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I own Dacia Sandero I 1.4 MPI. It is a Romanian car based on the French Reno Clio II (engine, transmission, suspension system, steering system, braking system, ECU, electrics, and so on are all 100% Reno; everything else is Dacia).
The car is 5 years old and has gone through only 27.000 km. The service interval for timing belt replacement is 120.000 km or 5 years for this Reno engine (but in Serbia, all service intervals are halved, so it is 60.000 km or 5 years).
That replacement (including parts and work) will cost about 415 dollars. That is a whole average monthly salary in my country.
Car has been driven approximately 65-70% in town, rest on regional roads or highway (120 km/h speed limit). The car has been kept on the parking on the street (not in the garage). In Serbia we have all 4 weather seasons.
[b]I really don’t want to change the belt unless I really need to. So, my question is (for experienced mechanics and technicians), what is the general lifespan of the timing belt, and does it depend more of the km/miles driven or the age of the belt?
Also, if there are no oil stains, cracks, etc, on the belt, does it mean that (in my case) I could use it for a few years more? And for how many years/km approximately?[/b]I would need answer ASAP, since the car will go to the service on Monday.
Before the potential belt change, I will ask mechanic to visually inspect the belt (for potential oil stains, cracks, and so on).P.S. Regardless of my nickname, I am not a mechanic. I am an electronics engineer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dacia_Sandero
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_K-Type_engine (Mine is K7J 720, I beleve. 75 hp, 112 Nm)
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In your case you have time not mileage. Have the mechanic do
the visual inspection and go from there. If condition is good
let it ride. If questionable replace.you can’t judge the the condition of the timing belt just by visual inspection. Even a good looking belt can break.
The key components are the bearings in the pulleys and the water pump. If they wear out – the belt wears out.
I did a timing belt job on my friends clio II 8V last month and it costed in total 200$ (parts + labor)Go look at my WRX timing belt post in repair central. I bought a kit containing the usual timing job parts but the belt included in the kit didn’t fit. On the other hand, the original belt looked great. So, I reused it.
However, at the bottom of my post notice the pile of parts that didn’t look so great and were replaced. The failure of any of these items could have left me by the side of the road and the failure of some would trash the engine.
My point is that there is more to a timing belt job than the belt itself. This is a chance to determine the condition of all the moving parts on the front of the engine. Plus I don’t feel one can do a serious assessment of the condition of the belt when it is still mounted on the car.
The factory recommendation is made with the idea that if you follow it you will never suffer a timing belt failure (Subaru is a little too liberal in their recommendation). So, if you don’t have the money then there is no choice but understand that you are accepting a risk.
I know that manufacturer recommends to change the belt evry 5 yeras. I also know that manufacturer intentionally used timing belt instead of the chain in their engine in order for me to need to pay them money every 5 years, instead of not ever having to worry about the timing chain.
This engine has a problem with the water pump (not just mine, all of them). The water pump bearing gasket (O ring) is bad quality. So after about 60.000 km it wears out and the water gets in into the bearing, flushes the lubricant out, bearing corrodes and causes belt to break. That is why with every change of timing belt, water pump is also changed (and pulleys of course). That is why it all costs 415 dollars.
Maybe I can get a Valeo pump, which is cheaper than Reno one, and last about the same.My car only has 27.000 km in it. So water pump should be fine.
There is also problem with this engine (all 1.4 engines in Dacia) with the oil pump gear. Romanians used their own domestically produced gear that they installed instead of Reno one. That gear is, allegedly, the cause of oil leaks on some of the 1.4 MPI engines inside of the timing belt case. On my engine, it doesn’t seem to be the case, but that is why I have mentioned potential oil stains on the belt. If there are any, I will of course change the belt.
But, I still need answers to the question of the belt lifespan. My car have not been driven every day, only like 3 times per week, or less. So there where not that many thermal stress cycles. I assume that when they say 5 years, they mean that car is driven 6 days a week?
That is why I wanted the answer from the experienced professionals, who have seen many of the cases concerning timing belts. So they can tell me whether they have seen many belts braking before they should or much much later. And have they seen many belts braking because of the rubber itself perishing during the course of time and not wear.
Howdy neighbor. Neighbor as in Ukrainian to Serbian.
You made me real curious. Why is that maintenance time is cut in a half in Serbia? The only time I can see it justified is if you were always driving in a Sahara desert. Lots of sand and dust and heat. I have no doubt you do not drive on autobahn in Serbia, but under normal use, even on crappy roads – why?
Btw, water pump is done not because it leaks, but because when you do timing belt, you already did all labor to get to the pump. If if it does not leak, it is simply smart to replace pump, bearing and tensioner same time.
I say – do that timing belt at about 100 000km. Start saving money for that. Buy parts NOW as they will only get more expensive later.Hi.
