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Eric you are right on with Diesel and working for a fleet. Companies like Fedx, UPS or your local utility company
all have large fleets. I think today FedX would be a good choose. The hours sometimes might be long but HEY its over time and in the end of the day you will make out better than at a dealership working flat rate thats for sure
I worked at DHL for 18 years and my very first week there I made more money then all the time I Spent at the chevy dealership plus the benefits were WAY better. Hell I averaged 6 weeks paid vacation year
I would have NEVER got that at a dealership
One of the things I hated at the dealership was the cutthroat between the mechanics and the service writer At my fleet job every one helped each other and got along well.Trust me it makes for a much better work environment
Today when I go pass a dealership and see all the techs out in the shop I kind of real sorry for them.I am sure private fleets and independent shops are great. One problem, independent shops are small man operations, just a couple of techs, in most cases, and the techs that are there, are usually lifers, so the job opportunities for them are few and far inbetween. Fleets have the pick of the litter, there is literally hundreds of applications for them to sift through. When you are new or mid-level, you aren’t as desirable on paper as the guy with 25 years and ASE master tech status.
Getting in will take time, so what do we do in the meantime? We work at dealerships and struggle to make the bills.
The change that is needed is to bring the fact that flat rate is a loop hole for the dealerships to skirt wage and labor laws against techs to maximize profits. It needs government regulation, write your congressman and the President.
OMG you always have to say something against it…
When you are new or mid-level, you aren’t as desirable on paper as the guy with 25 years and ASE master tech status.
have you ever tried to get such a job? …and not to know from hearsay.
There is always the possibility to change to a better situation… maybe you will have to make a compromise… relocate in another city or something else or you fear a fundamental change?
You will never find a perfect job which will fit your entire requirements, you will have to eat something as well…
bottom line… there are better jobs, you have to take it into account if the changes or compromises you will have to make are worth it or not.Getting in will take time, so what do we do in the meantime? We work at dealerships and struggle to make the bills.
Educate your self… you don’t have to attend always for a school to accumulate knowledge… make self study… interest your self for different topics and new technologies. invest in degrees you realy need not in those you might think they would be good for you.
make your self interesting for the next company. train your self to present or even say to sell you at best at your next job interview. show the company what unique benefit they have if they have you!
no one will take you if you are so pessimistic… life is shit, industry is shit and the only hope is my faithful president… wake up… you have to change not your environment!It’s hard to belive but the whole industry is like the nature. There is a natural selection… if you adapt to challenges you will live other wise you’ll die… that’s nature, that’s free market economy
It must be nice to be so naive. Worry about yourself. I have the skills and drive, I am a good technician. Some nobody on the internet has no basis to state how I behave at work. Considerinng you are completely wrong about everything you said in your post.
Things have changed for the horrible these last 5 years. Feel free to to go look for these jobs.
[quote=”SpawnedX” post=38017]I am sure private fleets and independent shops are great. One problem, independent shops are small man operations, just a couple of techs, in most cases, and the techs that are there, are usually lifers, so the job opportunities for them are few and far inbetween. Fleets have the pick of the litter, there is literally hundreds of applications for them to sift through. When you are new or mid-level, you aren’t as desirable on paper as the guy with 25 years and ASE master tech status.
Getting in will take time, so what do we do in the meantime? We work at dealerships and struggle to make the bills.
The change that is needed is to bring the fact that flat rate is a loop hole for the dealerships to skirt wage and labor laws against techs to maximize profits. It needs government regulation, write your congressman and the President.[/quote]
I can’t disagree with some of this, especially the part about flat rate, but once again you show your true colors as a bitter technician lashing out. It’s all good though because I appreciate your opposing points of view as they do make for some great discussions and as I said you’re not wrong in some of your points. Do yourself a favor though and look for another career that makes you happy and perhaps do auto repair as a hobby. Keep it up and you’ll work yourself to an early grave. And don’t say that you’re ‘trapped’ because that’s just fear of the unknown holding you back. If you really want something to work you make it work, you’re a smart guy, you’ll figure it out.
My bet is that my “optimism” will win out in the end, so far it’s working just fine for me and many others looking for automotive help and advice.
MY god I an SO happy I am NOT in it any more I just work on my own cars now Have not retested my ASE master tech have and just let it go (just don’t care anymore)
I am retired NOW and all I want to do is to work on the old stuff as a hobby
You can see the frustration of many good techs. There are a lot of hacks in the repair world today .
The sad part is I really do not see it getting any better soon.
