Throttle cable vs ETC “Fly by Wire”

[Gary]

This topic has been on my mind for a while now and as I’ve driven and worked on both types, I believe I can give my objective opinion on the matter.
Now, let me start off saying driving a cable operated throttle is superior and gives you far more control. There is a direct connection between you and the throttle and it feels real…not synthetic. Such a simple system is cheap and simplistic to work on and replace if necessary. It is also superior as you can fix such a system on the side of the road with some ingenuity to get you to where you can properly fix it rather than calling a tow.

Now we get to ETC(electronic throttle control). We have an indirect connection to the throttle through the ECM by way of multiple sensors. The APP(accelerator pedal position sensor) and the TPS (throttle position sensor) are the inputs and outputs of this system. The APP “requests” the computer to send signal to the TPS to open the throttle(or close it). This produces a synthetic feel and potentially bad response timing compared to a traditional direct linkage. The throttle may “hang” as well before the RPMs drop which I personally find rather annoying. This system is MUCH more expensive and cannot be fixed on the side of the road. It also is subject to EMI Electromagnetic interference due to it being completely electronic by nature. In most if not all cases, when replacing the throttle body/sensors for this system, it requires a TPS reset through a computer.

However, it does have some advantages.
1. Superior cruise control
2. Easy traction control
3. Better Emissions control
4. Potentially better MPG
5. Tunability

Now y’all must be wondering…Chevyman we know you, you either hate or don’t care about those things. You would be correct, I don’t… however the manufacturers do and need to. This is why it is now universal among manufacturers and the throttle cable has gone the way of the dodo. I don’t like it but it is the way it is. I will continue to drive throttle cable vehicles personally as it is a more “one with your machine feeling” without electronic nannies. Durability, ease of service and value for my money matter to me above all else.

Topic

[rod]

Just read your piece about cable linked and electronic throttle bodies. Now I am curious if a means of reprogramming the TPS is available to the diyer? And would it be expensive? Thanks interesting piece.

[Gary]

[quote=”hammerhead812″ post=129797]Just read your piece about cable linked and electronic throttle bodies. Now I am curious if a means of reprogramming the TPS is available to the diyer? And would it be expensive? Thanks interesting piece.[/quote] Glad my write-up helped you. Reprogramming the TPS can be accomplished through programs like HP tuners as well as certain scan tools. I highly recommend HP tuners as a learning tool for tuning and programming if you have the patience to learn it.

[Lorrin Barth]

Yeah, having a computer in control in charge of the throttle of my car – not going to happen.

I come from a car forum where several people took it upon themselves to completely decompile and figure out what was in the ECU. The movement first started with the DSM crowd. That car first appeared in 1990. By about 1995 most tuners had run of that ECU.

So, it wasn’t long before that same things happened in the forum for my car. Not only did they discover the inner workings of the ECU but they developed software which displays the tables found n the ECU in Excell format. With this software you may make whatever changes you wish. Also, we have a scan tool which displays and graphs whatever parameters you wish to study in order to see how your changes are performing. This latter software costs a few dollars.

I write this just so you may see how these things get done. First you need at least a small community of computer savvy people who get interested in a project like this. Then you need software that can rewrite the ECU ROM and software that can monitor it.

[Gary]

[quote=”barneyb” post=129944]Yeah, having a computer in control in charge of the throttle of my car – not going to happen. [/quote]

http://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2015/kia-recalls-sorento-fail-accelerate.shtml
^This as well as Toyota unintended acceleration all point to the same conclusion…a cable is more reliable and more failsafe. Plus, all the above reasons I mentioned in my original post bring me to the same thing. I will never buy anything with a computer controlled throttle.

[Andrew Button]

The reasons by drive-by-wire ? Convenience, ya, uh huh. The reasons that Gm and others stated they moved to this was traction control, stability control, blah blah blah. The real reason behind this that any non physical link through an ECM can also be unlinked. For awhile now, systems have been engineered with back doors that we may have not even thought of and those back doors are not used for gramma coming to dinner with a pie, if you know what I mean. I won’t have anything to do with drive-by-wire, but what I prefer over cable is mechanical rods. Full adjustable, no nefarious links and codes and paths to be screwed with. Fly by wire was the first step in the whole frog in the pot for car buyers, then it was active braking, electric steering with no link, the list goes on. When people get wise to how many problems this type of useless junk can have, and the ability for hackers, or big brother to intrude, it will make the value of anything that a normal person can keep running far exceed the code driven crap boxes being made now.

