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Does anyone have an answer to the basic question of why my Ford Freestar would be “dead” (no start, no crank) and the PCM won’t give any codes for us to look up??? The battery is fine, it’s not a “key” issue, and someone used a tester and checked the wiring and fuses for me. I then replaced the PCM, it was supposedly programmed, but still no codes……..
Thanks for any ideas you might have 🙂
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[quote=”MarineWife” post=172391]Pretty sure that there is no power to the PCM…..you’re right, I forgot that the codes aren’t produced until vehicle is driving for X number of miles…..but unfortunately, since it won’t crank or start at all, we can’t drive it, so we’re up a creek at the moment :-([/quote]
if you can not hand crank the engine the PCM isn’t the eremite problem… might be a secandy problem but you have to figure out the first problem firstwe can easyly tell you how to do it …. its an easy test to hand crank the engine reqireing only basic tools,,, but it might be phyical a little bit hard for you if your a female.. but you should be able to phyicaly do it if you want to… basiclly you will be torcing as much force as pushing a car in nutral on a level street… I know some females that dont have the phyical stringth to do it but its not really to bad… you might want to have a guy help you out just incase
you can do it if you dont want to wait untill your macanic comes around…
so its up to youDid a quick search and found a guy with the same car and a similar issue. Looks like the ‘transmission range sensor’ is a problem on those cars. If it’s not working then car thinks it’s in gear and won’t engage the starter. A couple people have tried holding your foot on the brake and also holding the key to the start position, then moving the gear shifter around through all the gears, if it does anything then it’s likely the sensor at fault.
Your Ford tech may have already checked for that but thought I’d mention it. If you attempt that, just be ready to turn it off or hold the brake hard in case it starts in gear and tries to lurch.
I think she said she is having power at the starter, but good checking out..thats why I told her she has to hand crank the engine because if she has power at the starter and starter is good then it should atleast turn the engine unless its like hitting the fly wheel or if it doesnt have anof power to turn it like corrotion in the wires……. intresting find tho
From what I read the ground for the starter relay is provided via the ECU, and the ECU only provides ground when that range sensor says it’s okay to do so (i.e. the car is either in park or neutral). So there is probably no problem with the wiring to the starter, it’s just that the relay isn’t turning on.
Also would check fuse #41 in the fuse block under the hood. It’s for the PCM and several people have had their Freestar die in the middle of traffic like this and the starter motor seems dead for same reason above, no power to ECU so no power to starter relay.
from my reading the starter is functioning correctly and that the engine is turning over but not starting,
the vehicle was running and then just died on you.
and the pcm is showing no codes.what are you reading the codes with? is it reading them correctly and showing that it has no codes. or is it giving a error as it cant read them?
if it is infact reading the pcm and showing no codes the scanner might be able to read live data from the pcm.another thing is how did the vehicle died on the road. did it just cut out or whas it sputtering before it cut out.
there are a few things that would cause a car not to start. the normal no fuel no spark. but also if the pcm cant detect how fast the engine is spinning it wont attempt to start.
[quote=”Nodak81″ post=172448]From what I read the ground for the starter relay is provided via the ECU, and the ECU only provides ground when that range sensor says it’s okay to do so (i.e. the car is either in park or neutral). So there is probably no problem with the wiring to the starter, it’s just that the relay isn’t turning on.
Also would check fuse #41 in the fuse block under the hood. It’s for the PCM and several people have had their Freestar die in the middle of traffic like this and the starter motor seems dead for same reason above, no power to ECU so no power to starter relay.[/quote]
from what she said the starter is getting power to it… and she said she pulled the starter off and checked it and should of hot wired it off the engine and should of saw the gear come out and the gear spin… and in the brgining she said she has no start no crank wich means the engine is not turning when the starter is engaged…. wich means the starter doesnt have enough power to turn the engine most likily something is seized up… but you still have to hand crank the engine because you might still have a weak starter or the amps not going to it to fully function to turn the engine…
but good looking out Nodak81… it can even be like the ac cluch that seized up…. you can take the serpitine belt off and try starting the engine… just dont let it run for long you will not have the water pump running and will start to over heat… but the engine should turn
but I think Nodak81, we can get her probelm figured out for hernow Im confused she said “This is the same vehicle, and has not cranked or started since the day it died while driving down the road (except for once when a jumper was put on the starter to see if it engaged and then it did crank but not start), so it doesn’t appear to be a starter problem, and have tested and there IS power going to the starter.”
and she also “There is power to the starter, and have put a charger on the battery, and this vehicle has no fuseable links.
