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[quote=”SpawnedX” post=38209][quote=”canucktech” post=38127
I really don’t want to respond again, but this has to be addressed.
I will never lead a new guy down the wrong path, if I don’t have a car on the lift and he is struggling, I will come over and help him, free of course. If it’s the knucklehead who refuses to take advice or acts like a know-it-all, I let him drown on the job, but never sabotage him in any way. I also have no problem coming and help get an exhaust system hung or getting in the car on the lift and driving it in the air to help a tech make a faster diagnosis.
We all suffer on flat rate, and even if it is the gravy stealer, I will do my best to be supportive. Because at the end of the day, I need that guy to help me when I need a pair of hands.
My rule of helping a new guy is, did he try it himself before asking for help? Yes? Help him, he showed initiative. Has he done this job 10 times and still not getting the hang of it? Let him drown.
I feel like none of you are understanding the complaint about flat rate. It’s not the hours per job, it’s when you are in a shop, and more and more are getting like this, and you have 210 average hours per week come through, with 6 guys working, it is a mathematical impossibility for everyone to make at least 40, nevermind the fact that we are required to be there for 50, can’t leave, to flag an average of 35 hours. I simply want techs to be protected and paid for the time they are REQUIRED to be there.[/quote]
This is the best argument that you’ve made to date and I feel that it truly speaks to the root of the problem in that the flat rate system can promote poor attitudes and work practices and make for a hostel work environment. The only people that seem to benefit from the flat rate system seem to be the dealership owners. They get to sit back and collect money from the service department while the technicians fight it out in the trenches for table scraps. I think this is the real issue that needs to be addressed with the flat rate system. I won’t lie, it’s going to be difficult if not impossible to change the system but perhaps we can collectively shed some light on it which may bring about some change. I’m also going to go shopping for a ‘good’ dealership where the techs are happy and well ‘fed’. I know there has to be at least one out there with a working business model to address this issue. Bringing the problem to light is only part of the solution, I think we also need to offer viable alternatives or better ways of using the existing system if there is any hope of real change in the repair industry.
[quote=”SpawnedX” post=38209][quote=”canucktech” post=38127]Im truly with you on all of your posts on this topic i work at a Nissan dealer in canada and have read all of your comments pertaining to this you make a great point. I see the same things you do. Flat rate has to be done with. The other day I watched a rookie tech (licensed mind you) ask how to hook a fuel pressure gauge up? REALLY!!!! This clown makes the same wages I do? He brings home the a bigger pay cheque because he avoids the diagnostic, warranty, electrical, trim, RO’s. But he’ll be first up for work when there is a Maint. or brake job coming through the drive thru. The kids coming into this trade have to understand who they work with. When they screw the older (not calling myself old really but I do have the highest seniority)techs those tech aren’t going to help them when they run into problems. I actually laugh when I watch them scratching their heads at a simple problem that I have figured out previously numerous times, yet i will never speak up, I have actually steered them in the wrong direction just for the sheer enjoyment for myself and other more senior techs.[/quote]
I really don’t want to respond again, but this has to be addressed.
I will never lead a new guy down the wrong path, if I don’t have a car on the lift and he is struggling, I will come over and help him, free of course. If it’s the knucklehead who refuses to take advice or acts like a know-it-all, I let him drown on the job, but never sabotage him in any way. I also have no problem coming and help get an exhaust system hung or getting in the car on the lift and driving it in the air to help a tech make a faster diagnosis.
We all suffer on flat rate, and even if it is the gravy stealer, I will do my best to be supportive. Because at the end of the day, I need that guy to help me when I need a pair of hands.
My rule of helping a new guy is, did he try it himself before asking for help? Yes? Help him, he showed initiative. Has he done this job 10 times and still not getting the hang of it? Let him drown.
I feel like none of you are understanding the complaint about flat rate. It’s not the hours per job, it’s when you are in a shop, and more and more are getting like this, and you have 210 average hours per week come through, with 6 guys working, it is a mathematical impossibility for everyone to make at least 40, nevermind the fact that we are required to be there for 50, can’t leave, to flag an average of 35 hours. I simply want techs to be protected and paid for the time they are REQUIRED to be there.[/quote]
This is the best argument that you’ve made to date and I feel that it truly speaks to the root of the problem in that the flat rate system can promote poor attitudes and work practices and make for a hostel work environment. The only people that seem to benefit from the flat rate system seem to be the dealership owners. They get to sit back and collect money from the service department while the technicians fight it out in the trenches for table scraps. I think this is the real issue that needs to be addressed with the flat rate system. I won’t lie, it’s going to be difficult if not impossible to change the system but perhaps we can collectively shed some light on it which may bring about some change. I’m also going to go shopping for a ‘good’ dealership where the techs are happy and well ‘fed’. I know there has to be at least one out there with a working business model to address this issue. Bringing the problem to light is only part of the solution, I think we also need to offer viable alternatives or better ways of using the existing system if there is any hope of real change in the repair industry.
