- This topic has 52 replies, 15 voices, and was last updated 9 years ago by
.
-
Topic
-
This video has a longer title: Craftsman vs Craftsman Professional vs Harbor Freight vs Matco vs Mac vs Snap-on
It’s too long for the forum so I’m including it here.
So these are my opinions on these tools that I’ve used for years. Please keep in mind that these are my opinions. Also, be sure to consider use. The DIYer won’t use their tools in the same way a professional would and therefore the ROI is different for both parties.
-
Replies
-
You know, I suppose one could accept the fact that one time, Craftsman tools were good. That time is gone. Been decades since they made much worth buying. I hit Harbor Freight tools for certain things – maybe something I am going to use once and throw away or use once a decade. What I have in my box is what I have an use, nobody sees it but me. However, the bigger shop environments are not so friendly or forgiving. I have a SK tools from the Eisenshower administration… broken, not that I remember — I even read somewhere they might have been made at the same factory as Snap-on back then, however as good as they might be, they have no shop credibility. I know OLD independant mechanics with old junk tools that can fix anything, however they would be insulted endlessly for not having truck tools if they were in dealerships. Its a herd mentality especially for young techs. Years and years ago, I worked for a guy who had a huge cabinet full of Snap-on stuff, and he snickered at my SK stuff, however the Craftsman that I brought in to use at the time he actually threw in the trash and said to use his Snap-on tools only customers cars. (I don’t care what the brand is, if its not a polished finished wrench, I will not only not use it, to this day, I will scrap it). Pittsburg beats on sears on this one, totally. When it was all said and done, he probably did me a huge favor and saved me a lot of busted knuckles and damaged fasteners. It was at the time that I realized that using junk tools in a professional setting just doesn’t work, at all. Its like going into a gunfight with with a plastic water pistol. Now if somebody else can get away with this, more credit to them, however I remember working one of my own cars, it was a Duster with a 440 engine, and I didn’t have a good quality socket adaptor (something like a Wards brand maybe) at that time, and I believe I was loosening an idler arm bolt with a breaker bar or something in the front of the car, and that adaptor sheared like it was made of wax. This type of thing is TOTALLY unacceptable at a shop for many reasons, but its things like that make people only buy from truck tools.
I would, in a bind use OLD craftsman tools on something while wearing leather gloves, regrettably, however the new stuff they sell from China would just ruin stuff besides my hands. My exception to using Sears tools that rule is those sand finished ratchets from Sears… worst tool in existance, simply garbage. Even Walmart ratchets are better than those, but I don’t own any. Cheap air impact tools from Harbor Freight i wouldn’t even allow near my shop, my pets, my home, maybe even on my property., and the reason is because they cheap air tools fail. And when air tools fail, its potentially like having a grenade go off in the shop. Would I want to see any techs hand blown off or have his face and body filled with shrapnel, or have the internal guts of a chinese air gun go flying into a customers vehicle.. Not a chance. No pro I know would even consider that risk.I actually watched a Harbor Freight soldering iron cook itself internally one time when trying to use it 110 shorted out starts fires in microseconds— lucky for me, it was outside, but I could have lost the whole shop, maybe the entire block, homes, businesses, potentially burned down because of cheap tools like that. I can assure anybody that even a minor repair on a car due to a small shop mishap costs WAY than just buying the good stuff beforehand and hand or facial reconstructive surgery is more expensive than any snap-on tool out there. And my last piece is this. There are certain places I know of that only a snap-on tool will fit. The center support underneath the valve body in Turbo400 tranny is a 12 point bolt, and there is almost no room between it and the machined aluminum around it. Only a snap-on thin wall socket will fit in there, nothing else I know of. There are many other things like this when doing the daily thing.[quote=”MDK22″ post=124669]A name is exactly that a name. I look at the quality of the tool I could care less about the name. It is stupid to play favorites. I have Craftsman tools that were used in a steel mill for 35yrs that still work and work well. It all depends on the quality. A name does not dictate quality. I have returned for my money back Snap-On and Mac Tools. People are going to say what they will say and do what they will do but, I look at stuff subjectively not objectively and in every instance I have seen the huge Pros and Cons to tool truck tools.
Buyng stuff only USA made I respect too but, it is a fight that has already been lost. I wish it wasn’t that way but, it is.[/quote]
I wouldn’t say the fight is lost, we can still bring manufacturing back…with some major policy changes…but I won’t get into that here.
