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In Tennessee, we sure do like our pick-up trucks. I’m telling you… you just can’t seem to be an authentic Tennessee-an without one.
Times were that you could get a decent pick-up for around 2500-3,000 and it’ d be relatively low miles (150k or so). Now? Holy crap, I’m seeing people ask north of 8 k for a truck with over 200,000 on it!
The paradigm used to be that the car would be replaced after 100,000 miles or so. But ever since ‘Cash for Clunkers’ came and went, the used market simply seemingly evaporated. Friend of mine is seeking to find a pick-up for work, and… well, without providing links to Craigslist ads, one I went to see yesterday seems symptomatic.
6,000 for a 2003 Ford F150 4WD with 200,000 miles on it. The pictures LOOK great. I had high hopes, until I laid eyes on it. The 4WD.. didn’t. If you TRIED to put it in 4WD mode, it sounded like you were trying to turn a cow inside-out using nothing more than barbed wire and a rock grinder. The rocker panels on the driver’s side were just plain GONE, and the passenger side wasn’t far away. The back brake calipers were barely recognizable, due to them being appropriately placed blobs of rust. The drive-shafts were thoroughly rusted, and the transfer-case was fused solid.
The guy thought he was doing me a favor selling it to me at that price.
Another one was almost as amusing.
2000 Mazda B3000 (Ford Ranger). 135000 miles, so that was good. Price was 5500. Ok, low miles so maybe not horrifying. Well, then I get there. 1/2 of the radiator filler neck was taken up with caked brown residue… a full helping of Barr’s Stop Leak. The over-flow bottle was empty and caked with brown sludge. The guy had to top off engine coolant ONCE A WEEK. The exhaust had been hacked up, and the tailpipe now came out right underneath the passenger cabin on the passenger side. THe car reeked of cleaning fluid, and you could still smell something that was NOT tobacco.
2005 Nissan Frontier. 6500 asking price, 155000 miles. This had aluminum metallic flakes in the radiator bottle. The steering wheel was canted 45 degrees off straight. Someone had hacked on a lift kit, and the driveshafts were cocked at 45 degree angles out of the transfer case and then 45 in the other direction to the hub. This thing was a Grecian TRAGEDY.
So, what gives? Is this just greed.. people wanting more than their vehicle is worth? Or is my own sense of value skewed.. and this literally is the way it is, these days?
Me personally, I’m beginning to wonder if the entire used car paradigm hasn’t changed. Maybe now if the body is good enough, and the engine passes away, you just dump a new engine in it. Same for the transmission. And brakes, and etc, etc, etc. Because holy crap, NEW trucks these days are stupid-expensive.. and you just can’t seem to find a good, reliable used one anymore.
What do you all think?
-Hinoki
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Trucks have gotten incredibly popular and alot of people just buy them nowadays to say that they have one.
4WD trucks are always at a premium, even though 2WD is better for towing and hauling on the pavement on dry ground.
I have 3, all made before 2000 and two of them have appreciated considerably(the 74′ and 55′).
The 98′ dodge still fetches 4k…for a 17 year old truck with average mileage! Of course I didn’t get it for that much, I got it for half that and fixed the issues myself.
Yeah, I think people are simply asking too much. I’ve noticed trucks are pricey as well.
I sold my 98 Cummins ram for $13,000 about a year ago. I was dumbfounded I was offered that for a truck more than a decade old.
I wonder if this is a good thing. From some perspectives it is, because…
Cost of 2016 Ford F-150 with a 3.5 V6: 30,000.00
I guess if the body is solid, then why NOT drop a motor/trans in? 6500 in engine/trans seems a lot better than 30k to replace the truck. So long as you keep up on the maintenance, it should last you a good long while, right?
That folds back into the other thought. Find a solid body older truck, and so long as it has the features you want and it’s in good body-shape, electrical, etc.. then wouldn’t it still be worth it to buy and fix?
I dunno. Been one of those days at work and maybe I’m just not seeing straight any more. I just can’t see forking over 30-40k for a truck when you can get an older one and fix it for a whole heck of a lot less.
Hinoki
Like in any market, prices are largely determined through supply and demand. And when it comes to trucks, there are a few differences from the general used car market.
The first of which is this: In most cases a truck – of pretty much whatever description – can be used to help someone make their living in a way that most cars can’t. If you want to set up as a plumber; or a landscaper; a carpenter; an electrician; or a home remodeler – you kind of need a truck of some kind. To haul sheets of plywood or sheetrock. Carry your lawnmowers or pick up boxes of parts at the salvage yard.
