Thinking about new car, need some feedback

[dan jan]

Hello!

I am looking for a new car and I wanted others opinions about said cars in relation to repairs, costs , and things of that nature.

Been fan of ETCG for a very long time, learned a lot watching his videos, figured this would be the best place for this.

Car’s I have narrowed down my choices are

14 Corolla S
12-13 Subaru Legacy or Impreza
12 Prius 3

Reliability and over all low cost of ownership is key here of course.

I wonder tho,how are these CVT’s? Every model except for base 14 Corolla comes with a CVT.

A few of my friends at school told me their Nissans of recent vintage had some sort of transmission issue. My impression was that Nissan’s CVTs were one of the best in business… Makes me wonder if any of these cars will make 150k without a repair or rebuild.

My current 2000 Accord had transmission failure, dont want to experience that again.

Another question I had is toward Subaru Owners, how easy is the repair on these cars? Are the parts significantly more expensive than other Japs? I understand they need regular break work , I noticed a lot of that when looking at CARFAX reports. I am talking 1 yr / 1.5 yr replacement on at lease one axle.

I also understand that if the Catalytic goes I am looking at an expensive bill.

I may need the AWD as I have future plans to move around the country for short term jobs.

My Primary use case is a reliable car I can drive as an everyday car, and also be able to not hate it on road trips. Only two people will be in the car, with no future plan to extend that number. My current Accord has decent room, but the open back of the Prius could be the difference of being able to take a product home from store or not.

Currently I drive 20-25K per year with 50% being road trips, lots of city driving as well.

Thanks for all input.

Topic

[Daniel]

Be aware that the Toyota hybrids don’t actually have a CVT in the conventional sense, with conventional being a variable pitch pulley system AKA cone and belt.

The Toyota hybrids are just called E-CVT because that is the closest existing category to lump them into. How they work is a planetary gear called the power split device and the 2 motor-generators. MG2 is connected to the final drive and ring gear, MG1 is connected to the sun gear, and the engine is connected to the planet carrier. The effective gear ratio is controlled by the speed and direction difference between the 3 components. If MG1 freewheels it is neutral, if it is turning faster than the engine and is generating power to feed MG2 it is a low gear, if it is turning slower than the engine or even backwards it is overdrive. To turn backwards the roles are reversed so power is actually drawn from MG2 to drive MG1, causing a recirculation of energy.

A note on the Prius specifically: be aware that the core purpose of this model is for low lung damaging emissions and it can and does sacrifice MPG for the sake of being cleaner. This means if you have many short trips of less than 20 minutes or so it won’t get very good fuel economy. This has always been true, the NHW11 model had the HCAC system, basically a special catalytic converter which trapped the cold start unburned fuel, the NHW20 had the hot coolant storage “Thermos” (vacuum Dewar) to help it heat up faster, and the ZVW30 you are considering has exhaust heat recovery, basically a coolant jacket around the exhaust system.

[Jesse]

[quote=”danielthechskid” post=127806]Be aware that the Toyota hybrids don’t actually have a CVT in the conventional sense, with conventional being a variable pitch pulley system AKA cone and belt.

The Toyota hybrids are just called E-CVT because that is the closest existing category to lump them into. How they work is a planetary gear called the power split device and the 2 motor-generators. MG2 is connected to the final drive and ring gear, MG1 is connected to the sun gear, and the engine is connected to the planet carrier. The effective gear ratio is controlled by the speed and direction difference between the 3 components. If MG1 freewheels it is neutral, if it is turning faster than the engine and is generating power to feed MG2 it is a low gear, if it is turning slower than the engine or even backwards it is overdrive. To turn backwards the roles are reversed so power is actually drawn from MG2 to drive MG1, causing a recirculation of energy.

A note on the Prius specifically: be aware that the core purpose of this model is for low lung damaging emissions and it can and does sacrifice MPG for the sake of being cleaner. This means if you have many short trips of less than 20 minutes or so it won’t get very good fuel economy. This has always been true, the NHW11 model had the HCAC system, basically a special catalytic converter which trapped the cold start unburned fuel, the NHW20 had the hot coolant storage “Thermos” (vacuum Dewar) to help it heat up faster, and the ZVW30 you are considering has exhaust heat recovery, basically a coolant jacket around the exhaust system.[/quote]
The new Prius’s also have an issue of burning oil from what I’ve seen, repairs can be pretty costly as well.

[dan jan]

danielthechskid:
Thats good to know, that its more automatic than it is CVT.

