Tools and Name Brand Snobbery

[Mike]

Tool snobbery. I know in a lot of cases, there is no substitute for quality. We all know about those guys with the trucks that pull up and magically make your wallets lighter and your bank accounts depleted the second you hear the truck come to a stop. They are in business for a reason. However, not ever person has access to those trucks or the finances to afford all the wonderful, wonderful toys that they sell.

A guy I know that’s not a professional mechanic by any means was helping a newer guy in his car club with a few repairs. Inside my friend’s garage you’ll find a WALL of tool boxes from HF, and inside are tools from Craftsman, Husky, Kobalt, Snap On, Mac, HF, Stanley, and some other off the wall brands that he picks up when he sees something that he likes. Can’t blame him, I think we all do that. I sure know that if you look in my box, you will find brands of all kinds.

While working on the car, they owner starts looking at my friends tools and makes the comment, “Boy, you sure buy a lot of crap tools!” which kind of made me freeze and surprised that someone would just be so blatantly rude, but to be honest it’s not the first time I’ve heard people say stuff like that to others. Personally I’ve loaned tools to people and had one person tell me that the tool I loaned them was a piece of $hit. “Were you able to get the job done?”
“Yeah, it took a bit longer, but it’s finally done.” Oddly enough, i’ve used this tool on more than one vehicle and never had any issues with it. I’ve used it SINCE loaning it and STILL have not had one issue with it. Was it really the tools fault? Obviously not.

Don’t get me wrong, i’m no master mechanic. My tools can go weeks without me even picking them up. But lets get one thing straight… my tools work just fine in my hands. It has nothing to do with the name etched on them, it’s because I know how to use them. Yes, different brands of tools are made differently… i do not dispute that. But saying my Craftsman wrench that i’ve had in my tool box for 30 years now is inferior to so-in-so brands wrench because of the NAME is really sad.

Tools are that… tools. They help get the job done. Without knowledge behind them, they just sit in the box, looking pretty, but ultimately doing nothing but taking up space. Expensive tools in the hands of someone who doesn’t know what they are doing are just as likely to fail as any other brand.

I’m not saying that all tools are created equal, lets get that straight. I know there are differences. But again, the last time I checked the name written on my underwear, it wasn’t Rockefeller. It’s not my sole purpose in life to put Steve Snap-on or Bill Mac’s kids through college (you know what i mean…) While in a perfect world, having top tier tools would be every mechanic’s wish… but that’s not reality.
I know someone with a $20k debt to a tool truck company because he REFUSES to buy anything else, not matter what. Every week, he gives the guy a little cash, but then charges something else… something as simple as a screw driver. If that name wasn’t printed on it, he doesn’t want it. No, I cannot touch his tools, because they are HIS. Yet, other mechanics I know are just as, if not MORE successful than he with tools of all varieties… not just expensive ones.

I know this is pretty long, but it’s something I thought had to be said. Don’t look down on guys who don’t have what you may consider to be the best of the best tools. At the end of the day, they are happy with what they purchased and are comfortable using them. Your experience with say a Harbor Freight purchase may dissuade you from doing business with them, but perhaps the guy next to you has had good success with his purchases. Maybe it’s all he can afford, and he’s proud of his tools. Just because they don’t say ‘Snap On’ on them doesn’t give you the right to disrespect a person because you feel their choice is a dumb one.

Buy the best YOUR money can buy. Buy what catches your eye.

Appreciate the fact that this guy takes pride in having the best set of tools HIS money can buy. Maybe he doesn’t have a $500.00 brand new Snap On impact gun… maybe he bought his second hand. The fact is again, unless the tool is putting someones life at risk, you should enjoy the time with your friends instead of making smart ass comments about trivial things, especially when it’s that friend who is using those “inferior” tools to fix your car…

If you have a problem with my tools, feel free to upgrade them at any time! Just remember this, expensive tools do not make your skills any better. Appreciate what you have and what others have as well.

Topic

[Lorrin Barth]

I have this pliers. I found it in the street many years ago. It was originally sold by Western Auto.

It fits my hand perfectly, the jaws grip just right and the slip joint never slips when I don’t want it to. I reach for this tool on a daily basis. I have lots of other pliers of various sorts but this tool is special.

I found out how special when it went missing. Well, I got it back, it had gotten mixed in with another man’s tool set where it lived for a few years. While it was gone I bought numerous pliers I thought would replace it. None did.