But I have to agree !100 % with Eric getting all worked up with it WILL put you in an early grave
Just like my friend he walked away got a try,axle dump tuck and today is happy as Hell
The sad part is it going to take lot of hacks doing poor work on peoples cars before the industry wakes up and make changes
There is NOTHING Me or you can do to fix this IT just has to run its corse
What Here every day is IT USED TO BE FUN BUT its NOT anymore
BUT you know I really think its that way with every one right down to the cop on the beat to the school teacher , iTS NOT FUN ANY MORE[quote=”SpawnedX” post=38069]It must be nice to be so naive. Worry about yourself. I have the skills and drive, I am a good technician. Some nobody on the internet has no basis to state how I behave at work. Considerinng you are completely wrong about everything you said in your post.
Things have changed for the horrible these last 5 years. Feel free to to go look for these jobs.[/quote]
From what i’ve seen it isn’t that hard at all. I know a guy who just got on at suncor working on their fleet trucks, got out of school in May. I know another guy working for Flatiron and doing their trucks and equipment and they only got 2 years experiences. So i don’t think you know how it really is. You need to sell your self. Don’t just drop off a resume and hope that works. I got my job by tracking down the guy who runs the shop i work at, and talked to him for an hour. He asked for my resume and told me they were opening a new shop, and they were looking for about 200 people and said he would red flag my resume and move it to the top. a few days later i was having interview one, i now work there.Im truly with you on all of your posts on this topic i work at a Nissan dealer in canada and have read all of your comments pertaining to this you make a great point. I see the same things you do. Flat rate has to be done with. The other day I watched a rookie tech (licensed mind you) ask how to hook a fuel pressure gauge up? REALLY!!!! This clown makes the same wages I do? He brings home the a bigger pay cheque because he avoids the diagnostic, warranty, electrical, trim, RO’s. But he’ll be first up for work when there is a Maint. or brake job coming through the drive thru. The kids coming into this trade have to understand who they work with. When they screw the older (not calling myself old really but I do have the highest seniority)techs those tech aren’t going to help them when they run into problems. I actually laugh when I watch them scratching their heads at a simple problem that I have figured out previously numerous times, yet i will never speak up, I have actually steered them in the wrong direction just for the sheer enjoyment for myself and other more senior techs.
[quote=”canucktech” post=38127]Im truly with you on all of your posts on this topic i work at a Nissan dealer in canada and have read all of your comments pertaining to this you make a great point. I see the same things you do. Flat rate has to be done with. The other day I watched a rookie tech (licensed mind you) ask how to hook a fuel pressure gauge up? REALLY!!!! This clown makes the same wages I do? He brings home the a bigger pay cheque because he avoids the diagnostic, warranty, electrical, trim, RO’s. But he’ll be first up for work when there is a Maint. or brake job coming through the drive thru. The kids coming into this trade have to understand who they work with. When they screw the older (not calling myself old really but I do have the highest seniority)techs those tech aren’t going to help them when they run into problems. I actually laugh when I watch them scratching their heads at a simple problem that I have figured out previously numerous times, yet i will never speak up, I have actually steered them in the wrong direction just for the sheer enjoyment for myself and other more senior techs.[/quote]
Are you serious? ” I’ve actually steered them in the wrong direction just for the sheer enjoyment for myself and other senior technicians” I’m so disappointed & disgusted to hear that from a fellow technician in the industry. Do you not understand by doing that your only screwing yourself? His customer’s are your customer’s by pointing him in the wrong direction only makes it worse for the dealership & makes the customer more angry because it’s taking longer for the repair to be made. Or hence if something breaks because u steered him in the wrong direction.
There’s many more parts that I disagree on in your post like “Laugh when I watch them scratch there heads on an easy problem I have already figured out” Why not help and educate the younger the technician?
“He avoids the diagnostic, warranty, electrical RO’s” no ones avoid’s those RO’s there specifically handed out according to the difficulty thats why we have “A” “B” “C” technicians or the service manager issue’s them according to the skill of the technician.
I mean to be honest i’m a technician and i’m one of the younger ones that has done pretty well at the age of 21. I specialize in electrical & driveability and currently trying to master my way into transmission work now that my side business has slowed down. But it is so disgusting to hear someone that’s a fellow technician talk bad about the “lower level” technicians, because you were one of them at one point.
I
[quote=”entryleveltechh” post=38139]
Are you serious? ” I’ve actually steered them in the wrong direction just for the sheer enjoyment for myself and other senior technicians” I’m so disappointed & disgusted to hear that from a fellow technician in the industry. Do you not understand by doing that your only screwing yourself? His customer’s are your customer’s by pointing him in the wrong direction only makes it worse for the dealership & makes the customer more angry because it’s taking longer for the repair to be made. Or hence if something breaks because u steered him in the wrong direction.There’s many more parts that I disagree on in your post like “Laugh when I watch them scratch there heads on an easy problem I have already figured out” Why not help and educate the younger the technician?