As for clicks, there is a click when the key is turned, and the starter is engaging”what my understanding is the power is going to the starter when the key is turned but the starter is not able to turn the engine… when she hot wired the starter on the engine she was able to crank the engine… just to make an understanding you tested the wire that was connected at the starter not at the relay or something else but you tested it directly at the post of the starter??? is that correct
[quote=”bsdklle” post=172452]from my reading the starter is functioning correctly and that the engine is turning over but not starting,
the vehicle was running and then just died on you.
and the pcm is showing no codes.what are you reading the codes with? is it reading them correctly and showing that it has no codes. or is it giving a error as it cant read them?
if it is infact reading the pcm and showing no codes the scanner might be able to read live data from the pcm.another thing is how did the vehicle died on the road. did it just cut out or whas it sputtering before it cut out.
there are a few things that would cause a car not to start. the normal no fuel no spark. but also if the pcm cant detect how fast the engine is spinning it wont attempt to start.[/quote]
Engine just cut out, no warning at all & no previous problems on other days.
The code readers that have been used (computer type & others) I believe read “links error”. Thanks for your input.[quote=”Nodak81″ post=172448]From what I read the ground for the starter relay is provided via the ECU, and the ECU only provides ground when that range sensor says it’s okay to do so (i.e. the car is either in park or neutral). So there is probably no problem with the wiring to the starter, it’s just that the relay isn’t turning on.
Also would check fuse #41 in the fuse block under the hood. It’s for the PCM and several people have had their Freestar die in the middle of traffic like this and the starter motor seems dead for same reason above, no power to ECU so no power to starter relay.[/quote]
Thanks so much! The transmission range sensor may be a good lead, especially since that “check traction control” warning came on. Will have the Marine do the test you said with changing gears from your last message, and also check that fuse #41 🙂
Well…..he just did the foot on the brake shifting test you described, and unfortunately nothing happened……and he rechecked that fuse #41, and it’s okay 🙁 So does that mean that the transmission range sensor is ok????
[quote=”Rob781″ post=172455]now Im confused she said “This is the same vehicle, and has not cranked or started since the day it died while driving down the road (except for once when a jumper was put on the starter to see if it engaged and then it did crank but not start), so it doesn’t appear to be a starter problem, and have tested and there IS power going to the starter.”
and she also “There is power to the starter, and have put a charger on the battery, and this vehicle has no fuseable links.
As for clicks, there is a click when the key is turned, and the starter is engaging”what my understanding is the power is going to the starter when the key is turned but the starter is not able to turn the engine… when she hot wired the starter on the engine she was able to crank the engine… just to make an understanding you tested the wire that was connected at the starter not at the relay or something else but you tested it directly at the post of the starter??? is that correct[/quote]
Yes, that is correct! And when tested directly at the post the engine turned over (cranked) but would not start. Has not been running since the day it died driving on the road.
[quote=”MarineWife” post=172482][quote=”Rob781″ post=172455]now Im confused she said “This is the same vehicle, and has not cranked or started since the day it died while driving down the road (except for once when a jumper was put on the starter to see if it engaged and then it did crank but not start), so it doesn’t appear to be a starter problem, and have tested and there IS power going to the starter.”
and she also “There is power to the starter, and have put a charger on the battery, and this vehicle has no fuseable links.
As for clicks, there is a click when the key is turned, and the starter is engaging”what my understanding is the power is going to the starter when the key is turned but the starter is not able to turn the engine… when she hot wired the starter on the engine she was able to crank the engine… just to make an understanding you tested the wire that was connected at the starter not at the relay or something else but you tested it directly at the post of the starter??? is that correct[/quote]
Yes, that is correct! And when tested directly at the post the engine turned over (cranked) but would not start. Has not been running since the day it died driving on the road.[/quote]
I have to ask this question what is the voltage at the starter when you turn your key… is it like 12v or are you reading like 2v at the post inputs of the starter… if your getting 12v+ and have the amps going to the starter post on the starter… the starter should turn… car might not start but the engine should crank…
now if you have the key out with the starter(hot wired on) turning they car wouldnt start because the spark plugs are not engaged or it could be some computer sub system too not sending the fire signal to start the car so that might work or might not on your car
[quote=”Rob781″ post=172487][quote=”MarineWife” post=172482][quote=”Rob781″ post=172455]now Im confused she said “This is the same vehicle, and has not cranked or started since the day it died while driving down the road (except for once when a jumper was put on the starter to see if it engaged and then it did crank but not start), so it doesn’t appear to be a starter problem, and have tested and there IS power going to the starter.”
and she also “There is power to the starter, and have put a charger on the battery, and this vehicle has no fuseable links.
