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Ah, yes Toyota, a name that brings millions of Americans peace of mind. They know that if they buy a Toyota they are getting reliability and a guarantee of quality workmanship. Toyota and Lexus banners brazenly boast “LOWEST PRICE OF OWNERSHIP!!” and the masses are all too eager to eat that slogan up.
I’m here to tell you that today’s Toyota is not your parents Toyota — their quality has quietly been declining since 2007 in my opinion. In the shop I am constantly baffled by the issues newer Toyota’s are having. Prius’s and Highlanders are burning tons of oil at 50,000 miles, Prius’s are having weird electrical issues, transmissions are shifting oddly clunky for how old the car is. The Scion brand especially have more problems than you would expect. The FRS especially is plagued with a few gremlins such as faulty injectors, which STILL haven’t been hammered out by Toyota/Subaru. I’ve also seen a few cars leaking oil with less than 75,000 miles.
Has anyone else been noticing this shocking downward spiral in Toyota’s quality?
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My brother has a Honda van an I think its made somewhere in the US. Still garbage, regardless of where it comes from. The last good quality Hondas were made in Japan about 25 years ago, and at the time I had no problem with that, as I have owned foreign cars, but anymore there are good and bad cars made everywhere. People talk about Chevy citations and how bad they were, but cannot name a specific reason, and yes they were bad, reason not listed here, however that was a long time ago but they still use that as excuse to get some import thats got body panels like popcan metal. People rip on Vegas, knowing nothing about them, rip on Pintos, knowing not why they had fire problems, there are certain comsumers who will come up with some or any silly story as to why they favor imports. Bunch of Hogwash anymore. Speaking honestly, Chrysler has been second rate since the late 70s. I remember seeing a new Superbird, bright orange, no miles on the lot downtown. Few years later I saw Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth dealership fill up with Crickets, Sopporos, Arrows, and Colts, (good grief those were bad) and all this other rebadged mitsubishi rolling trash and that was in the 70s BEFORE the Kcar. Mopar started sucking first.
[quote=”1994FordF-150″ post=126864]My Parents have a 2008 Scion Xb with around 90,000 miles, it goes through a quart of oil every 500-750 miles now… My 94 F-150 with the 300 I6, and 110,000 miles (fairly low mileage for a vehicle of that vintage but still enough to set an example) burns no oil at all and is my daily driver. I’d say the last of true American quality was in the late 60’s and early 70’s though. before California had all the emission controls added on. (luckily the I6 has been around since ’65 so the quality is similar to those days but emissions controls caused them to cease production in ’96)[/quote]
Scion xbs are notorious for burning oil. Toyota won’t say so themselves, but everyone who works on them KNOWS these things burn lots of oil. I saw an XB that was burning oil at 40,000 miles the other day. Prius’s and certain Tacoma’s, Runners and Highlanders are notorious for burning oil as well. The Scion FRS/Subaru BRZ has well documented injector issues, the valve cover gasket on Camry’s are notorious for leaking like a sieve, the Lexus 4GR FSE engine suffers from severe carbon build up problems.[quote=”Pithy Radish” post=127549][quote=”1994FordF-150″ post=126864]My Parents have a 2008 Scion Xb with around 90,000 miles, it goes through a quart of oil every 500-750 miles now… My 94 F-150 with the 300 I6, and 110,000 miles (fairly low mileage for a vehicle of that vintage but still enough to set an example) burns no oil at all and is my daily driver. I’d say the last of true American quality was in the late 60’s and early 70’s though. before California had all the emission controls added on. (luckily the I6 has been around since ’65 so the quality is similar to those days but emissions controls caused them to cease production in ’96)[/quote]
Scion xbs are notorious for burning oil. Toyota won’t say so themselves, but everyone who works on them KNOWS these things burn lots of oil. I saw an XB that was burning oil at 40,000 miles the other day. Prius’s and certain Tacoma’s, Runners and Highlanders are notorious for burning oil as well. The Scion FRS/Subaru BRZ has well documented injector issues, the valve cover gasket on Camry’s are notorious for leaking like a sieve, the Lexus 4GR FSE engine suffers from severe carbon build up problems.[/quote] The newer Toyota 4 cyls in any vehicle have that issue(scions, rav4s, camry etc.). The reason is a poorly designed oil system. Toyota actually has a TSB out on the issue so they are fully aware of it.[quote=”Chevyman21″ post=127554][quote=”Pithy Radish” post=127549][quote=”1994FordF-150″ post=126864]My Parents have a 2008 Scion Xb with around 90,000 miles, it goes through a quart of oil every 500-750 miles now… My 94 F-150 with the 300 I6, and 110,000 miles (fairly low mileage for a vehicle of that vintage but still enough to set an example) burns no oil at all and is my daily driver. I’d say the last of true American quality was in the late 60’s and early 70’s though. before California had all the emission controls added on. (luckily the I6 has been around since ’65 so the quality is similar to those days but emissions controls caused them to cease production in ’96)[/quote]