This might actually make me want the car more.
It would still be above 30 i would think for short trips… which is more in par with other gasoline cars like Corolla.

Pithy Radish:
Thats a shame, is there something specific thats going out?

[Jesse]

[quote=”voltizar” post=127808]danielthechskid:
Thats good to know, that its more automatic than it is CVT.

This might actually make me want the car more.
It would still be above 30 i would think for short trips… which is more in par with other gasoline cars like Corolla.

Pithy Radish:
Thats a shame, is there something specific thats going out?[/quote]
Many of the new Toyota’s are having a problem with defective piston rings from what I’m hearing, Highlanders, Camry’s, Xb’s and Prius’s have been especially bad from what I have seen. Defective piston rings is bad news for the engine, it’s definitely a weak spot in Toyota’s lineup. I’m an entry level technician at a Toyota Dealership, I’ve been disheartened by the decline in Toyota quality lately. I’ve seen some Prius’s starting to burn oil at 50,000 miles. Repairs can also be fairly pricey when a component goes out on a Prius.

The Corolla is the most solid vehicle that you listed in my opinion. Haven’t seen very many Corolla’s have problems. We’ve got a rental, and parts runner Corolla from 13′ that is abused by the dealership. It so far has had zero problems. I’ve seen one Corolla come in that suffered from a rough idle, that is it. It is also more fun to drive than the Prius by far, zippy around town, and enough passing power on the freeway to keep you happy.

Subaru’s are a bit of a niche car. You’re going to take a hit in fuel mileage compared to most similarly sized Hondas, and Toyotas due to its AWD system. They also run a different type of engine called the boxer. Instead of sitting upright in the engine bay, the engine sits on its side. This makes maintenance items such as spark plugs and spark plug wires a bit more expensive. A common failure point in older Subaru’s was the head gasket, I’m not sure if this is the case on newer ones, it’s worth checking out. Subaru’s most definitely do have more expensive parts than Honda or Toyota. They also don’t respond very well to aftermarket oil filters from what I hear.

All in all Subaru’s are reliable vehicles, maintenance is inherently more expensive due to the AWD system, and parts cost. Every vehicle has pattern failures, some worse than others.

On a sidenote have you looked up the Honda Fit? It’s a small vehicle, that has great gas mileage and a lot of space (an oxymoron I know).

[dan jan]

Corolla does seem the best choice, and I like the looks as well.

Did not think about the Fit, because its cheapest way to make a car. Handling and what not might not be great.
Cargo space is bigger than my Accord, this is news to me thanks for the recommendation will go for test drive this weekend.

[quote=”Pithy Radish” post=127811][quote=”voltizar” post=127808]danielthechskid:
Thats good to know, that its more automatic than it is CVT.

This might actually make me want the car more.
It would still be above 30 i would think for short trips… which is more in par with other gasoline cars like Corolla.

Pithy Radish:
Thats a shame, is there something specific thats going out?[/quote]
Many of the new Toyota’s are having a problem with defective piston rings from what I’m hearing, Highlanders, Camry’s, Xb’s and Prius’s have been especially bad from what I have seen. Defective piston rings is bad news for the engine, it’s definitely a weak spot in Toyota’s lineup. I’m an entry level technician at a Toyota Dealership, I’ve been disheartened by the decline in Toyota quality lately. I’ve seen some Prius’s starting to burn oil at 50,000 miles. Repairs can also be fairly pricey when a component goes out on a Prius.

The Corolla is the most solid vehicle that you listed in my opinion. Haven’t seen very many Corolla’s have problems. We’ve got a rental, and parts runner Corolla from 13′ that is abused by the dealership. It so far has had zero problems. I’ve seen one Corolla come in that suffered from a rough idle, that is it. It is also more fun to drive than the Prius by far, zippy around town, and enough passing power on the freeway to keep you happy.

Subaru’s are a bit of a niche car. You’re going to take a hit in fuel mileage compared to most similarly sized Hondas, and Toyotas due to its AWD system. They also run a different type of engine called the boxer. Instead of sitting upright in the engine bay, the engine sits on its side. This makes maintenance items such as spark plugs and spark plug wires a bit more expensive. A common failure point in older Subaru’s was the head gasket, I’m not sure if this is the case on newer ones, it’s worth checking out. Subaru’s most definitely do have more expensive parts than Honda or Toyota. They also don’t respond very well to aftermarket oil filters from what I hear.

All in all Subaru’s are reliable vehicles, maintenance is inherently more expensive due to the AWD system, and parts cost. Every vehicle has pattern failures, some worse than others.