I’d part with this tool but the price would be high. Anyway, the brand doesn’t matter, the only thing that matters is how well the tool works and this stupid pliers works wonderfully in my hand.

[William]

There was a kid in my class that had a hard on for Snap-On. Ha. He’d constantly talk about how great Snap-On was compared to other tool brands. He’d knock on anything that wasn’t his precious high-end brand. At the time, I didn’t really care. Everyone has their preferences.

It wasn’t until just before I graduated I realized there are some things worth spending money on, and some things that are a waste of money. Toolbox, I bought a Craftsman. Sockets, Craftsman. Ratchets, Matco. I prefer Matco, if I could, I would have everything Matco, but I’m not above other brands, and I am definitely not above people just starting out with the cheap brands. They get the job done. They just might not get the job done as many times as the others will.

My last semester I’d constantly tell the new students not to go gung-ho on tools. There’s plenty of time when they’re making money to buy all the good stuff. Some listened, others didn’t.

[Rob megee]

If you can get the job done with the tools you have than great. I do feel there is a slight difference in tool designs. For example, at one time Snap-on was the only one with flank drive on their wrenches and sockets. Now it seems most other brands have some version of that feature. I have a mix of several brands including Craftsman. I am just as proud of my Craftsman tools as I am of Snap-on, Mac or Matco tools.

I don’t buy many Harbor Freight or similar tools. If you are careful, some of them are acceptable for one-off use. I noticed Eric uses Harbor Freight AC gauges. That is a good example of one of their tools that work fine for low volume use. I don’t think I would buy their line wrenches, I have seen too many that actually bend, spread and slip when used. jMHO

[Lorrin Barth]

We need to realize there’s two groups represented here. First there’s the people who do this for a living. To make a living these days they have to be fast. There’s no time to tinker with a tool or jury rig. They need the best tools within economic reason.

Then there’s the rest of us who have all weekend to complete some simple task. I’m retired and have more than one vehicle. What is time to me? I’m very happy to use a tool that a professional would immediately throw in the trash or use some lash up.

[Pat61]

It all depends on usage-
If used often, cheap isn’t the way to go. As time goes by one will develop a preference for certain items, and I guarantee they won’t all come from one source…

[Ronnie Hensley]

WELL SAID! WELL SAID!!!!
I’m like you…I HATE that kind of crap from a person who borrows YOUR tools and then tells you what a POS they are. Well Excuuse ME! I tell those kind of disrepectful ungrateful morons “Well…I guess they are BETTER than the ones you don’t have, now ain’t they?” Then I grab MY tool back and tell him to use his own from now on.
There is NO excuse for that kind of behavior, but as you know, there is always going to be somebody who will happily tell you what junk you have and what great tools they have. As I see it, if that’s the case…THEN USE YOUR OWN!!!!!
Whew! I feel much better! 👿

[Kevin Gallich]

I started out with a BenchTop set from Kmart years ago and still have most of that set left. An extension is an extension IMO. Now don’t get me wrong if you need a wobble extension then spend the money on Snap on. Now I remember years ago if you bought a Taiwan set of wrenches then you expect the SAE wrenches to be a little sloppy. Now a days my favorite wrench is a Gear Wrench and I believe them to be made in Taiwan. In my tool box you will find all brands and they all have a purpose. Now if I break a cheaper one and used it a lot I would spend the money and upgrade to a bigger name brand. And I agree to some extent a tool is only as good as the tool on the other end. But sometimes a special tool makes the job quicker.

My thoughts on me buying Snap on. If I charge $5k a year on tools to my Sears charge card by the time I pay it off it would be very close to what I spend on my Snap on tools. And it is nice that they drive right up to my front door. I have very little time to go out to the store and shop so I am ok paying a little more for that service. Please don’t anybody tell me different as this works in my head. Ha.

[Christopher Sipes]

A lot of it depends simply on what you are doing and what you are comfortable with. For me, I’m a Shipfitter, I do steel construction/ fabrication on ships. When I am at work there is no substitution for a $100 Starrett Combination Square, but if I am just cutting wood for a deck at home the $5.00 Johnson from Home Depot is just fine.

I also turn wrenches quite often in my profession and have never really had a problem with wrenches, sockets or ratchets from any particular reputable brands. If you use common sense and understand a tools limitations then you probably won’t have too many problems. Don’t blame a (insert any tool brand) combination wrench for breaking after beating it with a maul when you really need a slugging wrench the entire time anyway.

