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My son and I plan on pulling a Mazda 2.3L engine soon to swap out the oil eating, rod knocking, dud that’s in his car presently. This will be his and my first engine pull and replacement. My auto repair knowledge is intermediate and I’m pretty confident that we can get it done without too many issues.
The yard provides a hoist and the cars on on rims. I’ll list tests that I assume are good prior to pulling an engine however, please provide more suggestion and/or tips .1) Manually cranked compression test; My concern with this one is that by EPA laws all fluids are removed from engine/vehicle before parts can be removed and sold. If that is the case could manually cranking an engine (for compression test) cause scoring on internal parts such as crank, pistons, bearings?
2) Leakdown Test: Obviously one of the most comprehensive test but, does it find loose tolerances that leads to oil consumption?
3) Visually inspect intake manifold, throttle body, exhaust manifold ports and spark plugs for signs of high oil consumption . Excessive buildup in intake ports and cylinder head intake ports could mean excessive oil consumption
4) Inspect spark plugs for coolant, lean or rich fuel condition, oil on threads: valve cover + spark plug tube gaskets breach.
5) Move each piston just past TDC on downstroke and use a long flathead screwdriver to test for rod knock . Same concern for manually cranking engine listed on #1.
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Replies
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[quote=”Johnny Glass” post=164132]My son and I plan on pulling a Mazda 2.3L engine soon to swap out the oil eating, rod knocking, dud that’s in his car presently. This will be his and my first engine pull and replacement. My auto repair knowledge is intermediate and I’m pretty confident that we can get it done without too many issues.
The yard provides a hoist and the cars on on rims. I’ll list tests that I assume are good prior to pulling an engine however, please provide more suggestion and/or tips .1) Manually cranked compression test; My concern with this one is that by EPA laws all fluids are removed from engine/vehicle before parts can be removed and sold. If that is the case could manually cranking an engine (for compression test) cause scoring on internal parts such as crank, pistons, bearings?
2) Leakdown Test: Obviously one of the most comprehensive test but, does it find loose tolerances that leads to oil consumption?
3) Visually inspect intake manifold, throttle body, exhaust manifold ports and spark plugs for signs of high oil consumption . Excessive buildup in intake ports and cylinder head intake ports could mean excessive oil consumption
4) Inspect spark plugs for coolant, lean or rich fuel condition, oil on threads: valve cover + spark plug tube gaskets breach.
5) Move each piston just past TDC on downstroke and use a long flathead screwdriver to test for rod knock . Same concern for manually cranking engine listed on #1.[/quote]
1. If you manually crank the engine, chances are there is still enough oil on all the moving parts as to not cause any damage.
2. Leak down. Are you bringing an air compressor with you? Leak down can tell you where you have issues. Always some air will escape past the rings.
3. Oil in intake… if it has high mileage, chance are some will be there.
4. Inspection of spark plugs, yes can give you indicators.
5. Checking for rod knock. Probably cant spin the engine fast enough manually to notice rod knock, but your screwdriver test may let you know if it suffers this condition.
Buying a salvage engine is always a bit of a crapshoot, especially if you have not heard it run. All salvage engines I pull, I just rebuild.Since it is all out, it is easy to do.
Good luck and have fun!
-Karl
[quote=”ToyotaKarl” post=164137][quote=”Johnny Glass” post=164132]My son and I plan on pulling a Mazda 2.3L engine soon to swap out the oil eating, rod knocking, dud that’s in his car presently. This will be his and my first engine pull and replacement. My auto repair knowledge is intermediate and I’m pretty confident that we can get it done without too many issues.
The yard provides a hoist and the cars on on rims. I’ll list tests that I assume are good prior to pulling an engine however, please provide more suggestion and/or tips .1) Manually cranked compression test; My concern with this one is that by EPA laws all fluids are removed from engine/vehicle before parts can be removed and sold. If that is the case could manually cranking an engine (for compression test) cause scoring on internal parts such as crank, pistons, bearings?
2) Leakdown Test: Obviously one of the most comprehensive test but, does it find loose tolerances that leads to oil consumption?
3) Visually inspect intake manifold, throttle body, exhaust manifold ports and spark plugs for signs of high oil consumption . Excessive buildup in intake ports and cylinder head intake ports could mean excessive oil consumption
4) Inspect spark plugs for coolant, lean or rich fuel condition, oil on threads: valve cover + spark plug tube gaskets breach.
5) Move each piston just past TDC on downstroke and use a long flathead screwdriver to test for rod knock . Same concern for manually cranking engine listed on #1.[/quote]
[quote=”ToyotaKarl” post=164137]Buying a salvage engine is always a bit of a crapshoot, especially if you have not heard it run. All salvage engines I pull, I just rebuild.Since it is all out, it is easy to do.[/quote]
Thanks Karl.
I’ve never tried to rebuild an engine, My brother has rebuilt three so far and if I go that route he could help or guide me through it. My biggest concern would be getting the clearences (ex: main bearings) correct. During your rebuilds do you use a micrometer, bore gauge. calipers, etc..?When it comes to all the measurements, I don’t even bother. I take it to my machine shop and he does all that for me. I can do all that stuff, but it is not necessary unless you see noticeable damage (gouges in cylinder or journals of a crank)
When doing a rebuild a few key things are to ensure:
1. the piston ring gap is the proper size (may have to grind them down). The ring gap is easy, push the ring into the cylinder and use a feeler gauge, if too small, there is a grinding tool that costs about $20-$30 and you just grind them (try grinding a ring by hand with a file and you will see why a grinding tool is so nice), fit them, check gap, grind again if necessary till they fit.
