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[quote=”EricTheCarGuy” post=126243][quote=”13aceofspades13″ post=126165]ecoboost //press the gas pedal “well I guess I am going to accelerate now…”
small block V8 “grRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!”
if you would have put that eco boost engine in that faromont I would have been admittedly frustrated, I am not a big fan of the Ecoboost, I don’t like the idea of it, and of coarse there are tons of electronic inputs for the PCM… just got too love technology. plust lets just face it, a V8 is just cooler and sounds better B)
buy the way eric, that Ford F-150 you drove, I made the bumper for it… ;)[/quote]
Yea, it was fun to consider the option but the expense and effort wouldn’t really be worth it in the end I think. A solid V8 will do the job just fine with little hassle.
So cool to think you made the bumper for the truck.[/quote]
not trying too hastle you for your choices, but i am thinking pretty much the same thing you are as far as the V6, that is a older car, the Ecoboost is a brand new design of engine, i don’t think they quite mate well together, not too mentune the hastle you would have to go through to get it too work, personally like you stated i also don’t think its worth it…
yes i work in the department where we chrome plate those bumpers, so if your truck had chrome bumpers there is a high chance i had a helping hand in getting chrome plated, we send them bumpers fully assembled too the dearborne plant right here in Michigan, those bumpers give us working american jobs, so does that truck because well its assembled right here in Michgan USA! every time i see one of those trucks i smile and say “yea i helped make the bumper for that truck.” 🙂
[quote=”MDK22″ post=126330]I am wondering why you are not going with a detroit locker in the rear?
Also in the future years are you going to continue to mod the Fairmont or are you just getting your feet wet with it?[/quote]
A project like the Fairmont is never really done. I’m sure there will be check in’s along the way. Keep in mind this will be good for a LOT of videos. Every vehicle system will eventually be covered.
That said, I do have ideas for my next project which I’m not ready to disclose at this time. I want to see how this one goes first before I commit to those ideas.
[quote=”MDK22″ post=126330]I am wondering why you are not going with a detroit locker in the rear?
Also in the future years are you going to continue to mod the Fairmont or are you just getting your feet wet with it?[/quote]
This isn’t going to be a drag car, it’s going to be a ‘fun’ car. I believe a limited slip will do just fine for that propose.
[quote=”AKGC” post=126331]About the cat and engine. Just wanted to point this out, not directed at the build.
Regs say that the cat has to “match” the engine.
Meaning, if you put in an engine that still requires emissions testing (25 years or newer), in an older car, the emissions requirements go by the engine year.
another thing is that regs also say that you aren’t allowed to put in an engine that is older that the car that it’s going into.[/quote]
Depends on where you live. Sure there are federal regulations on emissions but they are regulated by the state. I’m in Ohio and there is no longer any emissions testing. In addition, the vehicle is older than 25 years which puts it into a different category.
I honestly don’t want to run catalytic converters. Mostly because of the expense. As I said in the video, I won’t be driving this car every day so I don’t believe it’s environmental impact will be of any significance.
Still, you raise some good points about an issue I should really look into before making videos about a project and posting them for all the world to see.
[quote=”andrewbutton442″ post=126336]For what the car is intended for, forced induction is unnecessary. What a lot of people tend to forget is that a good torquey motor like a 302 doesn’t need a crutch like other smaller motors in order to do whatever it needs to do. As Eric said, normally aspirated small block Fords make MORE than 1 hp per cubic inch without forced induction and thats plenty. Power steering is an unecessary expense, a good rack needs no assist, and manual steering gives more road feel. A Fairmont is not a front wheel drive car that needs all these silly things to cover up its downfalls. Power brakes with 4 discs, not needed. Plus depending the camshaft, the engine might not power a booster anyway. Catalytic coverters are absolute waste of time on a car with a carburetor, and I think they should be removed from everything, they just increase back pressure and steal power.[/quote]
You’re speakn my language. It’s nice to know that someone ‘gets it’. However, I think cats should be used on vehicles that require them. I feel we do owe the planet something, and if not the planet, then the rest of the humans we share space with on it. That said, I’m not going to run cats on the Fairmont unless I have to.
[quote=”Chevyman21″ post=126338][quote=”andrewbutton442″ post=126336]For what the car is intended for, forced induction is unnecessary. What a lot of people tend to forget is that a good torquey motor like a 302 doesn’t need a crutch like other smaller motors in order to do whatever it needs to do. As Eric said, normally aspirated small block Fords make MORE than 1 hp per cubic inch without forced induction and thats plenty. Power steering is an unecessary expense, a good rack needs no assist, and manual steering gives more road feel. A Fairmont is not a front wheel drive car that needs all these silly things to cover up its downfalls. Power brakes with 4 discs, not needed. Plus depending the camshaft, the engine might not power a booster anyway. Catalytic coverters are absolute waste of time on a car with a carburetor, and I think they should be removed from everything, they just increase back pressure and steal power.[/quote] There’s no replacement for displacement. I can still supercharge an 8 cylinder and make more power than any turbo 6 can possibly imagine. Cubic inches does equal power and potential. As far as cats go…they are a main reason our leaded gas went away. The lead would coat the inside of the cats making them ineffective. Cats and carbs don’t go well together either. If we still had leaded gas, we would have no reason to use ethanol as an octane booster, but I digress.[/quote]
The reason leaded gas went away was because of the expense and the advent of better exhaust valves that didn’t require it. Not to mention eliminating putting harmful lead into the atmosphere. Saving catalytic converters was secondary.