As for clicks, there is a click when the key is turned, and the starter is engaging”what my understanding is the power is going to the starter when the key is turned but the starter is not able to turn the engine… when she hot wired the starter on the engine she was able to crank the engine… just to make an understanding you tested the wire that was connected at the starter not at the relay or something else but you tested it directly at the post of the starter??? is that correct[/quote]
Yes, that is correct! And when tested directly at the post the engine turned over (cranked) but would not start. Has not been running since the day it died driving on the road.[/quote]
I have to ask this question what is the voltage at the starter when you turn your key… is it like 12v or are you reading like 2v at the post inputs of the starter… if your getting 12v+ and have the amps going to the starter post on the starter… the starter should turn… car might not start but the engine should crank…
now if you have the key out with the starter(hot wired on) turning they car wouldnt start because the spark plugs are not engaged or it could be some computer sub system too not sending the fire signal to start the car so that might work or might not on your car[/quote]
I asked him and he said without turning the key, the voltage was actually 12.5v, and yes the starter does turn the engine over (cranks) but it does not start. He ran the jumper wire from the terminal and hooked the lighted tester to it, turned the key to start, and there was no voltage reading (no light).
With the key out, he hot-wired the starter, the engine cranked, but didn’t start. He turned the key to “run” , hot wired the starter again to crank, engine cranked, but again, would not start.
[quote=”MarineWife” post=172526][quote=”Rob781″ post=172487][quote=”MarineWife” post=172482][quote=”Rob781″ post=172455]now Im confused she said “This is the same vehicle, and has not cranked or started since the day it died while driving down the road (except for once when a jumper was put on the starter to see if it engaged and then it did crank but not start), so it doesn’t appear to be a starter problem, and have tested and there IS power going to the starter.”
and she also “There is power to the starter, and have put a charger on the battery, and this vehicle has no fuseable links.
As for clicks, there is a click when the key is turned, and the starter is engaging”what my understanding is the power is going to the starter when the key is turned but the starter is not able to turn the engine… when she hot wired the starter on the engine she was able to crank the engine… just to make an understanding you tested the wire that was connected at the starter not at the relay or something else but you tested it directly at the post of the starter??? is that correct[/quote]
Yes, that is correct! And when tested directly at the post the engine turned over (cranked) but would not start. Has not been running since the day it died driving on the road.[/quote]
I have to ask this question what is the voltage at the starter when you turn your key… is it like 12v or are you reading like 2v at the post inputs of the starter… if your getting 12v+ and have the amps going to the starter post on the starter… the starter should turn… car might not start but the engine should crank…
now if you have the key out with the starter(hot wired on) turning they car wouldnt start because the spark plugs are not engaged or it could be some computer sub system too not sending the fire signal to start the car so that might work or might not on your car[/quote]
I asked him and he said without turning the key, the voltage was actually 12.5v, and yes the starter does turn the engine over (cranks) but it does not start. He ran the jumper wire from the terminal and hooked the lighted tester to it, turned the key to start, and there was no voltage reading (no light).
With the key out, he hot-wired the starter, the engine cranked, but didn’t start. He turned the key to “run” , hot wired the starter again to crank, engine cranked, but again, would not start.[/quote]
ok let me get back to the basic’s when your turn your key does the engine turn at all or do you just hear the starter click but not turning????
what I have been checking is the starter not turning the engine when the key is turned is what I thought you said when you have “no crank no start”
not “has crank no start” which means diffrent“I asked him and he said without turning the key, the voltage was actually 12.5v,” wich if you where mesureing across the stater the starter is having power and is energised and should be turning the engine with out having the key turned
1) When you turn the key, the engine doesn’t turn at all, and there is NO click that you can hear. But you can feel the click in the mini relay in the fuse box.
2) There is NO crank, NO start. The only way you can get the car to crank is to hot wire the starter.
3) The starter has power to it. But unless you hot wire it, it does nothing. The way he knows the starter HAS power to it is with the volt meter, by touching the ground and the hot wire and getting a 12.5v reading.
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