On a sidenote have you looked up the Honda Fit? It’s a small vehicle, that has great gas mileage and a lot of space (an oxymoron I know).[/quote]

[Gary]

Take my advice, you don’t want a Toyota nowdays. You will be happier with the Subaru.
http://www.ericthecarguy.com/kunena/4-General-Automotive-Discussion/56186-toyota-quality-quietly-going-down-the-crapper

[Jesse]

[quote=”Chevyman21″ post=127818]Take my advice, you don’t want a Toyota nowdays. You will be happier with the Subaru.
http://www.ericthecarguy.com/kunena/-General-Automotive-Discussion/56186-toyota-quality-quietly-going-down-the-crapper%5B/quote%5D
Corolla’s aren’t bad, haven’t seen anything that would warrant concern. If I were to buy any new Toyota it would be either a Corolla or a 4runner, Tundra or Tacoma. Those seem to be the most solidly build vehicles in Toyota’s lineup from what I’ve seen.

[Jesse]

[quote=”voltizar” post=127816]Corolla does seem the best choice, and I like the looks as well.

Did not think about the Fit, because its cheapest way to make a car. Handling and what not might not be great.
Cargo space is bigger than my Accord, this is news to me thanks for the recommendation will go for test drive this weekend.

[quote=”Pithy Radish” post=127811][quote=”voltizar” post=127808]danielthechskid:
Thats good to know, that its more automatic than it is CVT.

This might actually make me want the car more.
It would still be above 30 i would think for short trips… which is more in par with other gasoline cars like Corolla.

Pithy Radish:
Thats a shame, is there something specific thats going out?[/quote]
Many of the new Toyota’s are having a problem with defective piston rings from what I’m hearing, Highlanders, Camry’s, Xb’s and Prius’s have been especially bad from what I have seen. Defective piston rings is bad news for the engine, it’s definitely a weak spot in Toyota’s lineup. I’m an entry level technician at a Toyota Dealership, I’ve been disheartened by the decline in Toyota quality lately. I’ve seen some Prius’s starting to burn oil at 50,000 miles. Repairs can also be fairly pricey when a component goes out on a Prius.

The Corolla is the most solid vehicle that you listed in my opinion. Haven’t seen very many Corolla’s have problems. We’ve got a rental, and parts runner Corolla from 13′ that is abused by the dealership. It so far has had zero problems. I’ve seen one Corolla come in that suffered from a rough idle, that is it. It is also more fun to drive than the Prius by far, zippy around town, and enough passing power on the freeway to keep you happy.

Subaru’s are a bit of a niche car. You’re going to take a hit in fuel mileage compared to most similarly sized Hondas, and Toyotas due to its AWD system. They also run a different type of engine called the boxer. Instead of sitting upright in the engine bay, the engine sits on its side. This makes maintenance items such as spark plugs and spark plug wires a bit more expensive. A common failure point in older Subaru’s was the head gasket, I’m not sure if this is the case on newer ones, it’s worth checking out. Subaru’s most definitely do have more expensive parts than Honda or Toyota. They also don’t respond very well to aftermarket oil filters from what I hear.

All in all Subaru’s are reliable vehicles, maintenance is inherently more expensive due to the AWD system, and parts cost. Every vehicle has pattern failures, some worse than others.

On a sidenote have you looked up the Honda Fit? It’s a small vehicle, that has great gas mileage and a lot of space (an oxymoron I know).[/quote][/quote]
The Honda Fit is probably my favorite car from the Honda line-up. They are fun cars to drive, and they offer very good utilitarian function. A family member of mine owns one, I drive it quite a bit. It has great acceleration, and you can throw it into corners at high speeds, it actually handles quite well. It feels almost like the Honda’s that everyone has fond memories of from the 90s. If you’re not using the back seat they fold down flush to the floor leaving you with a shocking amount of space.

[Gary]

[quote=”Pithy Radish” post=127829][quote=”Chevyman21″ post=127818]Take my advice, you don’t want a Toyota nowdays. You will be happier with the Subaru.
http://www.ericthecarguy.com/kunena/-General-Automotive-Discussion/56186-toyota-quality-quietly-going-down-the-crapper%5B/quote%5D
Corolla’s aren’t bad, haven’t seen anything that would warrant concern. If I were to buy any new Toyota it would be either a Corolla or a 4runner, Tundra or Tacoma. Those seem to be the most solidly build vehicles in Toyota’s lineup from what I’ve seen.[/quote] Heres what would concern me from what I’ve seen and heard, Toyota’s customer service. We know Toyota’s corporate policy now(deny deny deny and blame the consumer). I would not want to support a company like that nor would I feel safe letting someone I care about be subjected to it. Horror stories galore from people I know personally about just how horrible Toyota’s customer relations have become. I’m just speaking from what I see, and I see deceptive and shameful business practices. If I buy a brand new car/truck, the company should stand behind their product..which Toyota from what I see does not. The way I see it, they are simply skating on their reputation however this won’t work forever.
To the OP, buy what you like best but just keep these things in mind.

