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Flat rate in and of itself is not bad, as it can be a huge motivator to get that extra couple hours or find a quicker way of doing something with the same quality result. However, with the warranty times being cut and cut and cut and all the service work drying up (Especially in the dealership), straight flat rate is anachronistic and draconian for the technicians.
Straight salary would be far better, considering the level of diagnostic ability required for modern driveability and electrical concerns, but it also has its disadvantages. For both the tech and management, the motivation to produce billable hours can drop, as the tech is getting paid no matter how long it takes. Meanwhile the customer is without their car. It also puts more pressure on the technician to adhere to company policies, some of which can be and are solely to be able to fire employees with cause so they can save on personnel costs. Clock in one minute late? That’s a write-up. Forgot to put a 3057 bulb on an RO, or just put one in for a fresh-off-the-road waiter? Termination for theft of company property. Don’t worry about that big engine job, we’ll have the new, lower paid technician we just hired finish it up.
No, the problem is systemic to management’s current view of technicians. Despite some shops and managers knowing what techs go through in order to make a living wage, most see us as a drain on profits. That’s why labor is the first to get cut in order to sell a job, shop equipment is not maintained, benefits are minimal, and raises are virtually unheard of. The current relationship of management to technician is adversarial, and unfortunately techs don’t have the resources to stand up against management, at least for the long term, unless they organize. And considering the personalities and comradeship of the techs I know, that has a snowball’s chance in hell. From my experience, most techs are fiercely individualistic and independent, and very competitive, and auto repair offers us a chance to work by ourselves.
In addition to adversarial management, there’s also the parts department, vehicle engineering, the manufacturing process, and manufacturer support to contend with. My mentor often told me that the technician is the last link of a very long chain of people, all of which have to do their jobs perfectly in order for us to get paid. If one of those people screw up, it’s our paychecks that suffer, because the vast majority of those above us are on a salary and don’t have to deal with flat rate. Sometimes we get vehicles from the factory where one of the guys on the assembly line either screwed up inadvertently, or purposely damaged something as a joke, and we have to fix it for a warranty pittance. Sometimes we know exactly what’s wrong right when the vehicle comes up the service drive, but parts are back ordered until the next apocalypse and we can’t charge the customer. Sometimes the parts guy continually orders the wrong part, either due to incompetence or an incorrect parts catalog. All these things work against us.
To me, the best solution is a hybrid pay system, with a weekly guarantee of hours. Maybe thirty-two or thirty-six hours at your full rate plus whatever else you flag, or maybe forty hours at a slightly reduced rate but if you flag higher you get your full rate, but the reduced would still be enough to live on, or at least float you until your hours got back up. Here in California we are guaranteed by law to double the prevailing minimum wage because we supply our own tools, and that’s if our flagged hours equal less than what we’d make at $16 an hour for however long we were clocked in. In my case, I have to flag 67.4 hours per fifteen day pay period in order to get my full rate of $19 per hour.
However, I don’t think getting a weekly guarantee has much of a chance, simply because the employment environment is so toxic, and most technicians aren’t willing to organize, union or otherwise. Most techs I know have too much to lose, as they have twenty or thirty years in the business and have the house payment, boat payment, alimony payment, and normal living expenses to match, and don’t want to do anything to jeopardize that. On the other hand, the young techs, who are just getting in and don’t have much to lose, don’t understand they’re being taken advantage of until it’s too late. I’m not promoting unionizing, but without a concerted effort by technicians to force not just dealer owners and management, but the manufacturers as well, to take us seriously as extremely skilled intelligent people and valuable assets to their bottom line, techs are going to continue being taken advantage of.
So that’s why, after being in this business for only four and a half years, and being filled with optimism and hope and excitement for my new job back when I was hired as an apprentice, I now loathe going into work, and actively tell our new round of apprentices to get the hell out now while they can.
ah?? I am spouse like bring a car from the junkyard or something? MTTI better give me cars to work on for a $14,000 education.
Some good points have been raised and we all know where you stand SpawnedX, in fact I was thinking of you when I made this video. I’d just like to throw out a couple of things for consideration. The first is what do you think a tech from the 1950’s would think of a vehicle made today? I would argue they probably would have a hard time wrapping their mind around the technology or even imagine working on it. Now if you take that same situation and apply it to right now and transport yourself 70 years into the future and what do you think you would have? I think a similar situation. My point is that automobiles seem to be on if not close to the cutting edge of technology. We as technicians have to keep up with this technology in order to continue to do what we do. Technology evolves as well as technicians. What applies today will not apply in the future. With that in mind I think there is some hope for the future and I think we as technicians and auto repair enthusiasts can help direct that future.