Most used cars don’t have that utility. If you want to set up as a Uber driver – you are limited to at least a very fresh late-model sedan. A beat-up 2004 Acura Vigor has limited uses. You can’t haul plywood with it. You can’t use it as a taxicab. Its good for basic transportation, and in that role its questionable reliability cuts into its value. A car that’ll get you to your job reliably 95% of the time is more of a liability than anything.
The other factor is supply. And truck owners tend to hold onto their vehicles longer than people hold onto cars. The generally heavier-duty engines, transmissions, suspensions and bodies of trucks makes this possible. Its only when the cost of repairs greatly exceeds the value of the vehicle that many truck owners put them up for sale. And even in somewhat dilapidated condition – with broken 4WD systems and rusted out brake drums – a beaten up old truck still has an inherent value as a cargo hauler, even if used only sporadically, rather than as a daily driver.
And people called me crazy for asking $1,500.00 for my 88 chevy half ton reg cab 4×4. I just rebuilt the top end of the motor (5.7 L tbi) and it had less than 1,000 miles on a rebuilt trans. plus the 4 wheel drive worked perfect.
Well, my pickup is from Tennessee. It made its way from TN to PA and I got it for $6200. It’s an 07′ F-150 Regular Cab Short Bed V6 5 speed 2WD. There are a lot of “undesirable” features there. Regular Cab — Everyone loves their crew cabs. Short bed — not good for hauling too much, but enough. V6 — people fear the Ford 4.2 even though the issues were all fixed as of 2004. 5 speed — Nobody knows how to drive them anymore. 2WD — nobody wants a 2WD if there’s a rough PA winter; forgetting that 300 pounds of sand over the rear axle pus good tires will get you almost as far.
Additionally, there were a few things wrong with it when I bought it. Headlights didn’t work (owner messed with them). It was FILTHY inside and out. Light sideswipe on the Passenger side. It needed new tires on the back. Mechanically it is perfect. It was just a bit neglected. So I think that’s why I got a good deal.
In PA, trucks rust quickly. Anything older than 2005 usually has rust issues already. Yet they STILL hold their values for all of the reasons listed above. Utility, people just like trucks, etc.
Just keep looking around. I love craigslist. Got both of my trucks off of there. You just gotta know what you are looking for and know what to inspect.
The older trucks are built better than the newer trucks, they last forever provided they don’t succumb to the rust monster. I have had multiple trucks, all from different eras. Even my current fleet shows the progression of degradation.
1955 Chevy: Solid sheetmetal(more like plate metal), thickest metal I’ve ever had on a truck. engine is original, has only been rebuilt once. Manual transmission has never been touched and still shifts great. 60 year old truck all original.
1974 Chevy: Decent thickness sheetmetal, original engine has been rebuilt twice, manual transmission still shifts great, wiring has had to be redone and floors have had to be fixed from rot (floors are thinner than the 55′). 41 year old truck, mostly original
1998 Dodge: Sheetmetal is 50% thinner than the 74′, more rust in less time(17 years), engine still running strong(318 with FI), auto tranny shifts good(OD 727) basically all old school mechanical components from dodges heyday.
2008 Chevy(No longer have this truck): Sheetmetal was paper thin…just looking at it made it crease and ding, engine had a misfire at 40,000 miles, transmission started going out at 51,000 miles, brakes didn’t last more than 30,000 miles, frame looked like it had been underwater after 4 years, bed dinged from the lightest loads shifting, brake drums couldn’t even be resurfaced, paint was thin and chipped easily, wheels oxidized after 2 years, among other things.
Boys, they just don’t make things like they used to. New trucks ain’t worth the money they ask for.
They are becoming as disposable as cars, take the new F150 for example, my coworker has one and he says they have to be resealed every 5 years to prevent the paint from peeling off the aluminum body! He says he won’t own the truck for that long.
The times they are a changin’.
Is it also possible the number of vehicles totaled by insurance companies due to flooding caused by hurricanes and other tropical storms have eliminated a large number of vehicles destined for the secondary market?
Anyone have a similar thought?
