because I cannot install a new printer. The computer needs an update and Microsoft will not release one to me. My machine will not work right if I buy Windows 7, so I am forced to buy a completely new machine and the license for a new version of Windows. So what would stop them doing that to cars.
Customer: I’m here because my check engine light is on.
Dealer: Yes, your vehicle needs a software update
Customer: How much will that cost and when can I get the car back?
Dealer: Well Ford is no longer issuing updates for your car because it is 6 years old, and it needs an update to keep it from misfiring and to pass emissions so you will have to buy a new car
Customer: Go fuck yourself![/quote] I find it hilarious that John Deere is even part of this. JD makes tractors and equipment, not “mobile computing devices”. For one, they make me ashamed to be a Deere owner by making such ludicrous statements. Tractors in particular do not use software. I feel that manufacturers are getting fed up with the warranty claims and recalls which were not as prominent in years past. Perhaps if they focused on putting out a quality product rather than “keeping up with the latest tech” and adding so many unnecessary features, there would be not as many claims and lawsuits.[/quote]
.
This…. Wouldn’t buy a JD anyway. Feel you pay for the name more than anything. I’d go with international or CAT.. seems they have the most basic setups anyway.[/quote] Well, coming from a farming background, Deere is the only way to go. CAT is more for construction and contractors. The JD name does mean something, it is the Mercedes-Benz of tractors. The components are better made and run longer and take more abuse, but I digress.[quote=”Chevyman21″ post=135231][quote=”k01t” post=135230][quote=”Chevyman21″ post=135226][quote=”nickwarner” post=135223]I found it hilarious that John Deere claims people will pirate music with a tractor. Yeah, because nobody owns computers or smartphones huh?
I think politicians know fully well that if they supported something like this, especially when the right to repair legislation was so well received, that they would be demonized by the voters. It would be obvious to all that some greedy corporations are having the audacity to say that despite shelling out over $40,000 for a new car full of overseas parts and quality problems that you don’t actually own it.
With the huge amount on integrated tech they are putting into new cars, especially with the online access systems, maybe they need to start looking at spending their time and money on keeping them safe from hackers. Wouldn’t that be a great move for terrorists to gain control of say, OnStar and shut down everyone in the middle of the road? While they are at it lock them into the car and keep them from calling out for help? Imagine that for a driver out in the middle of nowhere at night with a couple kids and its below zero.
Or how about the newer levels of tech they are incorporating? They want dealers to be able to scan your car, how long til they can command functions on it too? They want to allow owners to integrate their smart phones with the car, but then that gives hackers a back door into the car by hacking the phone even if the car company firewalls them out.
It would only be easier for them when more of the autonomous vehicles hit the road. Take over a car with no human driver and do as you please.
But the problem is people flashing ECU’s? You need a J2534 pass through and a good computer or factory level scan tool to start with, and you have to go to the factory site and pay them dearly to download into the car. Only very well-equipped independent shops have that level of tech at their disposal. I imagine one idea in the automaker’s heads is that they can use this as a fee grab. Once they are the only ones who can do updates, they are going to make them NEED updates to keep working right. Kind of like Microsoft no longer supporting XP. I have to buy a whole new computer now because I cannot install a new printer. The computer needs an update and Microsoft will not release one to me. My machine will not work right if I buy Windows 7, so I am forced to buy a completely new machine and the license for a new version of Windows. So what would stop them doing that to cars.
Customer: I’m here because my check engine light is on.
Dealer: Yes, your vehicle needs a software update
Customer: How much will that cost and when can I get the car back?
Dealer: Well Ford is no longer issuing updates for your car because it is 6 years old, and it needs an update to keep it from misfiring and to pass emissions so you will have to buy a new car
Customer: Go fuck yourself![/quote] I find it hilarious that John Deere is even part of this. JD makes tractors and equipment, not “mobile computing devices”. For one, they make me ashamed to be a Deere owner by making such ludicrous statements. Tractors in particular do not use software. I feel that manufacturers are getting fed up with the warranty claims and recalls which were not as prominent in years past. Perhaps if they focused on putting out a quality product rather than “keeping up with the latest tech” and adding so many unnecessary features, there would be not as many claims and lawsuits.[/quote]
.