I think employers have always treated technicians with some distain. After all they’re business owners and anything that effects their bottom line such as technician education or specialized equipment cuts into that bottom line. Despite the fact that dealerships are charging $100 per hour+ these days I still think the margins on repair are pretty thin as a result of the technology that exists in the auto repair industry. The flat rate system exists in their eyes to help motivate technicians into performing for them. But as has been pointed out more than once this approach can lead to poor quality repair and resentment on the part of the technician which can also adversely effect the bottom line of the repair business owner. I agree that this is probably the #1 thing that needs to change. It seems to me through the course of this dialog and other dialogs about ETCG1 videos that we’ve established the problems and what we would like to see changed. Now that we’ve done that, what solutions do you think will be viable to confront these issues? I don’t want to tell new technicians to ‘run screaming’ rather than get a career in auto repair. I also don’t want them to learn the hard way that they choice they made in career can cause them a great deal of grief and expense. That said perhaps I have a little pull in the industry at this point and through me YOU can possibly effect a change. There are 2 things I’m passionate about with auto repair, the first is automotive education but the other is technician advocacy. I started ETCG under circumstances that led me to hate the repair industry (for a while) and one of the things I told myself when I started was that if I ever got to a point where I might be able to effect some sort of change on the system I would take that opportunity.
So I’ll put it to the group. Now that we’ve established the issues what do you think I can do as EricTheCarGuy to help change the situation or at least draw enough attention to it so that the discussion gets taken up by those that can effect real change in the industry? I’m serious about this, I’d like to do what I can to make it so that those of you in the industry won’t be telling new technicians to ‘run screaming’ rather than get a career in auto or diesel repair. I’d also like to encourage those of you interested in a career in auto or diesel repair that you can have a happy and prosperous career as a technician. So forum, how can I be of service?
Eric, this is nothing against you at all, but I dont think you can get it changed. I dont think I can. I dont think any other tech can. The only chance we have is to get the government to come in and change the currently existing laws. Every month I write the President and my local representatives imploring them to review flat rate and make changes to protect us. If a business requires me to be there for 50 hours, carrs or not, then they should be required to guarantee me pay for at least 40.
I think the hybrid system is excellent. The next step is how to get lawmaker attention to the issue and that is where you have the advantage Eric. You are a public figure who can spread a message. Faster.
Maybe you’re missing the elephant in the room. I know what I’m learning is more than just keeping an old Honda on the road. I’m watching someone adapt and function beautifully outside the current structured framework. Maybe they don’t have to aspire to work at BillyBob Ford for just a survival wage. Maybe more you’re showing them how to grab on to something new just by doing what you’re doing now.
Think about Jesse James and those Orange County guys. They took it to a new place and now Jesse is breaking Sandra Bullock’s heart. That’s because there are a whole lot of people out there who love doing the same thing they do….and that means opportunity. Most of us sitting here will never own a Ferrari but we work with what we’ve got. We can chop, and drop and paint, and swap, light up and NOS a $1500 20th Century Toyota right into the 21st century. Someone who knows how to do that is always going to be able to make a buck somehow. Either by doing it for someone, showing them how, painting it, or making parts for it. Teach people how to adapt to change, how to follow trends, how to think differently about the world around them, and you’ve armed them with a skill they can take into the future.[quote=”SpawnedX” post=37164]Eric, this is nothing against you at all, but I dont think you can get it changed. I dont think I can. I dont think any other tech can. The only chance we have is to get the government to come in and change the currently existing laws. Every month I write the President and my local representatives imploring them to review flat rate and make changes to protect us. If a business requires me to be there for 50 hours, carrs or not, then they should be required to guarantee me pay for at least 40.
I think the hybrid system is excellent. The next step is how to get lawmaker attention to the issue and that is where you have the advantage Eric. You are a public figure who can spread a message. Faster.[/quote]
A lot of people thought I would fail at ETCG, I disagreed.
If you want to roll over and whine about your job go right ahead, after all you’ve been doing it all along. The rest of us will do what we can to make a difference. I’ve told you this before and I’ll tell you again, it’s your attitude that causes you to be bitter. It’s your attitude that will continue to hold you back. Until you change that nothing will change for you.
