Vigor/Accord Axle, Upper Control Arm, Strut Replacement

[EricTheCarGuy]

I actually made this video some time ago. So long ago that I forgot that I had also created an extended version of the video for Premium Members. No worries, I’m going to make that available to Premium Members ASAP. Either way, I think this is a good video and features the usefulness of my Branick spring compressor. It really is great having that thing in times like this. Now that I’ve done the suspension, I’m going to be replacing the tires next. I might just machine the rotors as well. I love playing with the tools in my shop. Even better when I can make videos of me playing with the tools in my shop.

Enough said. What did you think of the video?

Topic

[Christopher]

Very nice video!

I understand why you used OEM control arms, but could you address why you went with the (way more expensive) OEM axles on an old car like that?

I ask because I know there is a significant price difference between Honda shafts and remans from a parts store. Do the OEM axles guarantee they will be perfectly balanced unlike cheap remans?

[EricTheCarGuy]

[quote=”c918″ post=145005]Very nice video!

I understand why you used OEM control arms, but could you address why you went with the (way more expensive) OEM axles on an old car like that?

I ask because I know there is a significant price difference between Honda shafts and remans from a parts store. Do the OEM axles guarantee they will be perfectly balanced unlike cheap remans?[/quote]

I didn’t use OEM axles. In fact, you can’t even purchase complete axles from Honda.

[Christopher]

Oh. I was under the impression you did because it looked like you had long boxes with Honda stickers on it.

What axles did you end up using?

[James O’Hara]

You mentioned you always seem to have problems with cotter pins. My dad told me a way to remove them that has only not worked twice in like 400- 500 cotter pins. First use a small pry bar or very large screwdriver and bend them as straight as you can like I see you normally do.

Now I do not know why but, Channellock brand is the only one that this works with. You will destroy any other brand very quickly Klien, Milwaukee, etc. You want their Linesman Pliers I believe it might have something to do with the Knife-And-Anvil Cutting Edge. You do not want the XLT as the joint is weaker because you are not going to be using it traditionally. You also do not want to do this with dikes or side cutters it will ruin them even if they are Channel Locks. Believe me I have seen people try to mimic me doing this and it destroys their tool. You also do not want the ones with the combination and/or built in wire strippers. They do have a more cushioned grip version but, I tend to like just the plastic dipped handles so I have no idea how good they are.

Once you get them bent out some you can get to bend the rest of the way with the linesman because of the thickness of the nose. Then once fairly straight i squeeze them together with the pliers and twist my wrist one way or another and get them almost perfect.

Then use the wire cutting part and squeeze it on the eye side some so it digs in slightly roughly 1/3 to 1/4 the thickness of the cotter pin and leverage the pliers against whatever the bolt is going through or the nut/bolt if you cant do the other way this will create your fulcrum. You may have to choke up on the pin some to gain your folcrum back and re-dig in with the cutting edge of the pliers on the cotter pin in the new location closer to the bolt/stud but, it will normally come out with little to no effort this way.

Like I said using any other brand or type of pliers often results in broken cutting edges or loose joints. It is up to you but, like I said above I rarely if ever have problems doing it this way. Just don’t squeeze so hard you cut them. Also with the way the cross hatching is on the Channellock linesmen and with them being that stout at the nose if you do you can normally grab and pull the two pins out if you do accidentally cut it. Just make sure to blow the cross hatching out from time to time as they tend to get packed with grease because cutter pins are normally near grease.

[EricTheCarGuy]

[quote=”c918″ post=145012]Oh. I was under the impression you did because it looked like you had long boxes with Honda stickers on it.

What axles did you end up using?[/quote]

Nope, they were just auto parts store axles. Can’t remember the brand.

[EricTheCarGuy]

[quote=”MDK22″ post=145088]You mentioned you always seem to have problems with cotter pins. My dad told me a way to remove them that has only not worked twice in like 400- 500 cotter pins. First use a small pry bar or very large screwdriver and bend them as straight as you can like I see you normally do.

