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I’m with you all the way on this one, Eric. The torque Nazis aren’t wrong, but they are underestimating the value of your experienced hands. I have 5 torque wrenches myself, and they come out for installing bearing caps, heads, and setting up transmission/differential preloads. For everything else, I use the cheapest torque wrenches I have, which I’m using to type this post with now. I consider myself to be exceptionally aware of how I’m tightening fasteners and very good at tightening all the fasteners of a given component with equal clamping force, even if the fasteners are different lengths. Because I’ve developed that skill (including making mistakes), I completely understand and trust your ability to torque things properly by hand.
When experienced mechanics use torque wrenches for non-critical assembly tasks, it actually makes me a little bit dubious of their skill level. I used torque wrenches on all kinds of stuff when I was starting out and didn’t know much of anything, but I always paid careful attention to learn and understand the nature of how fasteners tighten. I’m super anal about how I fix cars, so I cant figure that these guys are still torqueing everything just because they’re anal. The other reason I can think of to be doing it is because they don’t know what ‘properly tightend’ is and admittedly would rather leave it up to a measuring device than trust their own skill.
It’s a case of knowing when to use a torque wrench and when torquing by feel is good enough. There would have a lot fewer persistent oil leaks on the old Slant Sixes if people had torqued the valve cover properly, instead of just ham-fisting the cover bolts, which caused the weebly valve cover to bell-mouth at the bolt holes and damage the gasket.
I completely agree. It is not practical to try and torque every fastener. I have had people correct me for not torquing 10 mm valve cover bolts to spec, lol. I got a good laugh out of that. obviously torquing head bolts or rocker arm bolts is important, but for the most part a lot of things can be done with impact to ‘close enough’ spec.
As a person who learnt work on machines by necessity(motorbikes, cars, generators,etc) due to not being rich enough to hire a repairman for every single maintainance stuff.
I would say that being a torque nazi is probably a phase, and reflects on the person on how experienced he has handling machines.
I still remember when I was just in my early teens, fixing stuff by the repair manual.
And the repair manuals had these torque numbers so I assumed that all those numbers were scripture, and diverting from them was sacrilege!
But after a while, I started to question the need to torque everything with a torque wrench, especially when dealing with low torques, 5-30lbs ft. (Kinda depends how buff the person is lol)
In the end, I think being a torque nazi is just a phase, and people who work on machines long enough usually stop being torque nazis because they just get used to it being just a guideline.
Nowadays i just go by finger tight, arm tight or wtf is this tightness!.
But when i need to equalise the torque across multiple bolt, then out comes the torque wrench.
My rules are torque lugnuts (Simply because breaking loose impacted ones on the side of the road is a pain in the butt) big rigs are an exception to this rule ain’t nobody got time to do extension math or torque 60 nuts especially at 475+ ftlbs This takes 45mins minnimum and thats knowing the math etc, anything under a cover gets torqued whenever possible. Gaskets that crush out, thin metal, gaskets with wires in them ($400 DT 466 Valve cover gasket), bearing bolts/nuts all get torqued. Plastic covers, small stuff, delicate components get the feel for bolt stretch treatment. Any metal to metal get the listen to impact treatment.
After you have done this as a tech for a while in all honesty you get a really good feel for bolt stretch. Doing it through gaskets, with helicoils, etc take a fair amount longer to learn but, in the end you learn. I have had torque nazis come behind me with a torque wrench to attempt to prove me wrong only to have it be within the average margin of error of a torque wrench. That is also a good way to test yourself to find if you got the feel down yet. Best is when they do this and the bolt strips out. I laugh so hard when that happens cause now they are fixing it not me.
Comes down to a simple rule when it doubt torque it out. Whether it be checking the torque after or using it instead it works either way.
I agree with the overall sentiment of the video; an experienced mechanic really doesn’t need a torque wrench for every fastener. If they do I can’t help but question both their level of experience and/or ability to produce. Of course I also have big doubts about people who NEVER use a torque wrench…
That said I am going to have a ‘torque nazi’ moment about your video. If you’ve had those Snap On torque wrench (and they are nice ones, I have a couple) where are the calibration tags?