All I can say from here is, watch me.
[quote=”jeffrey” post=37165]Maybe you’re missing the elephant in the room. I know what I’m learning is more than just keeping an old Honda on the road. I’m watching someone adapt and function beautifully outside the current structured framework. Maybe they don’t have to aspire to work at BillyBob Ford for just a survival wage. Maybe more you’re showing them how to grab on to something new just by doing what you’re doing now.
Think about Jesse James and those Orange County guys. They took it to a new place and now Jesse is breaking Sandra Bullock’s heart. That’s because there are a whole lot of people out there who love doing the same thing they do….and that means opportunity. Most of us sitting here will never own a Ferrari but we work with what we’ve got. We can chop, and drop and paint, and swap, light up and NOS a $1500 20th Century Toyota right into the 21st century. Someone who knows how to do that is always going to be able to make a buck somehow. Either by doing it for someone, showing them how, painting it, or making parts for it. Teach people how to adapt to change, how to follow trends, how to think differently about the world around them, and you’ve armed them with a skill they can take into the future.[/quote]+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++10000000000000000000000!!!!!!!!!
Well Eric, I doubt you even read my post. I guess my opinion on what needs to be done is just whining. Thats fine…technicians are agreeing with me and not you. How dare we be upset that we arent getting paid for our time, right?
I hope you do prove me wrong. Its the only time I want to be wrong, but know I am right. Would hate having to say I told you so on this one. Now excuse me, have to go reprogram an ECU on an STI for 4our tenths an hour. Been here for 4 hours and made 0.4 hours of pay. Damn me and my whining and having no clue what is going on in a dealership.
[quote=”SpawnedX” post=37193]Well Eric, I doubt you even read my post. I guess my opinion on what needs to be done is just whining. Thats fine…technicians are agreeing with me and not you. How dare we be upset that we arent getting paid for our time, right?
I hope you do prove me wrong. Its the only time I want to be wrong, but know I am right. Would hate having to say I told you so on this one. Now excuse me, have to go reprogram an ECU on an STI for 4our tenths an hour. Been here for 4 hours and made 0.4 hours of pay. Damn me and my whining and having no clue what is going on in a dealership.[/quote]
Seriously? Did you watch the video and listen to what I said? In fact I believe I said that very thing in the video, almost word for word!
I’m going to say this to you for the last time because I’m tired of sounding like a broke record. Change your attitude or better yet your profession as it’s obvious that you’re not happy and the only person that can change that is you.
This is very frustrating to me because you come off as a very intelligent concessions individual which is exactly what we need more of in the industry, we can do without your attitude however.
It’s obvious you’re not happy, this is the ‘attitude’ I’m speaking about. Do I blame you for being unhappy? Not at all. Picture the work environment you’re in and then picture yourself in charge of those techs, or at least 3 of the worst. Then picture yourself actually succeeding in getting them to do some actual work once in a while. Then picture yourself getting fired because the parts manager pocketed the money from a job that YOU did in the shop to help save the shops ass because one of those guys that work under you screwed up an engine. This was MY experience.
I understand where you’re coming from more than you know so don’t assume I don’t. To be honest there’s nothing I can do about the lazy dysfunctional people you work with but the sad truth is ask anyone on the technician form about the people they work with and you’ll probably find more similarities than differences. Does that make it right? No it doesn’t but I think it does point out that you’re not alone in your situation.
If you don’t like where you are start looking for another job. If you find that it’s the same crap in a different location look for a different career. You seem to have this 50 year old mechanic embitterment at half the age. Why put yourself through that for the next 20 years? Perhaps sidestep into diesel work, those guys are doing pretty well now from what I understand. My point is that I’m frustrated that every time I try to instill something positive into a discussion you jump in telling me that I’m wrong and that I don’t understand the industry or at least you make that implication. You say I can have no positive effect on the industry because YOU feel it’s too far gone. Perhaps you’re right but that’s not going to stop me from trying so you might consider changing your attitude or offering suggestions on how to make things better instead of always pointing out what’s wrong with everything. I’ve heard you, I get it. Now lets focus on the positive.