Cash for clunkers killed the used car market and the price of a good used car went up for this reason.My dad is an used car dealer and he lost half of his used car profits during cash for clunkers.The used car market,Fords are the worst to sell.My dad won’t have a Ford on his used car lot,loses money on them and nothing but money pits.Plus Ford has no resale value at all and is proven in the auction reports.Since VW got busted for the emissions tampering,the prices of them went down the toilet in the auction.Then there are the people that want a grand and below car,won’t find them since they are a pile of junk most of the time.These usually go to the scrap yard sold for crush,not right now since the price of crush went down the toilet.
have always found Older is better for trucks. 🙂
I own a 1970 C10 (RWD) 350/ T350). Bought for $900. It started/ stopped and I was able to limp it home. Was worth it just for that price. There is rust no doubt, but I have seen way worse. Collectors would want to do a full rotisserie rebuild but I wanted a driver I wasn’t scared to get scratched.
For $1000 more I have in into it now, I got:
New Brake Master Cylinder, New Fuel Pump, New Carb, New front and rear lines and , hoses, New fan belts, Oil and filter change, bulbs, paint job (rattle can green special! 🙂 ) , new wipers, metal for rust patches, new bench seat cover, Blower motor switch, Original Factory Service manual, new plugs, new brake fluid, 2 new to me rear 31 inch tires. and I am sure a bunch of other stuff I’m forgetting. It took me from 1 end of the truck to the other. A newer one would have been over budget at the first wheel.Many of these things are mechanical and or just needed cleaning or servicing. All of it done in the open air as I don’t have a garage. Heck I am just a novice girl here too.. This rig was made back when a trucks were meant to be tough, dependable and easy to fix, in exchange for the no frills ride. I’m happy I have factory power brakes and steering which meant it was upper class of the day. The 1970 design came with the idea that people were proud owners and enjoyed servicing a vehicle with a few wrenches and a grease gun. I’m just happy I grabbed my own little piece of that time capsule before its completely gone. I feel its as safe as most other trucks here and is my daily driver. It still has things that need attention but they are all minor things.
I think truck cabs today are made for grocery getting and their beds are designed for more soccer balls not sheet rock. I prefer the single cab Long wheel base with 8 foot bed but they seem to be rare finds these days. I am not a contractor mind you, but I appreciate having a truck that was made for one. I don’t have a mirror in the sun visor but I can check my lipstick when I get to where I’m going, because the truck will make it there in the first place. 😛 I bump along at 65 on the highway and get passed by everyone sure, that’s because 65 was a fast speed for 1970 roads here, The 2015 rat race is different. The buyers and dealers and market have given up the old ways of what a truck was for if you ask me. Grab something older I say and hang onto it. At least your investment (provided its not computerized) has a chance to go up in value the longer you have it. Money well spent.
[quote=”gsr-chick” post=151861]have always found Older is better for trucks. 🙂
I own a 1970 C10 (RWD) 350/ T350). Bought for $900. It started/ stopped and I was able to limp it home. Was worth it just for that price. There is rust no doubt, but I have seen way worse. Collectors would want to do a full rotisserie rebuild but I wanted a driver I wasn’t scared to get scratched.
For $1000 more I have in into it now, I got:
New Brake Master Cylinder, New Fuel Pump, New Carb, New front and rear lines and , hoses, New fan belts, Oil and filter change, bulbs, paint job (rattle can green special! 🙂 ) , new wipers, metal for rust patches, new bench seat cover, Blower motor switch, Original Factory Service manual, new plugs, new brake fluid, 2 new to me rear 31 inch tires. and I am sure a bunch of other stuff I’m forgetting. It took me from 1 end of the truck to the other. A newer one would have been over budget at the first wheel.Many of these things are mechanical and or just needed cleaning or servicing. All of it done in the open air as I don’t have a garage. Heck I am just a novice girl here too.. This rig was made back when a trucks were meant to be tough, dependable and easy to fix, in exchange for the no frills ride. I’m happy I have factory power brakes and steering which meant it was upper class of the day. The 1970 design came with the idea that people were proud owners and enjoyed servicing a vehicle with a few wrenches and a grease gun. I’m just happy I grabbed my own little piece of that time capsule before its completely gone. I feel its as safe as most other trucks here and is my daily driver. It still has things that need attention but they are all minor things.