This…. Wouldn’t buy a JD anyway. Feel you pay for the name more than anything. I’d go with international or CAT.. seems they have the most basic setups anyway.[/quote] Well, coming from a farming background, Deere is the only way to go. CAT is more for construction and contractors. The JD name does mean something, it is the Mercedes-Benz of tractors. The components are better made and run longer and take more abuse, but I digress.[/quote]Well, to be fair I wouldn’t put a mercedes on a job site where its going to get used and abused[father is in construction]. They run those things into the ground before they cycle them out. Were he is from, they have a couple international’s and an old ford tractor.. damn things still run today and are from the 70’s.. sitting out in the elements too.
That being said, no you can’t check your emails while you’re out moving earth using hands free voice commands on those.. lol.
Brings up another point.. I don’t like the sound of all my hard work machinery being equipped with all this technology.. Don’t think they’d make it like their 70-90’s counter parts.. so much technology.
[quote=”nickwarner” post=135223] One of the main reasons I don’t wanna get rid of my ’00. Nothing too advanced that I can’t fix in my driveway and don’t need 20k$ worth of computerized tools to just see it. Matter of time before they give you more features with DLC… “Want 5th gear to save fuel mileage? Enable that for $499 today!”. Granted, you bought it, paid for it… feature exists, but fork over more to use it. [/quote]
Same reason I keep my 1990. Also don’t have computers telling me what gear to be in since its a stick shift. I’m going to fabricate a rotisserie so I can fix the rust and I’ll drive that thing another 20 years no problem.
[quote=”nickwarner” post=135297][quote=”nickwarner” post=135223] One of the main reasons I don’t wanna get rid of my ’00. Nothing too advanced that I can’t fix in my driveway and don’t need 20k$ worth of computerized tools to just see it. Matter of time before they give you more features with DLC… “Want 5th gear to save fuel mileage? Enable that for $499 today!”. Granted, you bought it, paid for it… feature exists, but fork over more to use it. [/quote]
Same reason I keep my 1990. Also don’t have computers telling me what gear to be in since its a stick shift. I’m going to fabricate a rotisserie so I can fix the rust and I’ll drive that thing another 20 years no problem.[/quote] Ah ya, I’m going for at least 45 years with my Chevy. There are enough parts for these trucks in junkyards and plenty of them still being used a workhorses everyday. More than enough spare parts for decades to come. Even if gasoline becomes scarce, I can easily convert to 100% ethanol or biodiesel(I have access to quite a few Detroit diesel motors). Try doing any of that with a newer car especially when their ECMs and sensors become obsolete. Any part I can’t get, I can fabricate. Pre-OBDII and especially pre can-bus stuff is easy to keep going without dealing with the ridiculous module networks.
[b]Well, to be fair I wouldn’t put a mercedes on a job site where its going to get used and abused[father is in construction]. They run those things into the ground before they cycle them out. Were he is from, they have a couple international’s and an old ford tractor.. damn things still run today and are from the 70’s.. sitting out in the elements too.
That being said, no you can’t check your emails while you’re out moving earth using hands free voice commands on those.. lol.
Brings up another point.. I don’t like the sound of all my hard work machinery being equipped with all this technology.. Don’t think they’d make it like their 70-90’s counter parts.. so much technology.[/b]
Well farming and construction are two different worlds. In farming, we never used CAT mainly JD but there were also some older Ford tractors(those things truly are workhorses). By Mercedes-Benz, I was referring to engineering and quality…not comfort and tech. JDs do have better engineering and parts. Unlike construction, tractor downtime on a farm is far more harmful to productivity and efficiency. We couldn’t just bring in another guy with a tractor in the middle of seeding, tilling etc. Because planting and harvesting have certain windows, downtime of any kind is hurtful. Deere does stand for quality. I also don’t believe in tech being used for tractors and equipment, there is absolutely no reason for it. When I’m working, I like to be working. Why would one ever need to check their FB, email, or the like while they work? Music used to be good enough.