Car dealers in Canada charge average $120/hour for labor. As a consumer paying $120/hour labor, I like to see the technicians are well trained and well paid. I hate to see them at work for 50 hours/week and only get paid for 30 hours.
I’m in an automotive program right now and the quality of education is there for sure, well at least where I go to school. It’s a very difficult program, and very fast paced, but it’s enjoyable and we actually LEARN something. However, there are some kids in the class who just don’t know what the fuck they’re doing. Forget about knowing how to connect a fuel pressure gauge, some of these kids need to learn the basics first, such as safety and what the different hand tools are. I’m actually a bit nervous working in a shop at school with some of these kids. They fuck around when we’re welding using oxy-acetylene torches and blow a hissy fit and go to the dean when the instructor gives them shit for acting like an ass. I was cutting a piece of metal with oxy-acetylene just for practice and this kid stands right in front of the piece where the sparks and molten metal are flying off not wearing a face shield. Are you serious? And these are the kind of people that are going to be working on cars and who i’m going to be working with? Not saying all young guys are like this, but quite a few that I know are. I’m lucky to have found this site because I learn so much about the industry and how to act around the older, experienced techs, that I feel like I do know more than a lot of these kids, but maybe that comes with being older (I’m 24 and most of these guys are 19/20).
I agree with SpawnedX in saying never lead a co-worker down the wrong path on purpse. Let them drown if they just expect you to help them whenever even if they don’t try it or have been shown numerous times how to do the job but still don’t give a shit to actually learn and understand the process. Don’t steer them in the wrong direction, that just adds to the problem and makes you look as bad as them.
Hi everyone i have to agree with everything on here so far. As we hear it is hard it get up to speed and to keep up with the change. i my self have been a mechanic for 40 years and have work in a dealership but mostly in the industurl field and with diesel being the main work in the marine field. there are so many jobs that need a person with mechanical brain to repair all this equipment out so check it all out and see where you might fit in.
I myself believe why dealership mechanics suffer is because you can only take your car to a dealer for recall and warranty work whereas you can take your car to your fav mechanic/shop and pay 3x LESS the price of what the dealership will charge for the same exact work at the same exact quality. For example you can take your car into the dealer for a brake job and pay $600 bucks OR you can take your car to a shop have your brakes fixed/changed or whatever for around $200-$300 depending in the job. You can spend about $10 in oil and a filter and change the oil yourself rather than pay a shop $30 to do it for you.
People cannot afford the prices it costs to fix their cars anymore. They realize that they can do it themselvs at a fraction the cost and are willing to spend several hrs/days compared to a shop to do it themselves.
[quote=”LeoTheLion89″ post=43448]I myself believe why dealership mechanics suffer is because you can only take your car to a dealer for recall and warranty work whereas you can take your car to your fav mechanic/shop and pay 3x LESS the price of what the dealership will charge for the same exact work at the same exact quality. For example you can take your car into the dealer for a brake job and pay $600 bucks OR you can take your car to a shop have your brakes fixed/changed or whatever for around $200-$300 depending in the job. You can spend about $10 in oil and a filter and change the oil yourself rather than pay a shop $30 to do it for you.
People cannot afford the prices it costs to fix their cars anymore. They realize that they can do it themselvs at a fraction the cost and are willing to spend several hrs/days compared to a shop to do it themselves.[/quote]
What about lowering prices more competitive to local shops?
I understand the counter-points would be dealership training, dealer overhead/upkeep, and such; but maybe the amount of customers coming in would offset that.
Opinions?
First and foremost, please show me where you can get oil AND a filter for 10.00 anymore. Even AutoZone’s oil deals of 5 quarts and a filter are more than the 19.95 deal that every place offers, at least not decent oil anymore.
Secondly, where is this stigma of the dealer being more and more expensive than an independent. It’s simply not that wide of a spread anymore for price and a lot of times the dealer can be cheaper.
Read this:
http://autos.aol.com/article/dealer-vs-repair-shop/
Now, Midas in my area is 89.00 an hour, the top independent is 80.00 an hour and we are 99.00 an hour with factory certified technicians, repair data and tools. You have an issue with your car, we know your brand inside and out. You bring it to the independent and they diagnose it in 1.5 hours and the fix is 1 hour, the part is 100.00, which brings your total to 300.00. You bring it to the dealership who has seen a ton of these issues, we know exactly what it is and spend 15 minutes confirming it and don’t even charge diag for that 15 minutes. The part is 110.00 and we fix it in the same booked hour and you spend 209.00.
And as that article states, independent shops are now being forced to raise hourly wages in the same ballpark as dealerships to account for upkeep. They don’t have all the specialty tools or brand knowledge and that leads to cost increases in the way of diagnostic costs. Now that the Right to Repair act is starting to gain ground, they are going to have to pay for access (a reasonable amount) to the dealer information, and a reasonable amount is going to be a lot more than you think, since the car manufacturer can reasonable request to be compensated for its R&D. That price is now going to be passed to you the consumer. My dealership matches any independent and I can honestly say we offer prices so low that tire discounter shops call us for price checks to make matches of their own.