[Gary]

[quote=”andrewbutton442″ post=130310]The reasons by drive-by-wire ? Convenience, ya, uh huh. The reasons that Gm and others stated they moved to this was traction control, stability control, blah blah blah. The real reason behind this that any non physical link through an ECM can also be unlinked. For awhile now, systems have been engineered with back doors that we may have not even thought of and those back doors are not used for gramma coming to dinner with a pie, if you know what I mean. I won’t have anything to do with drive-by-wire, but what I prefer over cable is mechanical rods. Full adjustable, no nefarious links and codes and paths to be screwed with. Fly by wire was the first step in the whole frog in the pot for car buyers, then it was active braking, electric steering with no link, the list goes on. When people get wise to how many problems this type of useless junk can have, and the ability for hackers, or big brother to intrude, it will make the value of anything that a normal person can keep running far exceed the code driven crap boxes being made now.[/quote] I agree. Call me crazy, but the reason I think the gov is pushing for electric cars is because they can control the electric grid. They can’t control a gasoline, alcohol, CNG, Hydrogen, or Diesel powered engine. They are too versatile and substitutes for fuel can be made. If the electrical grid is shut down, they stop private transit if everyone has one of those electric cars. Of course this is just a theory, but it does have some truth behind it.

[Jamie Hoffman]

[quote=”andrewbutton442″ post=130310] Fly by wire was the first step in the whole frog in the pot for car buyers, then it was active braking, electric steering with no link, the list goes on. When people get wise to how many problems this type of useless junk can have, and the ability for hackers, or big brother to intrude, it will make the value of anything that a normal person can keep running far exceed the code driven crap boxes being made now.[/quote]
I’m almost in full agreement with you. Almost. I personally hate how lazy people have become in regards to driving and just cars as a whole. As I’ve mentioned, there is just about nothing I hate more than most cars being automatics nowadays. Automatic transmissions? Big, dumb, expensive, prone to breaking, and altogether just for the lazy people who can’t muster the energy to work a third pedal and a shifter (while SITTING DOWN, nonetheless :angry: ). This “e-throttle” junk you mentioned? Expensive and unnecessary. All this Bluetooth hand-free calling and web browsing applications? Seriously? Do people not know how to just enjoy driving a car anymore? Must we taint the experience of driving a nice car with keeping up with what some mid-30s soccer mom who practically lives on Facebook is doing? But I do believe that some things are, while not necessary, convenient. I personally like power steering. And I think TPM systems are pretty cool. But then again, we need to keep everyone educated on how to take tired pressure the real way, don’t we? 😛 Anyway. Like I said, I agree with you for the most part. None of this new technology that most real automotive enthusiasts will look upon distastefully is necessary. If you really wanna get into it, fuel injection isn’t exactly a requirement. Carburetors exist, and they function quite well for those who know how to maintain them. Even V or flat arrangement engines do no more than save space. What it comes down to is that the human race is lazy, and we’re never happy unless we feel as though we’re “advancing”. Sad to say. Very sad indeed. I fear that one day, I won’t see any cars with three pedals anymore. 🙁

[Gary]

[quote=”MrFancyKeys” post=131146][quote=”andrewbutton442″ post=130310] Fly by wire was the first step in the whole frog in the pot for car buyers, then it was active braking, electric steering with no link, the list goes on. When people get wise to how many problems this type of useless junk can have, and the ability for hackers, or big brother to intrude, it will make the value of anything that a normal person can keep running far exceed the code driven crap boxes being made now.[/quote]
I’m almost in full agreement with you. Almost. I personally hate how lazy people have become in regards to driving and just cars as a whole. As I’ve mentioned, there is just about nothing I hate more than most cars being automatics nowadays. Automatic transmissions? Big, dumb, expensive, prone to breaking, and altogether just for the lazy people who can’t muster the energy to work a third pedal and a shifter (while SITTING DOWN, nonetheless :angry: ). This “e-throttle” junk you mentioned? Expensive and unnecessary. All this Bluetooth hand-free calling and web browsing applications? Seriously? Do people not know how to just enjoy driving a car anymore? Must we taint the experience of driving a nice car with keeping up with what some mid-30s soccer mom who practically lives on Facebook is doing? But I do believe that some things are, while not necessary, convenient. I personally like power steering. And I think TPM systems are pretty cool. But then again, we need to keep everyone educated on how to take tired pressure the real way, don’t we? 😛 Anyway. Like I said, I agree with you for the most part. None of this new technology that most real automotive enthusiasts will look upon distastefully is necessary. If you really wanna get into it, fuel injection isn’t exactly a requirement. Carburetors exist, and they function quite well for those who know how to maintain them. Even V or flat arrangement engines do no more than save space. What it comes down to is that the human race is lazy, and we’re never happy unless we feel as though we’re “advancing”. Sad to say. Very sad indeed. I fear that one day, I won’t see any cars with three pedals anymore. :([/quote] These electronic and automatic nannies are keeping people from experiencing the real joy of driving. Consider this, before the EPA and Ralph Nader, auto manufacturers had free reign to do whatever they wanted and market to EXACTLY what customers wanted in a vehicle. In those days, cars had soul, were fun and people were connected to the driving experience. Now, cars are all humdrum and boring…sameness all around unless you have the money to drop on a real performance car. The global economy has made things too uniform as well. Platforms that suit the world market rather than individual markets. This also contributes to a lack of uniqueness an soul. In the old days you didn’t have to add soul to a car, it was already there.

[Author]

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