Service intervals in Serbia are halved because we used to have bad quality fuel. Dirty fuel (high sulfur content, and so on) causes oil to contaminate faster, additives in oil perish faster and so on. But the quality of fuel is now fine (although not as good as in EU countries, but close).
In case of this engine, the water pump is the problem (factory fault). That O ring on the pump bearing is inadequate quality, so pump does not last as much as it should. On diesel engines used in Dacia, for example, water pump lasts twice as much.
To reach 100.000 km, I would need 10 more years. I didn’t mean to postpone the belt change that much, only for a couple of years or so.
Well as for your theory on why times are halved the timing belt should never be in contact with oils etc so the theory would not apply. The belt should be always dry if there is oil on it or in the area around it which should also be dry, you should probably replace it and try to find/fix that leak.
Here is a link to the parts, I’m sure you can find them on your own as well.
http://www.mister-auto.co.uk/en/timing-belt-kit-with-water-pump/dacia-sandero-1-4-75hp_v27576_g3096.htmlIf it becomes necessary to do it I encourage you to try to do it yourself. Never having done one I did on my small 4cyl truck and it was a great experience and also saved me over $1000 US when it came time to replace a blown head because of the confidence to do it myself I gained from that and another big job on a different truck. You can find info online from manuals and here on how to do it.
If you can trust that your mechanic whatever they charge is doing the job right then you have it better than most as usually we have to trust, hope and pay until we find out if the advice and work is good.Timing belts work fine for long stretches of miles or time (mine was 30 years old) all the time and timing chains do need to be changed because they stretch and brake as well as jump teeth. With the belt the auto tensioner takes up the stretch as it happens so that in theory the timing should never change over its lifetime.
No.
Firstly, I am not an imbecile, who can’t understand what dirty fuel influence on and what it does not.
Secondly, the service intervals for oil and all filters change are halved by the recommendation of the manufacturers. But, car dealers abused that recommendation to halve all the service intervals in order to earn more money.
Thirdly, it is not a theory, it is a fact.
[quote=”PanicMechanic” post=117967]No.
Firstly, I am not an imbecile, who can’t understand what dirty fuel influence on and what it does not.
Secondly, the service intervals for oil and all filters change are halved by the recommendation of the manufacturers. But, car dealers abused that recommendation to halve all the service intervals in order to earn more money.
Thirdly, it is not a theory, it is a fact.[/quote]
I guess you told me. Good luck to you.
Well, it sounds like you are very familiar with the engine and it’s weak points. So, I suggest you can judge the risks as well as anyone. None of us can see the future.
So if the interval is 120,000 but in your country they cut that in half which is 60,000 km and YOUR car has only 27,000 km which is less than 1/2 of 60,000…
You are no where near the recommended interval. I think you are safe for at least a few years, unless you really drive your car hard. Assuming you take care of it, all should be fine.
Consider this – when new cars are built, they use factory OEM parts. Anything else is aftermarket and not likely to last as long. Anytime something is taken apart, it potentially invites other problems to occur. Therefore, you would be taking a bigger risk by having it changed so soon.
When your mechanic inspects it, he should have SOLID reasons for wanting to change it. You already know he is going to say you should (so he can make the money). If he shows you signs it is worn, take note and then compare those signs with stuff on the web. Maybe it is oily, has considerable cracks, has rounded edges on top, teeth look bad…It is unsettling just thinking about something bad happening to our cars. We hear a noise or the idle goes off center for a second and yes we think, “Oh my god, the car is gonna blow!” The timing belt “might” break. A brand new one “might” break. A power steering hose “might” leak onto the exhaust and cause a fire. Anything “might” happen but you need to be realistic. Don’t go spending a fortune based on nervous speculations.
Most people never think about car maintenance until something breaks. You are one step ahead of that game. Also – it doesn’t take a mechanic to see if the belt passes a visual inspection. Just take a little time to know what to look for. Though a visual inspection is no guarantee, here is the conclusion –
Your car has low miles/kilometers.
If the timing belt looks good, it probably is.I could not login yesterday.
Thanks Summer_Night.
Car is not driven hard at all.
I know that “first install” parts (factory parts, OEM,…) are better quality, as you said, so that is the extra reason for not changing the belt yet.
I will tell mechanic to inspect the belt (but without taking it off), and if it is completely dry, no wear and cracks, I will not change it yet.
In my opinion although the mileage is low you are still at the recommended 5 year interval, I notice this is not halved.
To visually check the belt MAY give an indication of tooth wear and cracks externally but it is not possible to see inside the belt for any wear/broken strands. The rollers and tensioner will be sealed units so you cannot see the condition of grease or bearings etc.
In my opinion I would follow manufacturer recommendations.
The choice at the end of the day is yours but weigh up the cost of a top end rebuild against the cost of a new belt kit.
You could get years out of the current belt but it will need replacing at some point hopefully before it gives up.
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