[Jesse]

[quote=”Chevyman21″ post=127831][quote=”Pithy Radish” post=127829][quote=”Chevyman21″ post=127818]Take my advice, you don’t want a Toyota nowdays. You will be happier with the Subaru.
http://www.ericthecarguy.com/kunena/-General-Automotive-Discussion/56186-toyota-quality-quietly-going-down-the-crapper%5B/quote%5D
Corolla’s aren’t bad, haven’t seen anything that would warrant concern. If I were to buy any new Toyota it would be either a Corolla or a 4runner, Tundra or Tacoma. Those seem to be the most solidly build vehicles in Toyota’s lineup from what I’ve seen.[/quote] Heres what would concern me from what I’ve seen and heard, Toyota’s customer service. We know Toyota’s corporate policy now(deny deny deny and blame the consumer). I would not want to support a company like that nor would I feel safe letting someone I care about be subjected to it. Horror stories galore from people I know personally about just how horrible Toyota’s customer relations have become. I’m just speaking from what I see, and I see deceptive and shameful business practices. If I buy a brand new car/truck, the company should stand behind their product..which Toyota from what I see does not. The way I see it, they are simply skating on their reputation however this won’t work forever.
To the OP, buy what you like best but just keep these things in mind.[/quote]
I do agree with what Chevyman is saying here (and this is coming from an employee of Toyota) — Toyota is simply skating by on reputation now. Since about 2006 their vehicles have been going downhill. Their customer service is not very good either, Toyota corporate does not care about you, nor do they care about your car.

[Gary]

[quote=”Pithy Radish” post=127834][quote=”Chevyman21″ post=127831][quote=”Pithy Radish” post=127829][quote=”Chevyman21″ post=127818]Take my advice, you don’t want a Toyota nowdays. You will be happier with the Subaru.
http://www.ericthecarguy.com/kunena/-General-Automotive-Discussion/56186-toyota-quality-quietly-going-down-the-crapper%5B/quote%5D
Corolla’s aren’t bad, haven’t seen anything that would warrant concern. If I were to buy any new Toyota it would be either a Corolla or a 4runner, Tundra or Tacoma. Those seem to be the most solidly build vehicles in Toyota’s lineup from what I’ve seen.[/quote] Heres what would concern me from what I’ve seen and heard, Toyota’s customer service. We know Toyota’s corporate policy now(deny deny deny and blame the consumer). I would not want to support a company like that nor would I feel safe letting someone I care about be subjected to it. Horror stories galore from people I know personally about just how horrible Toyota’s customer relations have become. I’m just speaking from what I see, and I see deceptive and shameful business practices. If I buy a brand new car/truck, the company should stand behind their product..which Toyota from what I see does not. The way I see it, they are simply skating on their reputation however this won’t work forever.
To the OP, buy what you like best but just keep these things in mind.[/quote]
I do agree with what Chevyman is saying here (and this is coming from an employee of Toyota) — Toyota is simply skating by on reputation now. Since about 2006 their vehicles have been going downhill. Their customer service is not very good either, Toyota corporate does not care about you, nor do they care about your car.[/quote] Exactly. That’s all I’m trying to say really. The Japanese makes are no better than then American and European makes at this point. In fact, American car quality has met or exceeded Jap quality in this day and age. I know the OP is set on a Jap make but GM, Ford and Dodge have some great offerings as well.

[Thomas Ferry]

Personally I’d stay away from any newer Toyota. They are just utter crap compared to 90’s and early 2000’s models. Also I would never consider a hybrid on account eventually you gotta replace those batteries and they will be bloody expensive and prolly worth more then actual car is worth. They also tend to not be user service friendly which means its prolly a bitch for a service tech to.

Now Subaru’s are really well built cars. I love the Impreza line and they are extremely serviceable by the owner. The only real flaw I’ve ever seen with Subaru’s is the Boxer engines can get horrible gas mileage but that kinda comes with the territory cause they are for the mostly all wheel drive.

[Author]

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