Tapping noise ONLY at idle 2000 3.8 ford Windstar

[Oscar Lopez]

Hi guys, new member here!

Am an amateur DIY and normally good at diagnosing problem but this thing can’t seem to give me a break LOL. I look forward to help other people as well.

We have been using 15w40 oil for years on this minivan and never had a problem. I know it’s too thick for these engines but we don’t get such low temperature as people up north.

So you’ll see, I decided it was time to change the oil, it was a bit over due, and decided to switch to 5w30 to see if there was any difference and to make the things the right way from now and on; well, there is actually a BIG difference, the engine isn’t as loud as before, and the new fluid and filter (both motorcraft) made a tapping sound I had on cold starts go away, after many years with it!.

It idles great, runs quieter and has a 30% better fuel economy. What else coud somebody ask? This is where the ugly part comes. I don’t know if I hadn’t noticed before because the engine was noisier or what, but now I can hear a tapping noise at HOT idle, it seems to go away if I rev the engine. It’s running OK, hasn’t taken any oil and there is no smoke coming out from the tailpipe; as I said the noise is only present after after a few miles of reaching normal temperature.

I don’t have much experience with these things, I don’t know if it could be a lifter, a valve, rings, timing chain or what else!. I only get some occasional misfires and the LTFT for bank 1 goes up to 18+ from time to time.

I’ve made a few videos of it under different situations; it seems more noticeable at the passenger side, where the timing cover is.

VIDEO 1
VIDEO 2
VIDEO 3
VIDEO 4
VIDEO 5

They all are links to youtube.

I’ve replaced the tensioner pulley as it was making some grinding noise and was told that the tensioner could be making the noise but I don’t see it move at all while at idle. Other guy told me it could be a bad timing chain or tensioner. I tried listening to it with a mechanics stethoscope and it is more noticeable at the timing cover and also probing on the oil filter. On these engines the camshaft drives the CMP synchro which at the same time drives the oil pump.

I also know that the camshaft synchronizer is a common failure item on these engines, but the videos I’ve seen have a totally different constant noise so I don’t think that’s my problem.

Thanks in advance for any input, I would like to avoid having to remove the front cover as it is a nightmare on these engines…

Oscar.

Topic

[Oscar Lopez]

[quote=”ridinred24″ post=51813]I think narrowing it down via a heavier oil would be a great place to start, then you will know whether its valve train or timing chain. Good luck![/quote]

Thank you. I wonder if you could please explain how would that rule it out, I’m still no very good at this kind of problems and would like to know. I would think that switching to a heavier oil would increase pressure in the entire system which would also pump the tensioner on the chain some more, also masking the slack on the chain.

I must say that we used to use 15w40 for this engine and never had any tapping noises; it all started when I switched to 5w30 as the manual states. Would that mean anything to you?

Oscar.

[EricTheCarGuy]

It’s unfortunate you ran it with the thicker oil for as long as you did. NEVER run any oil other than what the oil cap or oil chart calls for. Manufacturers do extensive testing in all kinds of temperatures before they commit to the oil viscosity so always run when the manufacturer tells you to.

That said as you’ve figured out by now you probably need lifters. No, they are not adjustable. The reason I suspect they went bad is because when you run thicker oil you can actually starve the top end of the engine (lifters) for oil during start up. This will cause them to wear out prematurely. It gets worse. You can’t just replace a set of lifters. You would also need to change out the cam shaft at the same time as lifters and cams are machined together with the lifters as a matched set. Replace just one part and you’ll wear out the other. Unfortunately you probably won’t be able to remove the cam with the engine still in the vehicle because of how it’s located in the engine bay.

All that said, you might just leave things alone. You can drive with noisy lifters for the life of the vehicle if you can put up with it. You might notice a slight loss of performance but I think that would be negligible compared to what you’d have to do to fix it.

In the future, use the correct oil as called for by the manufacturer for longest engine life.

[Oscar Lopez]

Hi Eric,

First of all thank you for being such a cool dude!

I appreciate your input. I still haven’t ruled out the lifters as being the cause, but it surely is. I haven’t had enough time to dig into it.

I was told that since the Windstar uses roller type lifters, they can be replaced independently from the camshaft and that I should have no problems on replacing either only the bad ones or all of them.

This engine overheated twice, the first time we replaced the lifters but the second we didn’t. Maybe this is the cause of the original damage.

What do you think?

Oscar.

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