- This topic has 21 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 5 months ago by
.
-
Topic
-
Learn from my “mistakes.” This is not a home-gamer job unless you are a glutton for punishment.
The wife and I recently bought an 04 Escape with the 3.0L Duratec (100k miles) from a neighbor. The price was right, and we needed a car. The body and interior are fantastic. The suspension and underbody are in great shape albeit with a good deal of surface rust. (We live near Cincinnati, OH, and it’s an 04. Go figure).
There was a slow oil leak from around the timing cover/crank seal/oil pan area. It was not dripping on the ground, but the engine was pretty wet on the outside. So, in my infinitesimal wisdom, I thought…
“Hey, I could tear this apart, replace all the gaskets, and do the timing chain. This engine will be good for another 150k!”
Sounds great, right?
Hah.
The timing cover on these engines is sandwiched between the valve covers and oil pan. All need removed. Then, every single accessory must be removed from the front of the engine – including the alternator buried deep under/behind the engine by the firewall. Essentially, everything but the heads comes off or out.
Ok, not the end of the world, but it is a lot of work. The alternator is a pain unless you can really get under the car with a lift (jackstands es no bueno). The now-12-year-old-and-very-rusted Y-pipe on the exhaust had to come off because it snakes under the oil pan… Because Ford.
Finally, all was loosened and being removed, and surprise!!!
Sludge – like the kind nightmares are made of. It was at this point, I remembered my neighbor mentioning it had sat for “a bit.” I’m assuming they did not change the oil before or after this “break” in use. There is also a Motorcraft oil filter on it . Might this be the original? I cringe at the thought.
Long story… well… long, I am still cleaning sludge off of covers and the oil pan. There is a ton. Thank God for acetone. Also, the cam lobes are demonstrating this very peculiar pitting. I have never seen this before?
Pray for me, cross your fingers, think happy thoughts. Do what you do to help me get this thing back together.
Pictures attached for your viewing “pleasure?”
-
Replies
-
Just like you said, I would pray. Put Motorcraft Oil and a Motorcraft Filter on it. Hope for the best.
All is back together. No oil leaks yet! Unfortunately, it’s not idling. Seems to be missing at low RPMs and eventually dying. If the AC compressor is on, the engine basically does not idle at all. It has not thrown a light yet. Neighbor brought over his SnapOn Solus? and we found the crank sensor is not reading. Part is on order, then we will try again. Any input is appreciated! IAC tests well as does the TPS. No vacuum leaks that I can find.
My apologies for the “long time – no see.”
Here’s where we are at. I replaced the Crank Sensor with a Motorcraft OEM part. No luck. Then, I brought it to my mechanic who hooked up his smoke machine and did not find any vacuum leaks. When he ran his scan tool, he saw the same thing I had been seeing. The engine runs with acceptable fuel trims, but the crank sensor goes in and out of timing. It’s like the engine is searching for proper timing and can’t find it. He believes the timing chain that this 200 lb gorilla put on there in the garage is off by a tooth. He won’t touch it because of how long the job takes; It’s not cost effective.
King’s Ford here in Mason, OH can’t get me in until next week. My wife has revoked my “home-gamer mechanic” abilities (and I don’t have the time). I just need the thing sorted out so we can drive it. Heck, I’d spend the day with a mechanic as extra hands and pay him full price to get it done.
Any other suggestions?
Timing chain replacement
Bad to no idle
The term Pandora’s Box comes to mind.Did a similar job(timing belt)
Slipped one tooth on one cam when reinstalling the tensioner.
Ended with the same results.
Thankfully, it came apart reinstalled the belt and back together with out issue.I’ll email the Pope and have him say a prayer for you.
And this is why, when changing a timing chain or belt, you should rotate the crank by hand and see if the timing marks still line up. Don’t button things up until you are guaranteed that things are 100% spot-on.
But we did. I had a friend with experience with timing chains/belts over. We double checked everything at every step. When I told him the mechanic thought it was off, he didn’t believe it. Also interesting, the Escape had a rough idle with misses and varying RPMs before as well. It didn’t full out stall like it does now, but it had very similar symptoms.
And this is why, when changing a timing chain or belt, you should rotate the crank by hand and see if the timing marks still line up. Don’t button things up until you are guaranteed that things are 100% spot-on.
Not completely true:
Consider that some engines ( by venture of their manufacturers ) thought it a brilliant idea to leave the timing mark off the block for the crank shaft.Anyone can only take a close guess at the actual TDC location.
Even after turning the motor the crank could easily be off half to a full tooth and most would never notice.Only after using a piston stop an calculating the exact TDC and physically marking the block, then using the tooth count method to install the belt did it work.
There are exceptions to the rule.Exactly. That’s how 98% of timing chains and belts are done. The 3.0L duratec has no TDC mark. The procedure is laid out in this link. With this procedure, you don’t actually need a true TDC mark or calculation – as long as the chain doesn’t slip or move. It took me 4-5 times reading through before I understood exactly, but it makes sense. http://www.aa1car.com/library/mazda_ford_timing_chain_replace.htm
Here’s where I’m at.
King’s Ford took a “diagnosis” look at it. (keep in mind I drove it 14 miles from my mechanic to them – that’s it). They claim it has a code for clogged catalytic converters (there was no code 14 miles ago? and no CEL during the drive?). Their technician – by only listening to the engine and checking the non-existent codes – decided it must have a bent valve and the timing was off. They won’t do anything besides drop a used new-to-me engine in it and do the exhaust…. for $5500.
Heck no.
So, I’m gonna pick up my still DRIVING vehicle with absolutely no error codes. I have no clue where to go at this point. My mechanic doesn’t have the shop time for a job this big, and I work full time. There’s no home-gamer on this one.
Any and all suggestions welcome. Paid 3.5k for the car and it’s got 98k miles with a good body and interior. It just needs to work again.
Might suggest you mechanically check and confirm TDC and confirm both intake and exhaust are closed.
This can be done by one of two methods.
1 Leak down test
2 remove the valve covers
Doing a leak down test on all cylinders will also tell if there is any issue(s) with the valves, valve seats and rings.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.