Scion xbs are notorious for burning oil. Toyota won’t say so themselves, but everyone who works on them KNOWS these things burn lots of oil. I saw an XB that was burning oil at 40,000 miles the other day. Prius’s and certain Tacoma’s, Runners and Highlanders are notorious for burning oil as well. The Scion FRS/Subaru BRZ has well documented injector issues, the valve cover gasket on Camry’s are notorious for leaking like a sieve, the Lexus 4GR FSE engine suffers from severe carbon build up problems.[/quote] The newer Toyota 4 cyls in any vehicle have that issue(scions, rav4s, camry etc.). The reason is a poorly designed oil system. Toyota actually has a TSB out on the issue so they are fully aware of it.[/quote]
I’m beginning to think that my service manager is just an a**hole.[quote=”Pithy Radish” post=127637][quote=”Chevyman21″ post=127554][quote=”Pithy Radish” post=127549][quote=”1994FordF-150″ post=126864]My Parents have a 2008 Scion Xb with around 90,000 miles, it goes through a quart of oil every 500-750 miles now… My 94 F-150 with the 300 I6, and 110,000 miles (fairly low mileage for a vehicle of that vintage but still enough to set an example) burns no oil at all and is my daily driver. I’d say the last of true American quality was in the late 60’s and early 70’s though. before California had all the emission controls added on. (luckily the I6 has been around since ’65 so the quality is similar to those days but emissions controls caused them to cease production in ’96)[/quote]
Scion xbs are notorious for burning oil. Toyota won’t say so themselves, but everyone who works on them KNOWS these things burn lots of oil. I saw an XB that was burning oil at 40,000 miles the other day. Prius’s and certain Tacoma’s, Runners and Highlanders are notorious for burning oil as well. The Scion FRS/Subaru BRZ has well documented injector issues, the valve cover gasket on Camry’s are notorious for leaking like a sieve, the Lexus 4GR FSE engine suffers from severe carbon build up problems.[/quote] The newer Toyota 4 cyls in any vehicle have that issue(scions, rav4s, camry etc.). The reason is a poorly designed oil system. Toyota actually has a TSB out on the issue so they are fully aware of it.[/quote]
I’m beginning to think that my service manager is just an a**hole.[/quote] Call me crazy, but I think upper management in the Toyo dealers and Toyo corporate are in cahoots, it’s like they read from the same dang playbook!I agree with toyotas going down the crapper my parents have owned plenty toyotas, I came home from the hospital in a 93 Camry V6 (that car was a champ) they bought a 4-runner which has given stupid little problems (dashboard cracks and wiper problems) but since working at the dealer I don’t know if it’s owners or the cars themselves but it’s gone downhill the Lexus techs are CONSTANTLY pulling engines on the is250-350 for the carbon build up recall, valve covers leak like it’s going out of business and water pumps are practically guaranteed every day I come to work. The FR-S has some sort of problem with fuel pumps as well..Toyota needs to get it together!
[quote=”Kevin_1500″ post=127822]I agree with toyotas going down the crapper my parents have owned plenty toyotas, I came home from the hospital in a 93 Camry V6 (that car was a champ) they bought a 4-runner which has given stupid little problems (dashboard cracks and wiper problems) but since working at the dealer I don’t know if it’s owners or the cars themselves but it’s gone downhill the Lexus techs are CONSTANTLY pulling engines on the is250-350 for the carbon build up recall, valve covers leak like it’s going out of business and water pumps are practically guaranteed every day I come to work. The FR-S has some sort of problem with fuel pumps as well..Toyota needs to get it together![/quote]
I see FRS’s needing major repairs practically every week. That is sad considering that it came out not that long ago, and there are not many of them around[quote=”Pithy Radish” post=127832][quote=”Kevin_1500″ post=127822]I agree with toyotas going down the crapper my parents have owned plenty toyotas, I came home from the hospital in a 93 Camry V6 (that car was a champ) they bought a 4-runner which has given stupid little problems (dashboard cracks and wiper problems) but since working at the dealer I don’t know if it’s owners or the cars themselves but it’s gone downhill the Lexus techs are CONSTANTLY pulling engines on the is250-350 for the carbon build up recall, valve covers leak like it’s going out of business and water pumps are practically guaranteed every day I come to work. The FR-S has some sort of problem with fuel pumps as well..Toyota needs to get it together![/quote]
I see FRS’s needing major repairs practically every week. That is sad considering that it came out not that long ago, and there are not many of them around[/quote] The smart consumer should never buy the first model year of anything/ the first model after a major redeisgn. The early adopters are the Guinea pigs for the manufacturer in a sense. I guess Toyoscion would rather save on R&D and testing and have the customer do that instead.It has really changed my view of them, on top of all that the FR-S is under selling we have about 80 on the lot that just sit.