There is also a lot of clever marketing in the world of tool sales as well. Snap On, Mac, Matco, S&K, etc. want you purchase their $120 ratchet and $600 socket set. All of them are in the business of actually “selling” tools. They don’t want you thinking that you could get the same job done with a $25 ratchet or $120 socket set from the brick and mortar store. Why do you think they offer such good discounts to students? Get a 20 year old that credit line going with box full of that barnds tools then they typically have a customer for life. Not to mention another person to spread their gospel about how you’ll only accomplish breaking sockets and wrenches with any other brand in your box.

[david]

im a DIY-er.
And im usually on a budget.
Only on a few occassions, was time truly of the essence. (notice, i did not say quality of tool)
So, i mainly buy the most economical – i can face the music – CHEAPEST tools i can for planned projects.
Very seldom, have i found a real need for anything better.

I have only 1 broken socket ever in my time of doing necessary fixes. Was a found 12mm chrome socket off the street and it split while undoing a distributor bolt on a 280zx.
(had some broken multi head screwdrivers in those really thin plastic housing, but those were like
2 for $1 in some discount bin and i had left in car unused for like 3 years – this kinda don’t really count)

i still have my Benchtop kit from Kmart from mid 2000’s.
I still have a no name socket set from Kmart – SAE set from back in mid 90’s
my favorite screwdriver? a Duralast 16 incher purchased back in early 2000’s that i’ve pried and pried (rear heater hose in ’93 Legend) and leveraged on many cars since and never snapped and still straight as an arrow (not that i’ve needed straight).

The only time i do buy a name brand is probably because i had to have it then and there and there was nothing else to pick from. Oh wait, there is ALWAYS something generic to pick from.

Have i stripped my $5 10mm ratcheting spanner (great neck)? not yet. Have i stripped a bolt/nut with it? Not yet.

i dunno where all these broken tools come from, maybe i’ve just lucked out since i’ve lived more or less in the south my whole life and so don’t have so much rust to contend with.
I can see the advantage of thinner profile ratchets and spanners and anything “nice” for tight spots.
(but just disassemble more)
I can see the advantage of nicer grade of metal/steel when you have to fasten/unfasten rusted together fasteners.
(but just have standby replacement fastener ready)

Have i been in a position to have absolutely needed that 1 or 2 mm more clearance to make a difference whether i can fix or not fix something?
NOT that i recall. There was one occassion, on a bolt holding alternator in an isuzu rodeo, where i think i could have removed the bolt if i had slightly smaller profile ratchet, but i ended up bending the battery plate out of the way to get clearance and just bent it back when finished. But even like 2 mm may or may not have been enough. (never will know as i did not have tools to compare).

As for wanting nice brand name … well, don’t we all?
But is the brand name worth that much – especially to a DIY-er? probably not.
And can the DIY-er afford the name brand tool?
c’mon, you obviously aren’t “affording” to pay for the work done. If you could pay that price, you most likely would (only reason is for self-learning but if your time really worth THAT much, then you probably could not really afford to do the work yourself anyhow … im sure this could be whole ‘nother thread)
Well, anyhow, the goals are different from person-to-person.

I would even go so far as to say, i would super admire a pro that’s using Craftsman and not Matco or SnapOn and does the job and hope that i also got a slight savings as a customer cuz he doesn’t have to have the name brand tool to get a job done.

And heck, if somebody thinks their tool kit is hot sh!t, there is someone out there that prolly owns a whole automated manufacturing line. Why fix if you can make new?
TAKE THAT! YOU TOOL SNOB~! :sick:

And if anyone would like to loan my tools AND comment about what crappy brand they are, i would encourage them to borrow somewhere else.
I would argue that TIME is the biggest all encompassing tool, and that brand is what you want it to be.

Anyhow, hoping that putting my 2 cents in here doesn’t mean all my tools start breaking in the coming months~~~!

PS- just thought about this while closing my reply, i believe that i would be more prone to buying better brand name for the smaller tools (physical dimension) than the big tools. Or tools that in their use requires more refinement in use/more specialized. 2 foot breaker bar? Pittsburg by Harbor Freight. 1/4 inch ratchet, at least something made in Taiwan! (some of the older pittsburg tools were made in Taiwan)
banana:

[Jamie]

I never understood tool snobbery. There is a point where you need good tools in your hands but it no way means you need to have the best and that all else is crap. I don’t think I own a single Snap-On tool currently outside of some old screw drivers. Like most guys I own a giant miss matched collection of brands. And a fair amount of them are weird or unique tools specific to VW designs. Snap on makes some nice stuff but I don’t think its the best. And to be blatantly honest I’m Canadian. I don’t really care for the “Made in the USA” pride since I’m not American.