Just as important as having a quality torque wrench and knowing when to use it is making sure it’s properly maintained and in calibration.As many know, bolt stretch is really the accurate method of tensile load from a fastener.
This is because all of the friction in threads makes torque readings very approximate.
Throw on top of thread friction, the uses of dry threads, new versus old threads, somewhat damaged threads, depth of thread engagement, disimilar metals such as stainless going into cast iron, use of oil on threads, use of anti-seize on threads, then the torque wrench begone to look like a tool not to bother with.
As the above mentioned,
Do people torque bolts and nuts dry?
I was always under the impression that the torque specs assumes an oiled thread (usually light oil)I see the axle nut torque written on the wheelbearing box and I ignore this step.Wheelbearing manufacturers say damage to the wheelbearing can be done tightening the axle nut with an impact which is a BS lie.It is 100% impossible to torque down the axle nut down.I tighten the axle nut down with an impact until the socket quits turning.Some people don’t know how to use a clicker type torque wrench right.Some like to jerk on it after hearing the clicking noise.This gives a false torque spec reading.I stop when it clicks.
Once you have been in this, you have a feel for what kind of torque is needed, and in most cases can go with that.
I’m sure that experienced techs can get by without using torque wrenchs for many things but Eric’s videos are widely relied on by folks that might be attempting their first repair. Even if he doesn’t use a torque wrench, it might increase the instructional value if he suggested the importance of proper torque on parts where a novice might tend to guess incorrectly and cause problems.
Using impact tools for assembly has been mentioned several times. I’m going to say that impact is for disassembly only. There’s no need for impact forces during assembly.
[quote=”wafrederick” post=158209]I see the axle nut torque written on the wheelbearing box and I ignore this step.Wheelbearing manufacturers say damage to the wheelbearing can be done tightening the axle nut with an impact which is a BS lie.It is 100% impossible to torque down the axle nut down.[/quote]
I totally agree. The last wheel bearing I put in said overtorqueing the axle nut WILL damage the wheel bearing, total BS. The axle nut clamps the 2 inner races of the wheel bearing together, and those inner races are in the top 5 strongest and most hardened/heat treated pieces of steel in the whole car. The axle nut will pull the threads off the axle before those inner races will ever give a damn about being squeezed. I’ve installed an axle nut at least a few hundred times, maybe a lot more, and NEVER had a problem come back. Let me clarify that I’m speaking of conventional sealed dual roller or dual ball bearing units, not separate tapered roller bearings that use the axle nut to preload (like on a stub axle).
Evil-I:
A agree with you there. Although I sometimes use a power tool for assembly, I default to hand tools because they allow me to assemble with the most precision. Of course any fasteners that came out hard, warranting the use of power tools, are cleaned up and lubed for assembly.grouchy-hermit:
I believe folks attempting their first repair and beginners should always have a printed service manual for their car on hand and to study before doing jobs. Even it it’s $100 (which it rarely is), it’s not a huge expense when you’re talking about paying for auto repairs. I totally get that that the mechanically inclined regularly pull off simple jobs with no service information at all, but working on cars without experience or information is not going to get results on the better side of things (even if the repair ‘works’).stilllearning:
You are correct that lubrication is an assumed component of torqueing to a spec, as are clean threads.I work next to a guy who is a exceptionally good tech in many ways, and I’m lucky to have him next to me to learn from. Torqueing things, with him, I just don’t get though. He’s my age and has similar experience to me, but uses torque wrenches pretty regular on things I don’t, including ALL lug nuts. What he doesn’t ever do though, is clean or lubricate threads. He’ll spin crusty lugs on or intake manifold bolts in that chirp like a bird call, and them tighten them with a torque wrench. I know that he knows that’s not the ‘right’ way, but he also knows that it still works, as do I. I waste the time to clean and lube threads on almost everything and hardly touch my torque wrenches, and that’s one example of getting different styles of mechanical work done by the same ‘grade’ of tech in the same shop.
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