“He avoids the diagnostic, warranty, electrical RO’s” no ones avoid’s those RO’s there specifically handed out according to the difficulty thats why we have “A” “B” “C” technicians or the service manager issue’s them according to the skill of the technician.
I mean to be honest i’m a technician and i’m one of the younger ones that has done pretty well at the age of 21. I specialize in electrical & driveability and currently trying to master my way into transmission work now that my side business has slowed down. But it is so disgusting to hear someone that’s a fellow technician talk bad about the “lower level” technicians, because you were one of them at one point.
I[/quote]
For us younger newer techs this is normal, there is always at least one at a shop. But a lot of the time there is also a younger newer tech who rather not listen and think they know everything.
I wouldn’t really worry about this guys actions, hopefully you never end up working with him.[quote=”entryleveltechh” post=38139][quote=”canucktech” post=38127]Im truly with you on all of your posts on this topic i work at a Nissan dealer in canada and have read all of your comments pertaining to this you make a great point. I see the same things you do. Flat rate has to be done with. The other day I watched a rookie tech (licensed mind you) ask how to hook a fuel pressure gauge up? REALLY!!!! This clown makes the same wages I do? He brings home the a bigger pay cheque because he avoids the diagnostic, warranty, electrical, trim, RO’s. But he’ll be first up for work when there is a Maint. or brake job coming through the drive thru. The kids coming into this trade have to understand who they work with. When they screw the older (not calling myself old really but I do have the highest seniority)techs those tech aren’t going to help them when they run into problems. I actually laugh when I watch them scratching their heads at a simple problem that I have figured out previously numerous times, yet i will never speak up, I have actually steered them in the wrong direction just for the sheer enjoyment for myself and other more senior techs.[/quote]
Are you serious? ” I’ve actually steered them in the wrong direction just for the sheer enjoyment for myself and other senior technicians” I’m so disappointed & disgusted to hear that from a fellow technician in the industry. Do you not understand by doing that your only screwing yourself? His customer’s are your customer’s by pointing him in the wrong direction only makes it worse for the dealership & makes the customer more angry because it’s taking longer for the repair to be made. Or hence if something breaks because u steered him in the wrong direction.
There’s many more parts that I disagree on in your post like “Laugh when I watch them scratch there heads on an easy problem I have already figured out” Why not help and educate the younger the technician?
“He avoids the diagnostic, warranty, electrical RO’s” no ones avoid’s those RO’s there specifically handed out according to the difficulty thats why we have “A” “B” “C” technicians or the service manager issue’s them according to the skill of the technician.
I mean to be honest i’m a technician and i’m one of the younger ones that has done pretty well at the age of 21. I specialize in electrical & driveability and currently trying to master my way into transmission work now that my side business has slowed down. But it is so disgusting to hear someone that’s a fellow technician talk bad about the “lower level” technicians, because you were one of them at one point.
I[/quote]
I’m going to have to agree. If i knew what was going on behind those doors I would not take my car to that shop. That is a disaster waiting to happen.[quote]canucktech wrote:
Im truly with you on all of your posts on this topic i work at a Nissan dealer in canada and have read all of your comments pertaining to this you make a great point. I see the same things you do. Flat rate has to be done with. The other day I watched a rookie tech (licensed mind you) ask how to hook a fuel pressure gauge up? REALLY!!!! This clown makes the same wages I do? He brings home the a bigger pay cheque because he avoids the diagnostic, warranty, electrical, trim, RO’s. But he’ll be first up for work when there is a Maint. or brake job coming through the drive thru. The kids coming into this trade have to understand who they work with. When they screw the older (not calling myself old really but I do have the highest seniority)techs those tech aren’t going to help them when they run into problems. I actually laugh when I watch them scratching their heads at a simple problem that I have figured out previously numerous times, yet i will never speak up, I have actually steered them in the wrong direction just for the sheer enjoyment for myself and other more senior techs.
/quote]All I can say is WOW
Like I said before I found at a dealership there was a lot of cut throat going on NO ONE WANTED to WORK together IT was I know how to fix this BUT I WILL NOT SHARE HOW TO DO. IT
At a fleet you DID NOT SEE THIS every one helped each other out
AND YES I AM A SENIOR TECH and I just cant see playing these baby games
My guess this is WHAT you get with this stupid flat rate system. Every one fighting for hours> This pay system NEEDS be done away with .ITs giving good techs a bad name[quote=”canucktech” post=38127]Im truly with you on all of your posts on this topic i work at a Nissan dealer in canada and have read all of your comments pertaining to this you make a great point. I see the same things you do. Flat rate has to be done with. The other day I watched a rookie tech (licensed mind you) ask how to hook a fuel pressure gauge up? REALLY!!!! This clown makes the same wages I do? He brings home the a bigger pay cheque because he avoids the diagnostic, warranty, electrical, trim, RO’s. But he’ll be first up for work when there is a Maint. or brake job coming through the drive thru. The kids coming into this trade have to understand who they work with. When they screw the older (not calling myself old really but I do have the highest seniority)techs those tech aren’t going to help them when they run into problems. I actually laugh when I watch them scratching their heads at a simple problem that I have figured out previously numerous times, yet i will never speak up, I have actually steered them in the wrong direction just for the sheer enjoyment for myself and other more senior techs.[/quote]
I really don’t want to respond again, but this has to be addressed.