Now I do not know why but, Channellock brand is the only one that this works with. You will destroy any other brand very quickly Klien, Milwaukee, etc. You want their Linesman Pliers I believe it might have something to do with the Knife-And-Anvil Cutting Edge. You do not want the XLT as the joint is weaker because you are not going to be using it traditionally. You also do not want to do this with dikes or side cutters it will ruin them even if they are Channel Locks. Believe me I have seen people try to mimic me doing this and it destroys their tool. You also do not want the ones with the combination and/or built in wire strippers. They do have a more cushioned grip version but, I tend to like just the plastic dipped handles so I have no idea how good they are.

Once you get them bent out some you can get to bend the rest of the way with the linesman because of the thickness of the nose. Then once fairly straight i squeeze them together with the pliers and twist my wrist one way or another and get them almost perfect.

Then use the wire cutting part and squeeze it on the eye side some so it digs in slightly roughly 1/3 to 1/4 the thickness of the cotter pin and leverage the pliers against whatever the bolt is going through or the nut/bolt if you cant do the other way this will create your fulcrum. You may have to choke up on the pin some to gain your folcrum back and re-dig in with the cutting edge of the pliers on the cotter pin in the new location closer to the bolt/stud but, it will normally come out with little to no effort this way.

Like I said using any other brand or type of pliers often results in broken cutting edges or loose joints. It is up to you but, like I said above I rarely if ever have problems doing it this way. Just don’t squeeze so hard you cut them. Also with the way the cross hatching is on the Channellock linesmen and with them being that stout at the nose if you do you can normally grab and pull the two pins out if you do accidentally cut it. Just make sure to blow the cross hatching out from time to time as they tend to get packed with grease because cutter pins are normally near grease.[/quote]

Thanks for the tip. The only time I have issues is when I ‘run them over’ because I can’t get them out. I have trouble knocking out the remains with a punch afterward. I normally don’t have issues when I just use my side cutters. I believe in a similar way as to what you described.

Thanks for the suggestion.

[ratdude747]

Question for Eric:

I noticed you mentioned issues with aftermarket suspension parts. In your opinion, is this more of a “companies can’t get honda quirks specs right” issue or a “companies can’t get anybody’s specs right”?

Also, in non-honda applications, has this bad brand of strut given you or anybody you know of trouble? If this is the brand I’m thinking of (same name as the last name of a british musician who wrote a song titled after a really heavy hitting device), I have a rusty pair of their shocks on the back of my ford ranger and while thier not bad, shocks aren’t that expensive. Off-topic: The front shocks are red with no branding anywhere (looked to have been changed not long before I bought the truck this time last year)… is this ford motorcraft or some other brand?

[EricTheCarGuy]

[quote=”ratdude747″ post=145161]Question for Eric:

I noticed you mentioned issues with aftermarket suspension parts. In your opinion, is this more of a “companies can’t get honda quirks specs right” issue or a “companies can’t get anybody’s specs right”?

Also, in non-honda applications, has this bad brand of strut given you or anybody you know of trouble? If this is the brand I’m thinking of (same name as the last name of a british musician who wrote a song titled after a really heavy hitting device), I have a rusty pair of their shocks on the back of my ford ranger and while thier not bad, shocks aren’t that expensive. Off-topic: The front shocks are red with no branding anywhere (looked to have been changed not long before I bought the truck this time last year)… is this ford motorcraft or some other brand?[/quote]

I believe Showa makes the OE struts for Honda. They’re high quality and well made. The brand that was on the Vigor I believe makes OE dampers for VW. Application is everything in my opinion. I’ve put just about every brand of strut on Hondas and have NEVER found anything that works better or lasts longer than OE.

[ratdude747]

[quote=”EricTheCarGuy” post=145176][quote=”ratdude747″ post=145161]Question for Eric:

I noticed you mentioned issues with aftermarket suspension parts. In your opinion, is this more of a “companies can’t get honda quirks specs right” issue or a “companies can’t get anybody’s specs right”?