[quote=”Kevin_1500″ post=127835]It has really changed my view of them, on top of all that the FR-S is under selling we have about 80 on the lot that just sit.[/quote]
It’s not hard to see why… They only have an anemic 200 horsepower, and 151 ft pounds of torque. The FRS is also overpriced. They cost 27,000 dollars which puts it in the same price range as the 400 horsepower Mustang GT, Camaro, and Challenger, and it even has domestic competition with the 350 horsepower 370z landing squarely in that price range. If the FRS was closer to 20,000 dollars, and perhaps branded as the Toyota Celica I think they might have something.[quote=”Kevin_1500″ post=127835]It has really changed my view of them, on top of all that the FR-S is under selling we have about 80 on the lot that just sit.[/quote] If Chevy, Ford or Mopar did this, the public would never let them hear the end of it. What makes Toyota so special? I have a feeling that what happened to GM and Chrysler will happen to Toyota as well. It’s a vicious cycle. A company gets complacent once they reach a certain point like GM did back in the day(GM at one time had 50% marketshare!) and when the company gets complacent to where they feel they are on the top they start to slip in quality and service…then they go bankrupt when the people catch on. I am a GM guy through and through..but I will admit they made some mistakes and nowdays their quality is superb almost like it was back in the 50s/60s/70s.
The ridiculous part is it has a Subaru boxer engine WITHOUT A turbo. I mean come on! Make a red edition or something at least. It’s absurd, I would pick a genesis 2.0t over that car that’s how bad it is.
[quote=”Kevin_1500″ post=127855]The ridiculous part is it has a Subaru boxer engine WITHOUT A turbo. I mean come on! Make a red edition or something at least. It’s absurd, I would pick a genesis 2.0t over that car that’s how bad it is.[/quote] I wouldn’t get anything with a turbo in it period. We still don’t know how durable these new small displacement turbo fours are. They haven’t had enough time to show their true colors. Turbocharging is for diesels and racing..not fuel mileage. I prefer superchargers anyways B)
[quote=”Chevyman21″ post=127857][quote=”Kevin_1500″ post=127855]The ridiculous part is it has a Subaru boxer engine WITHOUT A turbo. I mean come on! Make a red edition or something at least. It’s absurd, I would pick a genesis 2.0t over that car that’s how bad it is.[/quote] I wouldn’t get anything with a turbo in it period. We still don’t know how durable these new small displacement turbo fours are. They haven’t had enough time to show their true colors. Turbocharging is for diesels and racing..not fuel mileage. I prefer superchargers anyways B)[/quote]
The thing is the FRS was meant to be a performance car. It has no practical applications, no human being with legs can fit in those back seats. It’s purpose was to be more of a toy that could be daily driven if needed. That is why I was going over the horsepower numbers of the Z, Camero, and Stang’. They’re all priced about the same, and they all are in the same category, yet the little FRS is pushing about 150-200 horses less than its competitors.[quote=”Pithy Radish” post=127858][quote=”Chevyman21″ post=127857][quote=”Kevin_1500″ post=127855]The ridiculous part is it has a Subaru boxer engine WITHOUT A turbo. I mean come on! Make a red edition or something at least. It’s absurd, I would pick a genesis 2.0t over that car that’s how bad it is.[/quote] I wouldn’t get anything with a turbo in it period. We still don’t know how durable these new small displacement turbo fours are. They haven’t had enough time to show their true colors. Turbocharging is for diesels and racing..not fuel mileage. I prefer superchargers anyways B)[/quote]
The thing is the FRS was meant to be a performance car. It has no practical applications, no human being with legs can fit in those back seats. It’s purpose was to be more of a toy that could be daily driven if needed. That is why I was going over the horsepower numbers of the Z, Camero, and Stang’. They’re all priced about the same, and they all are in the same category, yet the little FRS is pushing about 150-200 horses less than its competitors.[/quote] There is no replacement for displacement. Horsepower is relative to torque and torque is made through displacement. Horsepower is torque over time as 33,000 lb-ft a minute equals 1 horsepower. You cannot have horsepower without torque. Torque is leverage and you need force/a lever to create it.EDIT: Refer to the quote I have in my sig. Torque is what gets you moving. Torque is work. The FRS has none.
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