As to forced induction. One thing that also needs to be considered is reliability. The more you stress an engine, the more you’ll shorten it’s life. Granted, with a high compression engine that I’m thinking of, that can also cause stress, but not in the same way forced induction would. As I’ve said many times in the course of this project, I want to DRIVE this car. I also want to be able to pass a gas station now and then. Forced induction throws that right out the window.
I will let my forum people know that in the back of my mind I had thought of adding nitrous for a little extra kick. I won’t even think about that until the rest of the build is done and I see how the plan works out. After that, I’ll consider other HP upgrades like nitrous.
[quote=”13aceofspades13″ post=126372][quote=”EricTheCarGuy” post=126243][quote=”13aceofspades13″ post=126165]ecoboost //press the gas pedal “well I guess I am going to accelerate now…”
small block V8 “grRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!”
if you would have put that eco boost engine in that faromont I would have been admittedly frustrated, I am not a big fan of the Ecoboost, I don’t like the idea of it, and of coarse there are tons of electronic inputs for the PCM… just got too love technology. plust lets just face it, a V8 is just cooler and sounds better B)
buy the way eric, that Ford F-150 you drove, I made the bumper for it… ;)[/quote]
Yea, it was fun to consider the option but the expense and effort wouldn’t really be worth it in the end I think. A solid V8 will do the job just fine with little hassle.
So cool to think you made the bumper for the truck.[/quote]
not trying too hastle you for your choices, but i am thinking pretty much the same thing you are as far as the V6, that is a older car, the Ecoboost is a brand new design of engine, i don’t think they quite mate well together, not too mentune the hastle you would have to go through to get it too work, personally like you stated i also don’t think its worth it…
yes i work in the department where we chrome plate those bumpers, so if your truck had chrome bumpers there is a high chance i had a helping hand in getting chrome plated, we send them bumpers fully assembled too the dearborne plant right here in Michigan, those bumpers give us working american jobs, so does that truck because well its assembled right here in Michgan USA! every time i see one of those trucks i smile and say “yea i helped make the bumper for that truck.” :)[/quote]
In the end it just wasn’t practical, from a financial point as well as the physics in actually making something like that happen. Cool idea, it just needs more time to gestate.
My father is a Vietnam vet who worked in manufacturing all his life. After working at an American toy company for 19 years, they let him, and all his coworkers go, and moved the plant to Mexico. This was a difficult time in all of our lives. I know first hand what it’s like to loose American manufacturing. I saw the once prosperous small town I spent some time growing up in, turn into a run down shadow of it’s former self after all the jobs went away. So I too, will crack a little smile every time I see one of this trucks. I’ll also be checking to see if it has chrome bumpers.
Lansing and Detroit are a good example of cities in ruin because of all the jobs that ship out, not only is it that jobs get shipped over seas, more and more jobs are being done buy machines, automated systems don’t need vacations, they don’t get sick or tired, they just need occasional maintenance… so what jobs are here in the US are getting slowly taken buy automated systems, i could go into great detail, but i think it would be a bad idea to do so…
this new truck we are making is going too open a lot of new jobs, a entire new assembly line is being opened some 150 new jobs or so just in our plant, and there will be LOTS… of work hours too, more opportunities too make money, jobs are coming back, its just too bad most of them pay next too nothing, i feel very fortunate too have a job where i make a decent wage… and that engine (as much as i hate it.) is part of the reason i have a job today, even though its a under displaced, over powered, over complex pos, it gives me a job… for now.
[quote=”EricTheCarGuy” post=126417][quote=”Chevyman21″ post=126338][quote=”andrewbutton442″ post=126336]For what the car is intended for, forced induction is unnecessary. What a lot of people tend to forget is that a good torquey motor like a 302 doesn’t need a crutch like other smaller motors in order to do whatever it needs to do. As Eric said, normally aspirated small block Fords make MORE than 1 hp per cubic inch without forced induction and thats plenty. Power steering is an unecessary expense, a good rack needs no assist, and manual steering gives more road feel. A Fairmont is not a front wheel drive car that needs all these silly things to cover up its downfalls. Power brakes with 4 discs, not needed. Plus depending the camshaft, the engine might not power a booster anyway. Catalytic coverters are absolute waste of time on a car with a carburetor, and I think they should be removed from everything, they just increase back pressure and steal power.[/quote] There’s no replacement for displacement. I can still supercharge an 8 cylinder and make more power than any turbo 6 can possibly imagine. Cubic inches does equal power and potential. As far as cats go…they are a main reason our leaded gas went away. The lead would coat the inside of the cats making them ineffective. Cats and carbs don’t go well together either. If we still had leaded gas, we would have no reason to use ethanol as an octane booster, but I digress.[/quote]
The reason leaded gas went away was because of the expense and the advent of better exhaust valves that didn’t require it. Not to mention eliminating putting harmful lead into the atmosphere. Saving catalytic converters was secondary.