Also, in non-honda applications, has this bad brand of strut given you or anybody you know of trouble? If this is the brand I’m thinking of (same name as the last name of a british musician who wrote a song titled after a really heavy hitting device), I have a rusty pair of their shocks on the back of my ford ranger and while thier not bad, shocks aren’t that expensive. Off-topic: The front shocks are red with no branding anywhere (looked to have been changed not long before I bought the truck this time last year)… is this ford motorcraft or some other brand?[/quote]

I believe Showa makes the OE struts for Honda. They’re high quality and well made. The brand that was on the Vigor I believe makes OE dampers for VW. Application is everything in my opinion. I’ve put just about every brand of strut on Hondas and have NEVER found anything that works better or lasts longer than OE.[/quote]

Yeah, as Honda has owned a significant part of Showa for awhile. Fun fact: Showa got their start doing aircraft dampers in WWII; it was de-militarization of Japan that led them to automotive dampers and in turn to be the maker for Honda (and IIRC that may all they make?) Subaru also has their roots in aviation (engines; hence their exclusive use of boxer engines`); I don’t recall if this goes back to the pre-WWII era off the top of my head.

edit- from what I can tell there is only one brand of strut that begins with a G… and the mystery front shocks also appear to be this brand…

[Jason White]

I was surprised that things went so well considering the rust. A seized, crossthreaded, stripped, or God forbid a spinner can make a simple job into an ordeal. One thing that separates the great mechanics from the average is the ability to deal with these things. It’s also improtant to be able to keep your cool when these things happen, and they do.

About the OE vs Aftermarket. One advantage of working at a dealership over independent is not having to deal with the problems with aftermarket parts. The OE part has been engineered for that application, the aftermarket is a “one size fits all” part that has been modified to fit the application. Of course there are the gray areas where it’s the factory part with another name stamped on it. It’s like a taylored suit vs. one that you buy off a shelf. My Chevy Silverado has 274K miles on it and I only use OE parts and it drives really good for a vehicle of it’s age and miles.

The only thing I kind of disagree with Eric is the Alignment issue. There is a good chance the toe is way off now. If the steering wheel is off after doing this type of thing, it’s definately off. If it’s in the same position, you might have lucked out, but watch the tire wear.

[EricTheCarGuy]

[quote=”Jasonw1178″ post=145209]I was surprised that things went so well considering the rust. A seized, crossthreaded, stripped, or God forbid a spinner can make a simple job into an ordeal. One thing that separates the great mechanics from the average is the ability to deal with these things. It’s also improtant to be able to keep your cool when these things happen, and they do.

About the OE vs Aftermarket. One advantage of working at a dealership over independent is not having to deal with the problems with aftermarket parts. The OE part has been engineered for that application, the aftermarket is a “one size fits all” part that has been modified to fit the application. Of course there are the gray areas where it’s the factory part with another name stamped on it. It’s like a taylored suit vs. one that you buy off a shelf. My Chevy Silverado has 274K miles on it and I only use OE parts and it drives really good for a vehicle of it’s age and miles.

The only thing I kind of disagree with Eric is the Alignment issue. There is a good chance the toe is way off now. If the steering wheel is off after doing this type of thing, it’s definately off. If it’s in the same position, you might have lucked out, but watch the tire wear.[/quote]

I serviced this car at the dealership years ago before I bought it. In fact, I replaced the coil springs at one point. That probably explains the ‘ease’ of the job.

I actually did a video about aftermarket parts.

As for the alignment, I never did anything that would effect the toe adjustment. Had I done something with the tie rods that would be one thing, but I hadn’t. Also, it’s best to do an alignment after you install new tires (which I plan to do soon). Aligning a vehicle with old tires is a waste of time in my opinion. That said, I stand by my statement that after the work I did the alignment would not be effected. Struts do not support the weight of the vehicle, the springs do. Had I changed the springs that might be a different story, but even if I had, the angles that would effect would not be adjustable on this vehicle. Only the toe is adjustable and as stated, I did nothing to effect the toe adjustment with these repairs.

Thanks for your input.

[Author]

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