I think truck cabs today are made for grocery getting and their beds are designed for more soccer balls not sheet rock. I prefer the single cab Long wheel base with 8 foot bed but they seem to be rare finds these days. I am not a contractor mind you, but I appreciate having a truck that was made for one. I don’t have a mirror in the sun visor but I can check my lipstick when I get to where I’m going, because the truck will make it there in the first place. 😛 I bump along at 65 on the highway and get passed by everyone sure, that’s because 65 was a fast speed for 1970 roads here, The 2015 rat race is different. The buyers and dealers and market have given up the old ways of what a truck was for if you ask me. Grab something older I say and hang onto it. At least your investment (provided its not computerized) has a chance to go up in value the longer you have it. Money well spent.[/quote]
Pretty much, I would say the 90s were when trucks began the shift from utility and hard work to brodozers and grocery getters.
Thin sheet metal, beer can frames, pathetic gearing, no manual transmissions, luxury and electronics galore. The age of the honest pickup is over. About the only good thing that added for contractors are bigger center consoles as well as more storage space in cab.
The GMT400(Chevy/GMC), second generation ram, and the mid 90s F150’s were the last of the real work trucks. Chevy and Ford were done making real work trucks by 2000 and the second gen ram ended around 2001. Heavy duty models excluded for all three.
Even they aren’t as solid as the trucks from further past.
[quote=”Chevyman21″ post=151890][quote=”gsr-chick” post=151861]have always found Older is better for trucks. 🙂
I own a 1970 C10 (RWD) 350/ T350). Bought for $900. It started/ stopped and I was able to limp it home. Was worth it just for that price. There is rust no doubt, but I have seen way worse. Collectors would want to do a full rotisserie rebuild but I wanted a driver I wasn’t scared to get scratched.
For $1000 more I have in into it now, I got:
New Brake Master Cylinder, New Fuel Pump, New Carb, New front and rear lines and , hoses, New fan belts, Oil and filter change, bulbs, paint job (rattle can green special! 🙂 ) , new wipers, metal for rust patches, new bench seat cover, Blower motor switch, Original Factory Service manual, new plugs, new brake fluid, 2 new to me rear 31 inch tires. and I am sure a bunch of other stuff I’m forgetting. It took me from 1 end of the truck to the other. A newer one would have been over budget at the first wheel.Many of these things are mechanical and or just needed cleaning or servicing. All of it done in the open air as I don’t have a garage. Heck I am just a novice girl here too.. This rig was made back when a trucks were meant to be tough, dependable and easy to fix, in exchange for the no frills ride. I’m happy I have factory power brakes and steering which meant it was upper class of the day. The 1970 design came with the idea that people were proud owners and enjoyed servicing a vehicle with a few wrenches and a grease gun. I’m just happy I grabbed my own little piece of that time capsule before its completely gone. I feel its as safe as most other trucks here and is my daily driver. It still has things that need attention but they are all minor things.
I think truck cabs today are made for grocery getting and their beds are designed for more soccer balls not sheet rock. I prefer the single cab Long wheel base with 8 foot bed but they seem to be rare finds these days. I am not a contractor mind you, but I appreciate having a truck that was made for one. I don’t have a mirror in the sun visor but I can check my lipstick when I get to where I’m going, because the truck will make it there in the first place. 😛 I bump along at 65 on the highway and get passed by everyone sure, that’s because 65 was a fast speed for 1970 roads here, The 2015 rat race is different. The buyers and dealers and market have given up the old ways of what a truck was for if you ask me. Grab something older I say and hang onto it. At least your investment (provided its not computerized) has a chance to go up in value the longer you have it. Money well spent.[/quote]
Pretty much, I would say the 90s were when trucks began the shift from utility and hard work to brodozers and grocery getters.
Thin sheet metal, beer can frames, pathetic gearing, no manual transmissions, luxury and electronics galore. The age of the honest pickup is over. About the only good thing that added for contractors are bigger center consoles as well as more storage space in cab.
The GMT400(Chevy/GMC), second generation ram, and the mid 90s F150’s were the last of the real work trucks. Chevy and Ford were done making real work trucks by 2000 and the second gen ram ended around 2001. Heavy duty models excluded for all three.
Even they aren’t as solid as the trucks from further past.[/quote]
There was a lot said here, and I would like to reply briefly. The old ways of the truck are gone for sure.
Now, you have to have an automatic for some strange reason. You can still get wind up windows, though, but not manual door locks. At least on Chevys. Even the most basic new 2014/5 Silverado’s are $25k. That’s too much.
IMO, real trucks died in the mid/late 2000’s. By 2007 GM got rid of manuals, by 2009 Ford tossed them, too. My F-150 has 1 option: A/C. And I love my A/C. This is a 2007, mind you. So it’s pretty basic. 2WD, V6, stick. No power interior options.