I stretched the jaws and rounded bolts using Snap-On’s Flank Drive + Combo wrenches none ratcheting with 10mm, 13mm, 14mm, and 1/2″ The bolts are 10.9 hardness. I then got a replacement set thinking it might have been a forging problem both me and the dealer. Replacement set does the same thing. I am doing this with no cheater all by hand and body strength. The sets I had bought cost 700 dollars. My craftsman cost 70. The craftsman I expect the jaws to spread on. The others I did not and the first time it happened I punched the frame rail for a big rig when it rounded off. (They don’t really move at all when you do that believe me) My coworkers same Snap-On same style 2 yrs older then mine don’t do that at all not even slightly. You want to explain to me and my knuckles why I should spend that much money. Oh I forgot to mention when i did put that much force on the wrenches my hands hurt for 3 days afterwards. When I use my craftsman the same amount of force it only hurts for 1 day afterwards. Yes, it is a lot of force i was putting on them I do not care for 700 dollars they should take ever little bit of it. I have also had co workers break their snap-on ratchets and i hand them my expert and it doesn’t break taking the same stuff off. A name is a name.
[quote=”MDK22″ post=124709]I stretched the jaws and rounded bolts using Snap-On’s Flank Drive + Combo wrenches none ratcheting with 10mm, 13mm, 14mm, and 1/2″ The bolts are 10.9 hardness. I then got a replacement set thinking it might have been a forging problem both me and the dealer. Replacement set does the same thing. I am doing this with no cheater all by hand and body strength. The sets I had bought cost 700 dollars. My craftsman cost 70. The craftsman I expect the jaws to spread on. The others I did not and the first time it happened I punched the frame rail for a big rig when it rounded off. (They don’t really move at all when you do that believe me) My coworkers same Snap-On same style 2 yrs older then mine don’t do that at all not even slightly. You want to explain to me and my knuckles why I should spend that much money. Oh I forgot to mention when i did put that much force on the wrenches my hands hurt for 3 days afterwards. When I use my craftsman the same amount of force it only hurts for 1 day afterwards. Yes, it is a lot of force i was putting on them I do not care for 700 dollars they should take ever little bit of it. I have also had co workers break their snap-on ratchets and i hand them my expert and it doesn’t break taking the same stuff off. A name is a name.[/quote] I agree, it a total case by case basis sort of thing. We can’t judge a tool simply because of the brand just like a car can’t be judged based on it’s brand. As a GM guy, I can admit that the Chevette and the Vega were crap yet the Corvette and the Chevelle are/were great. Goes for anything in life really.
As a DIY er I am looking at a new set of wrenches but right now I am looking at more the craftsman professional line rather then any of the big 3. For me it is easier to walk into sears and trade in a tool if I have an issue. At the same time I would like to buy something that I can give to my kids when they get older. I am 50%/50% between snap on and craftsman. Now the craftsman pros will cost me 89.99 vs 169 of a set of blue points.
I know this is a choice all DIY guys have to make!
I would say go gear wrench non ratcheting. They are a little fatter then most makes it so you don’t hurt your hand as much and they are normally around 100 bucks. They are sold just about everywhere and are great for a DIY guy plus they are made the same as Matco I actually compared the broaching etc. They will work well for you and won’t break the bank at the same time. They are also a brand that is sold on most if not all tool trucks.
Snap-on flank drive plus is the only way to go. It will break the head off the bolt before it will round it. There is not another wrench I know in the same league. Combos with just the flank drive with no teeth (non plus) in the open-end are nothing special. If Snap-on is out the question definatley get something like a Cornwell, Williams, Carlyle (napa) or something with at least some known quality. Mac and Matco are the same junky Dahaner and Stanley stuff similar to Walmart stuff but more expensive. Complete and utter waste of money there.. I would avoid things from discount stores. I have a Craftsman ratchet that I believe is a Danaher and its worse than Harbor Freight stuff, honestly.The metalurgy on box store stuff is just poor. Cornwells, like Snap-ons are all hand made in the US. Box store stuff is brought in from the boatload and batch to batch differences would be impossible to determine. Craftsmen wrenches I would avoid entirely. I would rather use Pittsburg honestly.
Just a question on the flank drive plus. Do you use them as an everyday wrench or just for breaking off rusts stuff? I don’t mind paying if I can just use them all the time. I have seen other people say that they mark up bolts a lot. I have a basic set of craftsman hand tools and lets just say I round everything off lately! My second pick right now is NAPA because I have a store one town over. Cornwell also seems really good to me.
Flank Drive Plus and WrightGrip bite into the bolt and leaves marks. See this video here:
Original Flank Drive does not have the teeth and is still available. Snap-On does make good wrenches but, their quality is not like it used to be. Whether they changed the steel alloy or what; the newer stuff seems to spread easier then the old. Though I am normally putting force on them that most car mechanics do not. They are still in the top end of the spectrum for wrenches though.