I have some tools by Hazet out of Germany that feel pretty dam good and work really well. I’d easily put a set of my Hazet ratchet wrenches up against Snap on ones. I think if my current ratchets give out on me Ill replace them with Hazet ones too. In fact any of my tools that get a bit long in the tooth Id consider replacing with Hazet. A few of the specific tools I own are already made by them and are holding up great.

I think an acceptable tool box snobbery, or pride should be about having the right tools for the job, not the most expensive.

My final words….why would you let someone go through your tool box. Last time someone tried to help them selves to mine had a dead blow hammer thrown in their direction.

[Dan]

Mixed-bag of “results” from Harbor Freight. First of all, you gotta love the permanent 20% coupon.

I bought a very inexpensive Pittsburgh brand (nonprofessional) rachet and socket set that is basically useless. One of the clips on the case broke immediately. All of the sockets fit loosely. It didn’t come with an 8mm socket that fits the 1/4 ratchet. And so on. On the other hand, the Cen-Tech OBD II scan tool and DMM from Harbor Freight have worked out very well.

[Bob]

Not in the business, but in High School worked as a “porter” in a dealership – the kid you send out chasing parts and sweeps the shop at the end of the day.

I got the idea that the tool trucks weren’t so much making money from selling tools as they were selling credit. Some of the younger guys were paying off huge debts on more tools than they needed for the job they were doing.

[John]

I am a DIYer who might do a bit of work once or twice a month. For me, professional tool purchase would make it cheaper to take it to a garage. I therefore use brands such as Silverline, Draper or Sealey (in the UK). They are cheap but not nasty and get the job done fine for me.

I also paid £35 for an unbranded ratchet set which had 1/4″ and 1/2″ ratchets, accessories and sockets from 4 – 32mm, deep versions of common sizes, spark plug sockets, and lots of screw driver bits. I don’t need to buy anything else because of this set, it isn’t the best quality, they’re not mirror finish shiny, or have a fancy name on, but the set does the jobs I need it for.

[James O’Hara]

I am a diesel mechanic I own just about every brand out there. My theory is get the tool that works will last and does its main job well. Snobbery is for people who are too lazy to put in the proper time to do research and warranty their tools when they break. Snap-On, Mac, Matco, Cornwell all it is, is a name. Over 3/4 of their tools are made by someone else and then branded with their name. Sometimes they do make requirements more stringent so you get a better quality tool and I do mean sometimes aka 15-20% of the time. So a large majority of the time you are buying another brands tool with just their name and paying that premium. Gear Wrench makes all the major tool brands ratcheting mechanisms for ratcheting box end wrenches. Kline makes the diagonal cutters for Snap-On. So on and so forth. If you are smart you can look at stamping indentations and also tool numbers and buy the original manufacturers tool and save normally 30-40% of the price. This is precisely what I do. I own very few tool truck brand tools and the ones I do own are normally for good reason aka they are made with those more stringent requirements and/or they break all the time regardless of the manufacturer. The other thing is most tool trucks will warranty the original manufacturers stuff if that is the manufacturer that makes that tool for them. A perfect example is gearwrench. The other thing is most manufacturers make their brand better then the tool truck brand unless requirements are higher or they must compete with other lower priced items. The brands and the tool truck salesman are just middle men.

I have HF, craftsman, expert, gp, channellock, snap-on, matco, mac, klien, wilde, otc, atd, knipex, etc, etc. Buy the best you can afford for the price and look at how its made, how it feels, How the tool will be used and what brand pros use and why. Look at the stamped markings and compare to the big boys and buy the original manufacturers version and you will save 10s of thousands of dollars. People always comment i have so many tools but, they have never heard of some of the brands and that is because people are too lazy to do research. I have 10k into my tool atm and I have almost everything I need I am just starting to get to the big ticket items 3/4in air impact, impacting air ratchets, ratcheting flex, stubby wrenches, 3/4in impact socket sets and accessories, tap and die sets, and yet i have spent far far less and have tools that constantly get borrowed. If you are going to buy a tool take the time and do the research 1-2 hrs of your time will save you 40-50 bucks on average.

[Author]

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