Hi guys I’ve been into cars since I was 11 I’m now 63 It’s a hard trade to be in. Alot of my friends are techs and body men witch is even worse. I found my mitch in being an Electrian. I loved my trade but at the end of the day I was at my buddies shop hanging out. It was a small shop 2 lifts and a durt lot.The shop had a leantoo and a body man rented it and did great paint work. I was in HEAVEN. Time moves on but we still get together. I built up a collection of cars and they helped me alot with there experteace. I know spelling is not good but I’m 63!!!Erick keep up the Great work.
[quote=”EricTheCarGuy” post=37325]It’s obvious you’re not happy, this is the ‘attitude’ I’m speaking about. Do I blame you for being unhappy? Not at all. Picture the work environment you’re in and then picture yourself in charge of those techs, or at least 3 of the worst. Then picture yourself actually succeeding in getting them to do some actual work once in a while. Then picture yourself getting fired because the parts manager pocketed the money from a job that YOU did in the shop to help save the shops ass because one of those guys that work under you screwed up an engine. This was MY experience.
I understand where you’re coming from more than you know so don’t assume I don’t. To be honest there’s nothing I can do about the lazy dysfunctional people you work with but the sad truth is ask anyone on the technician form about the people they work with and you’ll probably find more similarities than differences. Does that make it right? No it doesn’t but I think it does point out that you’re not alone in your situation.
If you don’t like where you are start looking for another job. If you find that it’s the same crap in a different location look for a different career. You seem to have this 50 year old mechanic embitterment at half the age. Why put yourself through that for the next 20 years? Perhaps sidestep into diesel work, those guys are doing pretty well now from what I understand. My point is that I’m frustrated that every time I try to instill something positive into a discussion you jump in telling me that I’m wrong and that I don’t understand the industry or at least you make that implication. You say I can have no positive effect on the industry because YOU feel it’s too far gone. Perhaps you’re right but that’s not going to stop me from trying so you might consider changing your attitude or offering suggestions on how to make things better instead of always pointing out what’s wrong with everything. I’ve heard you, I get it. Now lets focus on the positive.[/quote]
I didn’t IMPLY anything. If I am going to say something, I say it straight out. Therefore I meant what I said, you can’t change it, I can’t change it, no tech can change so we must petition those who have the power to enforce change. That’s it. That’s all I said.
This has nothing to do with YOUR situation. It has nothing to do with MY situation. It has to do with TECHS situation. It’s the same crap at every dealership around here, put in 60 to make 30. That’s the only thing that frustrates me. I don’t care about the techs laziness beside me, that means I make more hours. The only thing I can’t stand is giving up 50+ hours of my time to bring home 20 hour paychecks. The end. I don’t see what you were being so positive with that I apparently rained on your parade. YOU asked US what we think.
I mean…YOU did say that you partly started this channel to cut into dealerships profits after you got out because you were flagging 70, then 50 then 40 then 30 and so forth down the line. So part of your goal was to basically take money from technicians pockets, that’s exactly what you said in the video. How do I have the poor attitude when all I am looking for is to be paid for my time not be vindictive and shut down the entire industry.
All us technicians know that are in the field or have recently left the field that this has become a harder career to stay in because of work hours and lessening pay. All I got to say is, there’s a reason why our tool boxes have wheels if you don’t like the dealership life try working at a “Mom & Pop” shop i’m sure you will be a lot happier with hourly pay & possibly more work because your servicing all makes and models (Even though most dealers service all makes and models now a days).
There are also many ways to bump up your pay or “keeping” more of you pay concerning buying tools. Stop buying from the tool truck and having an extra payment each week thats what eats up most technicians they buy over inflated tools. There are many great websites Amazon,ToolTopia,ToolWeb ect that can save a lot of money from rather buying the tools from the tool truck. I personally own a lot of Armstrong USA tools which are awesome (Also to say they have a contract with the military so they are outstanding tools). Also more great tools Gearwrench are awesome.
I’m tired of hearing technicians complain about the field (I used to be one of them) it’s not gonna change so if you don’t like it roll your tool box out the door or become proactive about it. Do side work, make your own youtube repair channel & add google adsense, start your own blog about being a technician and be an affilate marketer, become an automotive teacher and teach what you love, try out “Mom & Pop shop”, Buy & Sell used cars (Flipping Cars), Get into diesel repair, work as a automotive technician for government vehicles, start your own small business and sell automotive tools.
I hope no one takes my post as disrespect i’m not trying to be, but sitting here on this forum and complaining is not helping you in anyway.
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