If you want a comparison between wrenches check this out:
Snap-Ons Industrial brand is J.H. Williams and they own Wright tool company. So basically Snap-On is to J.H. Williams as Wright is to Blue-point. Though J.H. Williams and Wright are both made in the USA. Either way they make the bolt head deforms slightly where the teeth bite in; which can make it a pain to get the wrench back off and also make it hard to get the wrench back on especially in a tight spot. It is extremely rare that my gear wrench open ends on my ratcheting wrenches spread and round bolts. It does happen just like it will happen with all wrenches it is just a matter of when or if the bolt will break before hand. I find it hard for someone that is a DIY guy to spend 1k-1.5k on a set of wrenches. Gearwrench is a definite upgrade from Craftsman and not the best of the best but, still affordable. If you want best of the best you are looking at $500 minimum.
P.S. watch out for fanboyism
The best Wrench to buy if Snap-on is out are Cornwell. They have good forgings, and no teeth on the open end. The flank drive plus would be inappropriate for some applications as it can mar the bolt. Its for gripping. For other stuff I would just use regular flank drive wrenches, or Cornwell or something. Anything but Craftsman. Talked to one of my wrenching buddies yesterday, and he has been using the same SK ratchet since the 70s, and it finally got lost, or left in a car or something. Anyway, somebody go him a Craftsman professional ratchet to replace it for Christmas, and it already broke. I am not sure about the new SK stuff, but the older SK wrenches, and I have a set, were very nice. I cannot speak for their modern stuff. Anything but Craftsman.
I am going snap on based on feedback. Plus the money I have saved in doing basic brake jobs and suspension work more then covers the cost of tools that I will have forever. My only problem is the only place I can purchased them is ebay because no tool truck is pulling into my driveway! Anyone have a good online snap on resource? Thanks for all the help.
I believe tool appreciation comes from how one was brought up. As a youngin I learned early that if it didn’t say Craftsman , not crapsman, it stayed on the shelf. I also learned that there was no parts store like autozone, but I am sure that will make a discussion here soon if it hasn’t already. Anyways, preference in tools in grandfathered we are young, we just don’t know it.
i don’t understand what the big deal is with buying affordable tools. Stuff like Craftsman and Harbor Freight aren’t bad tools. Now I cannot speak for much because I myself am still starting out. I only have maybe a year and half of work experience. The way I look at it is, if you are a very experienced technician, then yes it is reasonable to say that you will own and buy expensive tools such as Snap-On, Matco, Cornwell and so on so forth. But If you are just starting out then I feel it is best to save as much money as you can and buy more affordable tools just to get the job done. Yes I know cheaper tools means cheaper quality. But at the end of the day, hand tools are all life time warranty so what is there to really complain about when you can always take yourself to the place where you purchased the tools to get a replacement. I will say yes that there are certain tools that you should invest in the higher end tools. Eric is right when he says a lot of technicians out there are so opinionated and have such a strong ego. I own a lot of Craftsman stuff because I had to get rid of all my Snap-On tools when I was back in California working for Nissan as an express tech. I thought I was going to be using my tools but I was wrong. So here I was, paying for tools that are not even making me money. Till this day I am still paying them off. I didn’t have the money to send my tools out back to my home state. It was not till recently that I got a job with Infiniti and I had to buy tools once again but only this time being Craftsman stuff since now that I am back home I was able to ask for my father to lend me a hand and help me finance tools. Now I am in debt paying back tools that don’t even exist to me and another set of tools that I actually use now.
[quote=”MDK22″ post=126307]Flank Drive Plus and WrightGrip bite into the bolt and leaves marks. See this video here:
Original Flank Drive does not have the teeth and is still available. Snap-On does make good wrenches but, their quality is not like it used to be. Whether they changed the steel alloy or what; the newer stuff seems to spread easier then the old. Though I am normally putting force on them that most car mechanics do not. They are still in the top end of the spectrum for wrenches though.
If you want a comparison between wrenches check this out:
Snap-Ons Industrial brand is J.H. Williams and they own Wright tool company. So basically Snap-On is to J.H. Williams as Wright is to Blue-point. Though J.H. Williams and Wright are both made in the USA. Either way they make the bolt head deforms slightly where the teeth bite in; which can make it a pain to get the wrench back off and also make it hard to get the wrench back on especially in a tight spot. It is extremely rare that my gear wrench open ends on my ratcheting wrenches spread and round bolts. It does happen just like it will happen with all wrenches it is just a matter of when or if the bolt will break before hand. I find it hard for someone that is a DIY guy to spend 1k-1.5k on a set of wrenches. Gearwrench is a definite upgrade from Craftsman and not the best of the best but, still affordable. If you want best of the best you are looking at $500 minimum.
P.S. watch out for fanboyism[/quote]
Hey, just wanted to ask where you got the information that Wright was owned by Snap on/Williams?
Not to be a jerk, but someone has misinformed you. Wright is a privately held company and is employee owned. Call or email them if you don’t believe me… 🙂
-Karl
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.