There is no 3x less the price difference.
We do front brakes for 299.95, that includes new factory pads and clips, turned rotors (and I can turn a rotor to look better than new, I will take pictures next time) and a full caliper service. Midas charged 455.00.
Dealership technicians suffer because of what you just posted. This thought that we are ridiculously higher for prices and don’t offer a high quality job. We do. I fix countless independent screw-ups every week. Half the customers probably don’t even know the independent sent the car to the dealer to unscrew what they screwed and then just pass the cost to you.
[quote=”SpawnedX” post=43546]Dealership technicians suffer because of what you just posted. This thought that we are ridiculously higher for prices and don’t offer a high quality job. We do. I fix countless independent screw-ups every week. Half the customers probably don’t even know the independent sent the car to the dealer to unscrew what they screwed and then just pass the cost to you.[/quote]
First I want to say I meant no disrespect to the people working at dealerships. How your dealership handles business is great, I personally have came across only one dealership as you described.
The ones around my area (Honda tri-state) usually substantially cost more than an independent shop. Understandably so. I have to travel a fair deal into Long Island to find a such a dealership you described.
So I’ll say, it would be fair to say– people’s experience with dealerships will impact their overall image and reputation as a whole. Usually negative, sorry to say.
[b]hi guys,I have just started at college in the UK doing a mechanics coarse.I am 28 and the oldest in my class by some margin.I have always wanted to be a mechanic but fell into catering.but then after the birth of my 4th child I decided to have a career change and do something that I have a real passion for.when I went for my interview they told me that the first year is pretty basic with the emphasis on servicing and the second year is more on electrics and diagnostics Wichita I think is great. I really think I chose the correct time to start studying mechanics (even though a bit old)as I think if I was to do it a few years ago I don’t think it would have been covers as much.
So I plan to keep dirty for many years to come[/b]
[quote=”aiw2302″ post=114879][b]hi guys,I have just started at college in the UK doing a mechanics coarse.I am 28 and the oldest in my class by some margin.I have always wanted to be a mechanic but fell into catering.but then after the birth of my 4th child I decided to have a career change and do something that I have a real passion for.when I went for my interview they told me that the first year is pretty basic with the emphasis on servicing and the second year is more on electrics and diagnostics Wichita I think is great. I really think I chose the correct time to start studying mechanics (even though a bit old)as I think if I was to do it a few years ago I don’t think it would have been covers as much.
So I plan to keep dirty for many years to come[/b][/quote]
Best of luck on your new carrier choice and good luck in school.
Whats the future holds for mechanics? Well I don’t have a clue what’s going global, however in israel we ended up making a good living.
when I started I was 13 Y.O. I started turning wrenches and been doing it for the past 8years. Started as an apprantice. And become a mechanic by the age of 16.
in israel any idiot that knows how to hold a wrench is becoming a mechanic. We barely have DIYers over here cause to the folks here its just a mystery box how eats fuel and gets u from poin A to pointB.
that sayed, it created some intersting industry here. We dont have flat rate only houerly rates at the dealerhip with bonuses.(the houerly rate stars from 37NIS at most placec up to 50. (Minimum wage is 23).
If u r a free lancer ur work rate is by law 250 NIS an houer.In another topic people here in israel. Are dreaming about working at an office its making a big void in the automotive idustry. Because “New blood” is rare.
theres a cycle going here, theres no new mechnics coming~ theres less mechanic availabe cause most of the mechanics here are about 50+years old and a lot of the are retyering each year~Mechanics stars to be greedy take more money for the same job and the cycle continue.(oil change here starts from 400NIS at a private garage to 600NIS at the dealership)As far as I see it to brake the cycle at the USA and start making an honest living again. The mechanics should embrace the new blood coming. Mentor them and warn them from the dealerships, warn them about the flat rate. Knowledge is power.
Hack maybe even startin ur own bissnuess and hire mechanic with good working condtion. Brake the cycle by braking the market. New blood who will come with ur knowledge and past expriance will start to demend more. In turn it will revive the worn paychecks u’ve been getting.
its silly but here. A freelancer mechanic can make twice of what a guy who works in Intell or IBM makes a month
The automitive idustry is evolving. Were as a proffesional should be doing it too, were just like doctors. If we dont know something, if we dont evolve there will be consequences. The only way to evolve is to embrace the change and adapt.My way of adapting to the changes are:
I consult the few DIYers that come to me. They pay for my advice.
Im expainning the custumer whats wrong with hes car via email, phone, MMS’es and whatsup using photo and analogys so even ones with no mechanic intuition would understand. The custumer are setesfyed and they come back(givent tne fact that alot of the old school mechanics and the dealerships tend to rip them off most of the time).Greetings from Israel. And whish u the best of luck.
ETCG loves ur videos. Keep up the good work!
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