I’m not real familiar with older trucks i.e. before 1995. Probably because I’m a younger guy. But I do hate that trucks are lifestyle vehicles now rather than work vehicles. If you want a luxury vehicle, buy one. I do see why people migrated to luxury trucks though. The large American sedan is all but dead. So people want the interior room/size and they went to trucks. It sucks but that’s the way it is. They are just lifestyle vehicles now. It’s gross. What I really don’t like are the jacked up 4×4 crew cab huge tires and possibly a diesel just to tool around to the mall. Use a truck for what it was made for! And if you’re not using it for work, at least buy a basic one.
Kind of a rant, but I figure we are all of a similar mind here.
[quote=”Hockeyclark” post=151891][quote=”Chevyman21″ post=151890][/quote]
Pretty much, I would say the 90s were when trucks began the shift from utility and hard work to brodozers and grocery getters.
Thin sheet metal, beer can frames, pathetic gearing, no manual transmissions, luxury and electronics galore. The age of the honest pickup is over. About the only good thing that added for contractors are bigger center consoles as well as more storage space in cab.
The GMT400(Chevy/GMC), second generation ram, and the mid 90s F150’s were the last of the real work trucks. Chevy and Ford were done making real work trucks by 2000 and the second gen ram ended around 2001. Heavy duty models excluded for all three.
Even they aren’t as solid as the trucks from further past.[/quote]
[quote=”Hockeyclark” post=151891] There was a lot said here, and I would like to reply briefly. The old ways of the truck are gone for sure.
Now, you have to have an automatic for some strange reason. You can still get wind up windows, though, but not manual door locks. At least on Chevys. Even the most basic new 2014/5 Silverado’s are $25k. That’s too much.
IMO, real trucks died in the mid/late 2000’s. By 2007 GM got rid of manuals, by 2009 Ford tossed them, too. My F-150 has 1 option: A/C. And I love my A/C. This is a 2007, mind you. So it’s pretty basic. 2WD, V6, stick. No power interior options.
I’m not real familiar with older trucks i.e. before 1995. Probably because I’m a younger guy. But I do hate that trucks are lifestyle vehicles now rather than work vehicles. If you want a luxury vehicle, buy one. I do see why people migrated to luxury trucks though. The large American sedan is all but dead. So people want the interior room/size and they went to trucks. It sucks but that’s the way it is. They are just lifestyle vehicles now. It’s gross. What I really don’t like are the jacked up 4×4 crew cab huge tires and possibly a diesel just to tool around to the mall. Use a truck for what it was made for! And if you’re not using it for work, at least buy a basic one.
Kind of a rant, but I figure we are all of a similar mind here.[/quote]
We call those jacked diesels that never see offroad conditions brodozers or mall crawlers. The giant lift defeats any utility they once had.
I’m a younger guy myself(mid twenties), but an older friend of mine as well as my dad got me into the old stuff, especially trucks.
When you compare a 40s, 50s, 60s or 70s truck to todays “trucks” you will see what I mean. The 40s trucks are all work all the time, conservative styling and no frills, jus an honest pickup. The 50s trucks had the most style of any decade just like the 50s cars. The 60s/70s trucks gained more power(due to big V8s) than previous trucks and went back to more simplistic styling.
This is a very simplistic comparison. I could get into metal quality and thickness, engine block thickness and casting quality, overall reliability, cab and drivetrain configurations and more.
The sheetmetal on anything made after 1999 is like a beer can. Despite being galvanized, they still rot out due to being paper thin and not having a good steel alloy. Back in the day you could use more chrome and nickel as well as lead as allowying elements, all which inhibit corrosion due to atomic mass.
New trucks are built to conform to fuel, safety and emission standards, none of which older trucks had to comply with.[quote=”Hockeyclark” post=151930]I just call any big jacked up truck that doesn’t see off road a compensator.[/quote] Typically also built with mommy and daddy’s money as well. I can respect a guy who builds his own truck more than one who uses someone else money and sources it out for obvious reasons.
Remember the ricer imports from the 200Xs? Since all those old hondas and toyotas are no longer as plentiful, and affordable as they once were the import ricer gig is on it’s way out. The new generation of ricers are diesel truck owners who buy a diesel just to say they have one and use their parents money to “soup it up” so they can show off to their butt buddies.
Here are 438 pages full of exihibit A-Z and everything in between: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general-chit-chat/888239-diesel-trucks-ricers-future-438.html
The thread started in 2010 and is still going to this day.
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