2. The bearings are correct. The machine shop can help you with this. Since I work on Toyotas they are coded. There is a code on the engine block and a code on the crank to let you know their sizes, You add up these numbers and it will tell you the proper size bearing to use. If the crank is ground, the machine shop can let you know what size bearings to use. A machine shop can also clean the block and the parts on the block for a nominal fee. Depending on if your crank needs ground, or you need the cylinders bored will effect your cost. I expect to spend anywhere from $200-$450 in machine work when rebuilding a Toyota 1ZZ-FE (Corolla engine)
3. I don’t screw with heads. I am a fan of Cylinder heads international. http://www.headsonly.com/
http://www.shop.headsonly.com/MAZDA_c19.htm
I have yet to find anyplace that can rebuild them cheaper than I can get a rebuilt one from them. You buy the head, they ship it, you put your old head in the box and ship it back (they even send a return postage sticker, so it is covered). And they have a warranty.4. Parts from Ebay, There are a lot of parts for Toyotas online (not sure about Mazda). I get my new head bolts (stretch bolts), VVT phaser, rebuild kit (chain, tensioner, piston heads, rings, bearings, oil pump, gaskets and so on there). I spend about $450 in parts on rebuilding an average 1ZZ-FE engine.
Patience is key to rebuilding an engine. Ask all the questions you want of the machine shop guys, they can help and be your best friends. A torque wrench is also an absolute must. A torque angle gauge may be required if your torque specs call for an angle after reaching a designated torque (I.E. 80 Ft lbs with 90 degrees)
No doubt about it, rebuilding an engine can be costly. May not be financially worth it to do so, but if you half step things (I.E. just replace rings or bearings without machine work, your expense you put into that could be ruined if the crank needed ground, or the cylinders needed re-bored)
As Eric has said many times, he does not recommend beginners do rebuilds. He recommends just to buy a re manufactured engine, to some degree I agree with him, however there is nothing like doing it yourself and learning about the process. Can be a fun event to work as a father-son team. One thing is for sure, you both will never forget it.
I have been meaning to post photos/tutorial of my rebuilds.. Maybe will do that soon if I get some time.
Good luck
-Karl
I am, to say the least, old school so I will point that out up front. Using used engines seems to be much more common these days, because there is much less call for engine rebuilding than there was 30 or 40 years ago. As a result there aren’t as many people that are comfortable with it. I think that has a lot to do with why folks prefer used engines.
All that said, I much prefer to repair or rebuild a rebuildable (no rods sticking out the side or some such) engine that I know the history of, than going to all the trouble to put in an engine I know nothing about. In fact, if I were using a used engine, I don’t think I could do it without pulling the head and pan and doing a little exploratory surgery before using the engine. If I’m going to do that, I might as well tear into the existing engine and see what can be done with it.
In the old days, in frame overhauls were common place and almost normal maintenance. This meant bearings, rings and a valve job. Now days most engines go hundreds of thousands of miles with no internal repair. If anything at all is needed, it might need a head gasket and maybe a valve job while the head is off. The engines below the head gaskets usually go forever if even moderately maintained.
Of course, at the same time, this means that there is a better chance of getting a usable engine from the salvage yard. I think if I were to evaluate a salvage yard engine I would take the aircraft engine approach and cut the oil filter open to check for metal. If the engine is making metal, obviously it is one to leave behind. If you can bring an air compressor with you for a leak down test, that would be worthwhile. Also look at the vehicle it came out of. If it is wrecked, but appears that it was not a neglected car, that might be a good sign that it had a better chance of seeing regular maintenance. Also, try to determine if the engine shows any signs of fluid leaks that weren’t results of the crash. This might be difficult.
Hope this rambling helps in some way.
Since my most important suggestion got buried in the last post, let me put it here so that you don’t miss it:
CUT OPEN THE OIL FILTER AND INSPECT FOR METAL. If there is metal in the oil filter, leave that engine behind.
Hope this helps.
Funny. I’ve shot and edited a video on this very topic. I’m just waiting on approval and the time to post it.
Look for vehicles there were in a collision. It’s reasonable to assume the engine was running when it died.
Spin the crank 360º to make sure it can.
Check the plugs for obvious signs of an issue.
Look under the oil cap to see if there is buildup or signs of neglect. If you find any, move on.
Good luck.
[quote=”EricTheCarGuy” post=164282]Funny. I’ve shot and edited a video on this very topic. I’m just waiting on approval and the time to post it.
Look for vehicles there were in a collision. It’s reasonable to assume the engine was running when it died.
Spin the crank 360º to make sure it can.
Check the plugs for obvious signs of an issue.
Look under the oil cap to see if there is buildup or signs of neglect. If you find any, move on.
Good luck.[/quote]
Thanks Eric and look forward to your video if/when it comes out.
The current engine may be salvagable and we’ll know more when we get the cylinder head off to inspect for leaky valves and valve stem seals.
Weller Auto Parts breaks the spark plugs after pulling the engine out of the wrecked vehicle.I seen some they cut the electrode off and reinstall the spark plugs right back into the engine.One yard in my area,you don’t ever buy an used engine from.They pull it out from the vehicle and put a tag on it saying should be good.My dad knows,he put in 6 engines from them in an Olds Cutlass that were no good.
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