I remember about 1993 when people were having a similar freak-out because some big bad system called “OBD-II” was going to be used in car ECMs. Of course it would take a special machine to hook up to your car to find out what was wrong. The same “special machine” you can now get for $40 at autozone…
I remember them saying, “You cannot even work on your car because everything is electronic”. Funny, there are still TONS of mechanical parts on cars, and those mechanical parts are more often than not what screw up, not so much the electronics.And here we are, 20 years after, still working on our cars… I used mine on my Acura to confirm an EGR insufficient flow, the same problem Eric covers in a video…
I think the “illegal” part will be the same as before, you cannot modify things that would cause it to fail emissions.
Are they gonna make it illegal to change brakes, suspension parts, hard engine parts, hoses, etc?While it is true that newer cars are always more of a challenge for the backyard mechanic, usually by the time cars start breaking down, car companies are more focused on the new stuff they have to offer than if some average Joe wants to fix his 10 year old beater.
If you talk to some older mechanics (60 or older) they will probably tell you they freaked out when this scary thing called “fuel injection” was going to be used instead of carburetors. Who among us, even us backard mechanics, hasn’t fixed something in the FI system at some point?
The sky is not going to fall people, chill out.
I think you are making a bit of an apples and oranges comparison here. OBD-II was developed because the government wanted to increase emission control and to standardize the ability of them to measure it. Prior to that everyone made their own tool with their own plug and did not have to be measuring the same things. Codes could mean anything make to make. OBD-II leveled that field greatly, allowing one standard port and one tool to have access to a lot of codes that meant the same thing across all makes. A P0301 is a cylinder 1 miss on a Honda, Ford, Jeep, everything. Hence it being referred to as Global OBD codes. No manufacturer could force you to enter a password to access it, nobody could monitor it without being directly and physically inside of your vehicle. There was no system installed in vehicles to track them by satellite nor was there a method by which someone outside of your vehicle could shut the engine down and lock your doors. The government ruled that automakers could not withhold from the public the information needed to service these systems. The codes inside you car were not privy just to the dealership, which would constitute a monopoly.
Boy, things have surely changed. When techs were angry about the end of carbs, it was because the familiar and easy work they had done their entire lives was changing. Unless they underwent a paradigm shift inside their own heads and increased not only their knowledge base but their tooling they were going to be rendered obsolete as techs. Many left the industry due to this. Others adapted and thrived.
Now the vehicles are not just vehicles with an electronic control for the engine. They are Wi-Fi hotspots, synchronizing with smartphones and the internet. You cannot lock out a manufacturer from seeing what is going on in the car. If they want, they can. We also have a world where more money is out to be stolen from a nameless face with a keyboard than has ever been taken by an armed man with a ski mask. We have a world where data is the new currency and is being mined in every way possible to exploit the public. Automakers want to find more ways to utilize this and if they are the only ones with access they will have nobody able to check them on it and prevent them from doing it. You would have to hope for an automaker version of Snowden to come forth to even know about it yet at that point the damage would already have been done.
If you think you can trust the government or a corporation to do the right thing, you must not have checked the news in a few decades. They absolutely can do exactly what I have hypothesized if they buy a few court rulings first. See, the software is copyright protected, so you must pay to have updates flashed into your car. You cannot copy it and load it into other cars yourself, it would be piracy. So it is protected intellectual property. Now they need the next step, which is what they are trying to do now. They need to get a judge to rule that you do not own it when it is in your car. If you are just using it under license then it is not yours. Therefore they can choose to modify terms of service (that fine print nobody reads) anytime they want, So maybe this latest term states you can only have it if you agree to allow the carmakers to follow your locations (data they can sell to advertisers) and driving habits (you think your insurance company might be willing to spend a few bucks for that). They also can set an expiration of the license and require you to upgrade at set times. A problem created not because the vehicle was broken but because they wanted to change it. Just like Microsoft not supporting XP. They didn’t take XP away, they just made sure that you cannot update it so you lose functionality until the machine is no longer worth having. This in turn forces you to buy a new machine.