I will never lead a new guy down the wrong path, if I don’t have a car on the lift and he is struggling, I will come over and help him, free of course. If it’s the knucklehead who refuses to take advice or acts like a know-it-all, I let him drown on the job, but never sabotage him in any way. I also have no problem coming and help get an exhaust system hung or getting in the car on the lift and driving it in the air to help a tech make a faster diagnosis.
We all suffer on flat rate, and even if it is the gravy stealer, I will do my best to be supportive. Because at the end of the day, I need that guy to help me when I need a pair of hands.
My rule of helping a new guy is, did he try it himself before asking for help? Yes? Help him, he showed initiative. Has he done this job 10 times and still not getting the hang of it? Let him drown.
I feel like none of you are understanding the complaint about flat rate. It’s not the hours per job, it’s when you are in a shop, and more and more are getting like this, and you have 210 average hours per week come through, with 6 guys working, it is a mathematical impossibility for everyone to make at least 40, nevermind the fact that we are required to be there for 50, can’t leave, to flag an average of 35 hours. I simply want techs to be protected and paid for the time they are REQUIRED to be there.
Ok I have to chime back in here I’ve apparently pushed some buttons. I don’t make it a practice to steering these kids in the wrong direction. But all I ask is you try to figure it out first. These guys (and girls) come in thinking they know their stuff but the minute its not what they thought it was and I use that phrase because they think and guess before they determine a cause of a problem. They come running to find out the answer. I’ve tried to be the mentor but when you watch them jump from hourly to flat rate they cut corners and don’t want to figure anything out. I watched a guy cut a carpet to create an access for a fuel sender because dropping the tank was too hard. The kids who come in looking to make 50 hours just want maintainence packages, brakes, tires and alignments (the quick adjust no customer concern just an upsell) Somebody mentioned ABCD rated RO’s never heard of that you get the next available job VIA electronic RO you’re not designated a brake guy a tranny guy, electrical guy etc you get the next job unless your buddy buddy with the advisor then they slid jobs around etc. If flat rate was done away with and I got paid for every moment I was at work I would teach these guys help them but in flat rate land its everyone for themselves! You work against all the other techs.
[/quote]I really don’t want to respond again, but this has to be addressed.
I will never lead a new guy down the wrong path, if I don’t have a car on the lift and he is struggling, I will come over and help him, free of course. If it’s the knucklehead who refuses to take advice or acts like a know-it-all, I let him drown on the job, but never sabotage him in any way. I also have no problem coming and help get an exhaust system hung or getting in the car on the lift and driving it in the air to help a tech make a faster diagnosis.
We all suffer on flat rate, and even if it is the gravy stealer, I will do my best to be supportive. Because at the end of the day, I need that guy to help me when I need a pair of hands.
My rule of helping a new guy is, did he try it himself before asking for help? Yes? Help him, he showed initiative. Has he done this job 10 times and still not getting the hang of it? Let him drown.
I feel like none of you are understanding the complaint about flat rate. It’s not the hours per job, it’s when you are in a shop, and more and more are getting like this, and you have 210 average hours per week come through, with 6 guys working, it is a mathematical impossibility for everyone to make at least 40, nevermind the fact that we are required to be there for 50, can’t leave, to flag an average of 35 hours. I simply want techs to be protected and paid for the time they are REQUIRED to be there.[/quote]
This is the best argument that you’ve made to date and I feel that it truly speaks to the root of the problem in that the flat rate system can promote poor attitudes and work practices and make for a hostel work environment. The only people that seem to benefit from the flat rate system seem to be the dealership owners. They get to sit back and collect money from the service department while the technicians fight it out in the trenches for table scraps. I think this is the real issue that needs to be addressed with the flat rate system. I won’t lie, it’s going to be difficult if not impossible to change the system but perhaps we can collectively shed some light on it which may bring about some change. I’m also going to go shopping for a ‘good’ dealership where the techs are happy and well ‘fed’. I know there has to be at least one out there with a working business model to address this issue. Bringing the problem to light is only part of the solution, I think we also need to offer viable alternatives or better ways of using the existing system if there is any hope of real change in the repair industry.
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