As to forced induction. One thing that also needs to be considered is reliability. The more you stress an engine, the more you’ll shorten it’s life. Granted, with a high compression engine that I’m thinking of, that can also cause stress, but not in the same way forced induction would. As I’ve said many times in the course of this project, I want to DRIVE this car. I also want to be able to pass a gas station now and then. Forced induction throws that right out the window.
I will let my forum people know that in the back of my mind I had thought of adding nitrous for a little extra kick. I won’t even think about that until the rest of the build is done and I see how the plan works out. After that, I’ll consider other HP upgrades like nitrous.[/quote] This is true, hardened valve seats eliminated the necessity of leads lubrication purposes. Correct me if I’m wrong though Eric, but didn’t hardened seats come after the advent of unleaded gas? I wasn’t around in the mid 70s to experience it firsthand. All I know is alot of guys did valve seat hardening as leaded gas started to get phased out. In any case, I agree forced induction places unnecessary stresses on an engine when the same objective can be reached with more displacement or higher natural compression. I would love to see nitrous on the Fairmount! That would be awesome.
As I recall, the last PREMIUM gas I saw for sale was in about 1983. Of course we noticed this because we had been running Hi compression engines from the 60s and did NOT want to put unleaded in them due to the lower stated octane, which at that time in colorado about 95 or something. Premium went well over 100 depending on the place. Cars starting in 1971 all had hardened seats, as well as lower compression. The really primo 11.25 iron motors saw the last light of day in 1970 – There were however cars sold even before then that had 8.5 with two barrels that marketed on the fact that they could use unleaded. We had a Toronado with a 425 engine in it, with a 10.25 motor, and it would sit there and shake and rattle for minutes after turning it off once the Premium was no longer in it. Funny nobody really talks about dieseling these days, quite nerve racking.The TEL raised Ron/Mon I believe as well as cushioning the valve seats. Cats were on US cars in 75. I don’t know now, but somehow I remember the nozzle on premium pumps NOT fitting into unleaded gas openings in cars they were to large. Oh what times they were.
[quote=”andrewbutton442″ post=126495]As I recall, the last PREMIUM gas I saw for sale was in about 1983. Of course we noticed this because we had been running Hi compression engines from the 60s and did NOT want to put unleaded in them due to the lower stated octane, which at that time in colorado about 95 or something. Premium went well over 100 depending on the place. Cars starting in 1971 all had hardened seats, as well as lower compression. The really primo 11.25 iron motors saw the last light of day in 1970 – There were however cars sold even before then that had 8.5 with two barrels that marketed on the fact that they could use unleaded. We had a Toronado with a 425 engine in it, with a 10.25 motor, and it would sit there and shake and rattle for minutes after turning it off once the Premium was no longer in it. Funny nobody really talks about dieseling these days, quite nerve racking.The TEL raised Ron/Mon I believe as well as cushioning the valve seats. Cats were on US cars in 75. I don’t know now, but somehow I remember the nozzle on premium pumps NOT fitting into unleaded gas openings in cars they were to large. Oh what times they were.[/quote] That sounds right, thanks for the clarification! Wasn’t 71′ when they also switched from gross HP to net HP ratings?
Yes, it was SAE net with accessories… boo… . It was also the first model year after the passing of the Nixon clean air act. And it was also around that the time that Insurance companies started refusing to insure muscle cars or large CI midsizes, amoung other things. It was also the last formal year for the wonderful GM A Body. 72 was a carryover from previous due to a Strike. It was also in this illustrious year that Chrysler stopped all Hemi and 6 pack stuff MID YEAR. Yep, mid year. Had a friend who bought 6 pack that year and his car was lacking some options, and they said TOUGH LUCK Chrysler performance is OVER. And it was, for the most part. 383s and 340s didn’t hack it. Beginning of the end for the car.
Your video was great. Having a plan is important because plenty of guys want to just modify a car and sometimes end up with something that wasn’t executed well and sell the car soon after. I’m surprised that someone suggested an independent rear suspension when you’re just wanting a performance street car. I would suggest that you could go with 16″ wheels for a taller and more stealthy tire and use a different summer tire. With the correct (manual 😆 ) trans, as long as Fairmonts had one offered from the factory, you will be able to make it look like a factory shifter. I’m excited to see you start with subframe connectors.
[quote=”andrewbutton442″ post=126501]Yes, it was SAE net with accessories… boo… . It was also the first model year after the passing of the Nixon clean air act. And it was also around that the time that Insurance companies started refusing to insure muscle cars or large CI midsizes, amoung other things. It was also the last formal year for the wonderful GM A Body. 72 was a carryover from previous due to a Strike. It was also in this illustrious year that Chrysler stopped all Hemi and 6 pack stuff MID YEAR. Yep, mid year. Had a friend who bought 6 pack that year and his car was lacking some options, and they said TOUGH LUCK Chrysler performance is OVER. And it was, for the most part. 383s and 340s didn’t hack it. Beginning of the end for the car.[/quote] Wow… gotcha. Yup I agree.
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