You can call it fearmongering, paranoia or whatever else you like, but I would like you to think about that comparison I have made. The only reason they haven’t done it already is because they are prevented from doing so. There are legal constraints to doing so. They are seeking to remove those constraints and just expect us to blindly trust that they are doing things in our best interests. Once they arrive at the point where we as a society figured out what they did it will already be too late. This is a whole different ballgame in the internet age than it was in 93.
[quote=”nickwarner” post=135521]I think you are making a bit of an apples and oranges comparison here. OBD-II was developed because the government wanted to increase emission control and to standardize the ability of them to measure it. Prior to that everyone made their own tool with their own plug and did not have to be measuring the same things. Codes could mean anything make to make. OBD-II leveled that field greatly, allowing one standard port and one tool to have access to a lot of codes that meant the same thing across all makes. A P0301 is a cylinder 1 miss on a Honda, Ford, Jeep, everything. Hence it being referred to as Global OBD codes. No manufacturer could force you to enter a password to access it, nobody could monitor it without being directly and physically inside of your vehicle. There was no system installed in vehicles to track them by satellite nor was there a method by which someone outside of your vehicle could shut the engine down and lock your doors. The government ruled that automakers could not withhold from the public the information needed to service these systems. The codes inside you car were not privy just to the dealership, which would constitute a monopoly.
Boy, things have surely changed. When techs were angry about the end of carbs, it was because the familiar and easy work they had done their entire lives was changing. Unless they underwent a paradigm shift inside their own heads and increased not only their knowledge base but their tooling they were going to be rendered obsolete as techs. Many left the industry due to this. Others adapted and thrived.
Now the vehicles are not just vehicles with an electronic control for the engine. They are Wi-Fi hotspots, synchronizing with smartphones and the internet. You cannot lock out a manufacturer from seeing what is going on in the car. If they want, they can. We also have a world where more money is out to be stolen from a nameless face with a keyboard than has ever been taken by an armed man with a ski mask. We have a world where data is the new currency and is being mined in every way possible to exploit the public. Automakers want to find more ways to utilize this and if they are the only ones with access they will have nobody able to check them on it and prevent them from doing it. You would have to hope for an automaker version of Snowden to come forth to even know about it yet at that point the damage would already have been done.
If you think you can trust the government or a corporation to do the right thing, you must not have checked the news in a few decades. They absolutely can do exactly what I have hypothesized if they buy a few court rulings first. See, the software is copyright protected, so you must pay to have updates flashed into your car. You cannot copy it and load it into other cars yourself, it would be piracy. So it is protected intellectual property. Now they need the next step, which is what they are trying to do now. They need to get a judge to rule that you do not own it when it is in your car. If you are just using it under license then it is not yours. Therefore they can choose to modify terms of service (that fine print nobody reads) anytime they want, So maybe this latest term states you can only have it if you agree to allow the carmakers to follow your locations (data they can sell to advertisers) and driving habits (you think your insurance company might be willing to spend a few bucks for that). They also can set an expiration of the license and require you to upgrade at set times. A problem created not because the vehicle was broken but because they wanted to change it. Just like Microsoft not supporting XP. They didn’t take XP away, they just made sure that you cannot update it so you lose functionality until the machine is no longer worth having. This in turn forces you to buy a new machine.
You can call it fearmongering, paranoia or whatever else you like, but I would like you to think about that comparison I have made. The only reason they haven’t done it already is because they are prevented from doing so. There are legal constraints to doing so. They are seeking to remove those constraints and just expect us to blindly trust that they are doing things in our best interests. Once they arrive at the point where we as a society figured out what they did it will already be too late. This is a whole different ballgame in the internet age than it was in 93.[/quote] I wish I could give you more than just 1 thank you for this post Nick. You have hit the nail straight on the head and driven it home. This is a power grab and is much different than OBD2 and times past. The abuse that could come out of this is astronomical. Certain people may call this fear mongering, but, that would mean Paul Revere was a fear mongerer too.
Wake up America! Your rights are being taken away by greedy politicans and special interests! The British are coming and we NEED a Paul Revere.
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