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Diagnosis with respect to automotive technology is a fascinating process and a necessary process. Guessing just doesn’t cut it.
I cut my diagnostic teeth on a 1966 VW Beetle, and I still apply the things I learned from this car.
Even with OBDII, and all the resources available to us, fundamentally correct understanding is required.
After all, the car is by far the most complex and multi-technology item the average person will ever own. And fixing such a technological item by guesswork is somewhere between inefficient and impossible.
Boy oh boy, do I love me some philosophy! Some people absolutely make me laugh when it comes to diagnostics. It is indeed an art, but really it’s just a skill that comes along with knowledge and experience. I myself do not have a lot of experience (I have some), but I do on occasion attempt to make a diagnosis on something I have absolutely no knowledge about (like some system on a particular make or something). When I do this, I’m basically applying fundamental knowledge along with common sense, if it’s something I don’t have experience with or even really have any knowledge about. The coolest thing about this however is if you end up being correct in your diagnosis regardless of the lack of knowledge/experience of the particular problem with a particular make, just by applying the fundamental basics and some sense. I’d like to think this alone would give you a great head start in good diagnostics and usually allow you to be correct more often than not. Correct me if I’m wrong.
-Steve
Hello Eric,
By far the biggest secrets to the art of Diagnostics is having a procedure (your own) and knowing how the system works and knowing how to use your equipment effectively.
Having the correct equipment and information can help out heaps, also having a service writer/adviser that charges the correct time and getting the full story from the customer helps.
It is ever changing skill set that is always being honed, the study and learning of new systems is never ending.
With flow charts personally I don’t use them but sometimes they have good information in them.
I don’t like how they assume a ohm test is all that is required but there can still be a large voltage drop in the wire.
Once you understand how things work you can be much quicker and accurate than following a flow chart, that you may have to pull half the car apart to do. This can be difference when doing warranty work (flat rate) from eating dinner or not.
The real challenging ones are the ones with no codes. This is where the younger people in the industry really do struggle as we all sometimes really on a trouble code to gain a direction.
Some days it is hard but some are quick and simple, but most are rewarding fixing that broken vehicle that no one else could solve.
As the saying goes “If it was easy everyone would be doing it”.
[quote=”theorhetoric” post=98877]Did I notice tinted windows on the Fairmont in this video?![/quote]
Yea, it was like that when I bought it. With the addition of the dealer installed AC, and very little rust, I’m thinking this car spent some time in Florida or someplace warm in winter.
[quote=”roastlambpie” post=99013]Hello Eric,
By far the biggest secrets to the art of Diagnostics is having a procedure (your own) and knowing how the system works and knowing how to use your equipment effectively.
Having the correct equipment and information can help out heaps, also having a service writer/adviser that charges the correct time and getting the full story from the customer helps.
It is ever changing skill set that is always being honed, the study and learning of new systems is never ending.
With flow charts personally I don’t use them but sometimes they have good information in them.
I don’t like how they assume a ohm test is all that is required but there can still be a large voltage drop in the wire.
Once you understand how things work you can be much quicker and accurate than following a flow chart, that you may have to pull half the car apart to do. This can be difference when doing warranty work (flat rate) from eating dinner or not.
The real challenging ones are the ones with no codes. This is where the younger people in the industry really do struggle as we all sometimes really on a trouble code to gain a direction.
Some days it is hard but some are quick and simple, but most are rewarding fixing that broken vehicle that no one else could solve.
As the saying goes “If it was easy everyone would be doing it”.[/quote]
Well said.
[quote=”MOTORHEAD_69R/T” post=98833]Boy oh boy, do I love me some philosophy! Some people absolutely make me laugh when it comes to diagnostics. It is indeed an art, but really it’s just a skill that comes along with knowledge and experience. I myself do not have a lot of experience (I have some), but I do on occasion attempt to make a diagnosis on something I have absolutely no knowledge about (like some system on a particular make or something). When I do this, I’m basically applying fundamental knowledge along with common sense, if it’s something I don’t have experience with or even really have any knowledge about. The coolest thing about this however is if you end up being correct in your diagnosis regardless of the lack of knowledge/experience of the particular problem with a particular make, just by applying the fundamental basics and some sense. I’d like to think this alone would give you a great head start in good diagnostics and usually allow you to be correct more often than not. Correct me if I’m wrong.
-Steve[/quote]
Honestly I think the most important diagnostic tool is the one between your ears. What you state speaks to that. I also agree, it is a good feeling when you’re able to figure something out with very little backstory. It also builds your skill set.
Thanks for your input.
[quote=”Rereonehundred” post=98832]Diagnosis with respect to automotive technology is a fascinating process and a necessary process. Guessing just doesn’t cut it.
I cut my diagnostic teeth on a 1966 VW Beetle, and I still apply the things I learned from this car.
Even with OBDII, and all the resources available to us, fundamentally correct understanding is required.
After all, the car is by far the most complex and multi-technology item the average person will ever own. And fixing such a technological item by guesswork is somewhere between inefficient and impossible.[/quote]
I agree. An understanding of the basic systems is key to effective diagnosis. Thanks for your input.
Very good video! Thank you for that. In my opinion, it applies to all kinds of diagnostics, for instance in IT (now guess what I do for a living ;)).
Watching the video actually made me think of Sherlock Holmes. He put it like this: “It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.“
[quote=”Norman” post=99037]Very good video! Thank you for that. In my opinion, it applies to all kinds of diagnostics, for instance in IT (now guess what I do for a living ;)).
Watching the video actually made me think of Sherlock Holmes. He put it like this: “It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.“[/quote]
Very good point. I like those words.
well i can tell you from experience Eric when i was a young technician i would get so excited too fix something i would forget too diagnose, and my instructor had too correct me so many times. sometimes even on here i catch myself wanting too say, THIS PART BROKEN REPLACE! then i have too press the brakes and go STOP, check battery voltage first!
with that being said with todays vehicles the electronics on them even if you know the pattern failures of a vehicle it is SUPER critical that the technician diagnoses the issue even when he may think he knows what the issue is, a few times i would get eager and jump the gun and just replace this part because this part can cause this issue, but so can this part, and this part, and this part, and this part, and this part too… and when it is all said and done it really helps too be able to plug a scan tool into your vehicle and go hey this code says there is something funky going on with this part here saying something funny.
Example 3800 engine in a old Buick Regal comes in when owner drives car it trailer hitches and bucks and the MIL blinks! i confirm this myself and verify his findings, plug a scan tool in find codes and see live data B1S2 downstream sensor says 1.036V and i go HOLY CRAP RICH CONDITION! then put together the fact i have missfire code for P0302 and P0305 with codes screaming i have a rich condition, and notice the engine is running like crap and pull plugs from cylinder 2 and 5 and figure out they smell like gas and are black and look at the ignition coil on the middle of the set of ignition coils that share cylinder 2 and 5 and then check for spark from that ignition coil buy checking spark at cylinder 2 and 5 finding out there is no spark at neither cylinder 2 or 5 so i replace the ignition coil and the engine runs like a champ! i could assume it was a bad O2 sensor, i could assume it was a bad catalitic converter, i could assume the spark plugs where crap, i could assume bad fuel injectors, i could assume bad wires, but i took the time too look at things and a $40 part saves the owners day!
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